L.A. School District Cancels iPad Pearson Curriculum, Asks Apple for Refund

[pjamieson]

I've REALLY tried to like the Google platform, but it just doesn't get the job done for me. Chromebooks are a three year ago tech. We are considering ( currently testing ) HP Stream Pro 11" for 1 to 1. We have some old school techs that fear the 2GB Ram, but IMHO the SSD more than makes up for it. The small drive space prevents users from installing hacking software like Kali, Coffee, ect and we can remotely manage them. All for about $225 each. If we could get curriculum and the State to adopt free digital textbooks we would save the county millions. Lofty goals, on deaf ears.

Only issues with a windows based device is the ability to mess it up to the point it becomes a useless device. Yes, you could lock it down with say Faronics Deep Freeze, and A/V up the ying-yang, but these costs add up and could be circumvented. The nice thing about ChromeBooks is the clean efficient look and feel you get, and the ability to lock them down remotely.
I feel your pain dealing with Gov issues and the lack of $$ to put into place the needed technologies to get the correct solutions.
Just for what it is worth, the KhanAcademy (I am sure that you have heard about them) have resources to help school boards with implementation plans, and they are non-profit.

 

[SteveW928]

This is/was a PILOT scheme...this means it is the first and is likely to have problems...This would be like using a BETA version and complaining that it doesn't fully work...It would be like testing a game in development and complaining that the graphics are not great or it's not fully rendered...

I bet Pearsons got paid. While it might have been a pilot, I'm not sure that's the same as a beta program, and it certainly shouldn't be a 'take the money and run' program.

 

[SteveW928]

What else is new? A public school squandering money that belongs to taxpayers with some pie in the sky program. A compete joke, much like public education in general. We spend more than anywhere on Earth on education and continually come in WAY down the ladder as far as results go versus other countries.

Regardless, too much of the money is wasted for sure. That is the core of the problem in terms of school funding alone. That said, the real core of the problem is societal, not schools. Schools are being expected to take un-parented kids, in a very broken society, and magically fix them. And, there isn't enough money in the world to toss in to plug the gaping hole as the ship sinks.

It's the bloated and untouchable unions that cause much of the grief but that's for another argument.

Yea, that is a whole other issue, but certainly part of the problem. But, my gut tells me that problems like this are farther upstream.

As others have noted....why does little Johnny need an iPad to learn? Get them a few workstations for the classroom and stop trying to pamper them with tech gadgets. Ugh.

Yea, I hear you there. There is one camp that thinks just giving them cool things will make them more likely to learn. I suppose that's true as far as it goes... but it's kind of like offering a kid candy to get them to eat their supper. It, like above, is trying to plug a much larger hole. Kids in many other countries would give about anything just for the opportunity to get an education.

But, even with my own son, he does love using an iPad, and self-taught himself a bunch of stuff even before he started school. I know part of that is just him, but I do have to wonder if he would have learned that stuff otherwise. So, I think there is merit to that idea too... but I suppose I have questions on the cost-tradeoffs. (But, kind of like companies buying a cheapo PC vs a Mac... that cost difference is EASILY made back in productivity differences.)

On other other hand, there is a lot of merit in the idea of not having to lug dozens of out-of-date text books around when we have the technology to have up-to-date stuff available in one little device. It truly would be a revolution in education materials if it can be pulled off.

Part way though grad-school, I switched to Kindle-based books when I could get them. I LOVED having them all with me... searchable.. etc. And that is just using standard books in a digital format. To have updated texts by the best people available and always up-to-date would be a great thing.

 

[SteveW928]

Companies, like Pearson, seem to want ebooks to fail.

I don't know why, but it reminds me of the newspapers ignorance over the rise of the internet.

I think that's a great point. They aren't going to go along with this new model until they figure out a way to make equal or more money from it than they do with print books. And, they've been able to just keep the money flowing without having to do all the new work involved in properly moving to this new method.

Subscription based books DO NOT work. I've done several surveys and the book must be on the device.

Yea, I'm not sure about within schools, but I know personally, I won't buy an informational (or entertainment) product that is subscription based unless it's something pretty frivolous. I want my music, movies I really like, and books available 20 years from now just as much as tomorrow.

Most educators simply don't understand how our students learn today. They continue to push the 'god on a podium' model and continually get in the way of our students' learning. Teachers today should be facilitators; they should state the standards and let the students do the research, guide them when necessary, assist in looking up answers when two facts seem to collide.

I agree. But, much of that problem starts with parenting and the messages kids get in our society every day. Today, the model has mostly reversed where everyone exists to serve the 'little gods.' If they truly craved education, the 'god on the podium' model would at least still work fairly well, even if there are better ways. It worked pretty well up until recently.

But, I agree on other models. For example, my son just started in a Montessori program, and depending on personality, I think that is going to work out really well. The kids coming out of those places are, on average, far ahead of other kids in knowing how to interact with the real-world, take responsibility for their learning, etc.

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It's taking school teaching by storm ..
https://www.google.com/edu/

The problem there is Google... they pretty much half-@$$ everything.

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whereas you could distribute the same information through a website supported only by ads.

Oh God, please no!!!!! The LAST thing we need is education supported by ad revenue. The corporations already have about every other waking moment of kids attention cornered.

 

[Spectrum]

Not to reignite an old thread...but...(I just saw this quote notification)...

I understand you point of view, however, I think programming is a relatively unique field of learning, where the student searching for information is able to readily test its accuracy by actually trying out the code and checking whether it produces the desired output. Speaking from a scientist's perspective: in programming, one is able to test the facts that you have read for their accuracy. In many other fields of study this is simply not possible, and even if it is, it may not be practical. For example, if one were to read that the number of genes or nucleotides or cells in the human body is X - and if it is an important fact that this is correct - how are you going to reasonably check the factual accuracy of such a statement experimentally? It simply isn't practical to do so, hence requiring a much higher degree of care and attention, and triple-checking of facts prior to their publication.

It is also important that errors and amendments aren't invisibly edited - thereby ensuring that anyone that may have been exposed/used to a factual inaccuracy can see what was changed and when.

The only difference guaranteed when you choose to publish a book instead of a website is that it will definitely cost you far more money to publish the book. As a result, you'll have to charge people if you publish a book, whereas you could distribute the same information through a website supported only by ads. You're not guaranteed to produce higher quality work. The same exact checks and balances you could do when publishing a book, you could do when publishing a website.

Such checks are not required by either books or websites.

I used to be in the same boat as you, thinking books were somehow magically better, until I discovered two things:

1 - Crappy books full of mistakes. The specific one in my case was "Teach Yourself Java in 24 Hours". I paid $30 for it at B&N.

2 - Stack Overflow (and the rest of the Stack Exchange network). Plus Learn <programming languages> the Hard Way. These websites made me realize that it's absolutely possible l to have high quality information freely available on the web.

 

[ArtOfWarfare]

It is also important that errors and amendments aren't invisibly edited - thereby ensuring that anyone that may have been exposed/used to a factual inaccuracy can see what was changed and when.

This is a true point, which is another reason why web resources are generally better than books.

Wikis and Stack Exchanges allow you to easily browse the edit history of a page. You can see who exactly made the edit, when they made the edit, how reputable they are, and what sources they based their changes on.

Books and other printed materials, on the other hand, do not. You can have a book full of mistakes. You might be able to find out about mistakes in it if the book has a website (big if) that logs errata. Alternatively, you could spend more money to buy a newer edition of the book (if there is one - publishing another edition requires the publisher to spend even more money than just reprinting the old one) which might have an errata section which will tell you about mistakes from past editions. That errata section will never update itself, though. The errata section is, itself, on paper, and could also contain mistakes.

The unique part about programming isn't that we can easily verify the things we read about. There are some things in programming that can't be verified without access to a super computer. There are things in other fields which can be just as easily verified at home as the easy things in programming.

No, the unique part is that people who are programming tend to be computer-savvy enough to know how to put what they know on the internet. They tend to know how Wikis, Stack Exchanges, Forums, IRCs, Blogs, and other communication tools on the internet work.

If you think some information should be on the internet and it isn't, you should put it there.

 

[s2mikey]

Regardless, too much of the money is wasted for sure. That is the core of the problem in terms of school funding alone. That said, the real core of the problem is societal, not schools. Schools are being expected to take un-parented kids, in a very broken society, and magically fix them. And, there isn't enough money in the world to toss in to plug the gaping hole as the ship sinks.

Yea, that is a whole other issue, but certainly part of the problem. But, my gut tells me that problems like this are farther upstream.

Yea, I hear you there. There is one camp that thinks just giving them cool things will make them more likely to learn. I suppose that's true as far as it goes... but it's kind of like offering a kid candy to get them to eat their supper. It, like above, is trying to plug a much larger hole. Kids in many other countries would give about anything just for the opportunity to get an education.

But, even with my own son, he does love using an iPad, and self-taught himself a bunch of stuff even before he started school. I know part of that is just him, but I do have to wonder if he would have learned that stuff otherwise. So, I think there is merit to that idea too... but I suppose I have questions on the cost-tradeoffs. (But, kind of like companies buying a cheapo PC vs a Mac... that cost difference is EASILY made back in productivity differences.)

On other other hand, there is a lot of merit in the idea of not having to lug dozens of out-of-date text books around when we have the technology to have up-to-date stuff available in one little device. It truly would be a revolution in education materials if it can be pulled off.

Part way though grad-school, I switched to Kindle-based books when I could get them. I LOVED having them all with me... searchable.. etc. And that is just using standard books in a digital format. To have updated texts by the best people available and always up-to-date would be a great thing.

All great points here, for sure. Well stated. I hate feeling like I harp on the teachers because they are the workhorses and should get decent salaries and benefits. But, it just drives you bonkers with the waste and everything else that you have zero control over even though you are funding it.

I love the idea of textbooks being a thing of the past and having it all on a kindle or whatever. Huge money and hassle saver.

Either way, it's a very difficult mess to solve. Especially as you mention how there are parents who simply don't place any value on education or refuse to get involved. The school is their day care center and nanny all in one. Very convenient but extremely ineffective at raising the kids properly, IMO.

 

[JustThinkin']

All great points here, for sure. Well stated. I hate feeling like I harp on the teachers because they are the workhorses and should get decent salaries and benefits. But, it just drives you bonkers with the waste and everything else that you have zero control over even though you are funding it.

I love the idea of textbooks being a thing of the past and having it all on a kindle or whatever. Huge money and hassle saver.

Either way, it's a very difficult mess to solve. Especially as you mention how there are parents who simply don't place any value on education or refuse to get involved. The school is their day care center and nanny all in one. Very convenient but extremely ineffective at raising the kids properly, IMO.

Maybe that's a good idea - to start off on a smaller scale. Certainly the promise of a "do almost anything" device like a laptop or tablet - even decades into the technology - still requires carefully defining a disciplined approach with a (probably narrow) set of expectations.

Quite frankly, while I'm generally in favor of using Apple devices in education, with a budget as big as LAUSDs they probably could have done better. Although it wouldn't have been as "cool," they could custom build a reasonably locked-down OS based on available (and possibly free) code, and run it on something relatively stable and affordable like Google Nexus hardware.

They need to plan for relatively quick obsolescence (so don't spend too much on the hardware) and create software that will fairly easily move over to the next generation.


And less "attractive" hardware with a custom OS would also reduce the temptation to steal them, as well as reduce the actual dollar loss if they are stolen.


I don't think Apple wants this market badly enough anymore; if they did, they could probably take control of the entire process and create something super.

 

[Doctor Q]

Maybe that's a good idea - to start off on a smaller scale.

Interestingly, that's how it has worked out. They bit off more than they could chew (trying to re-outfit the entire district), failed, and ended up equipping only a small percentage of district schools that happened to be in the first implementation round.

Quite frankly, while I'm generally in favor of using Apple devices in education, with a budget as big as LAUSDs they probably could have done better. Although it wouldn't have been as "cool," they could custom build a reasonably locked-down OS based on available (and possibly free) code, and run it on something relatively stable and affordable like Google Nexus hardware.

Given LAUSD's record with large software projects (example 1, example 2), I wouldn't trust the district to produce their own software platform, even based on well-known standards.

The idea of combining educational materials (what Pearson Education is supposedly good at) and off-the-shelf Apple or Google equipment, with LAUSD as the coordinating entity, made sense and had great promise, but it couldn't survive the overpromises, lack of coordination, glitches, and bad publicity.

I think it's fine to try again, on a smaller scale, trying different approaches at different schools. That's how we'll find out what works in practice. And I wouldn't be surprised at all if high schools find one solution and elementary schools find a very different solution.

 

[JustThinkin']

Given LAUSD's record with large software projects (example 1, example 2), I wouldn't trust the district to produce their own software platform, even based on well-known standards.

They can't all be idiots. Neither of these examples seems all that bad, given the context. In fact, I would actually expect the new student system to have problems in the first week. The district simply wouldn't invest in truly comprehensive testing ahead of time.

Someone competent, caring, in-corrupt, and mostly non-political needs to take charge and make it work.

The idea of combining educational materials (what Pearson Education is supposedly good at) and off-the-shelf Apple or Google equipment, with LAUSD as the coordinating entity, made sense and had great promise, but it couldn't survive the overpromises, lack of coordination, glitches, and bad publicity.

My understanding is that Pearson was awful with electronic curriculum - at least at this point in time.

LAUSD needed to do more than just coordinate. I suspect they didn't plan their infrastructure and environment (both human and electronic) well enough.


And maybe Pearson wasn't motivated enough to make it a big success. Common sense would tell you they probably hadn't figured out how to adequately migrate their revenue streams over to the new technology. If they had figured out how to increase their long-term revenue through this project they would have hired the right people.