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iMerik

macrumors 6502a
May 3, 2011
666
522
Upper Midwest
My wife is a teacher and the iPad can be a useful tool in improving education.

That said, it is not a tool for every student in every classroom. The two programs she has participated in came to the same conclusions:

The iPad is great for teachers as a personal tool as it allows them to move around the room freely while 'Airplaying' to a common large screen.

The iPad is also great for very high and very low (academically) classrooms, for various reasons that I could write an essay.

However, if a school district is determined to put technology in the hands of every student, the best solution is often....ready....a Chromebook. It gives most students access to everything they need to be more successful in the classroom. Research, (some) textbooks, YouTube (yes, there are plenty of educational videos on YouTube), Google Docs for reports, etc.

AND with all that, if the districts do not train their teachers to properly use these tools, and some don't, it's a big waste of money. It's not the teacher's abilities you should question. It's the district's choice of tools and training.
I agree. I have a Chromebook for casual browsing, and I think it makes so much more sense for students than an iPad... as long as the core content the teachers need is available and not stuck in Apple app world.
 

TallManNY

macrumors 601
Nov 5, 2007
4,742
1,594
I agree. At this point in time (and space!) iPads are just a toy, a way to show the parents that the school system is advanced and leading children to a bright new future.
As much as iPads are cool - I am surprised that there is no ePad by Apple - I think that a kid would learn more useful things from a Raspberry Pi rather than an iPad (or any other tablet).

Well Toy is a bit of strong term. I use my iPad for work all the time. But then my work involves reading documents. So when I'm out of the office, it is the best device when I get an email with a document attached. But it is a luxury work devices at its current price point. Especially when you also need to have a full PC as well to get some stuff done.

I think my main issue is that since kids are already looking at screens for huge parts of the day, we shouldn't be spending extra to increase these amounts.

Full tablet incorporation is going to come to schools and to all of us in the not too distant future. But it isn't there now.
 

tdtran1025

macrumors 6502
Dec 26, 2011
275
0
What a bunch of whining losers! Now the students have nothing, going back to lugging 30lbs of gear.
Here is something the Samsung camp could jump in to defend their tablets, only to find that for reasons of security and administation, the tablets would be locked down so tight to prevent tweaking or rooting. That would leave the tablet from Samsung so inferior to iPad in every which way. Besides, Apple is an American company!
I, however, agree about Pearson. They do have a lock on contents because they have been at it for so long. Their eTexts reach beyond K12. We do need more competition in this area.
The purchase price of an iPad is about the cost of buying just books for 1 curriculum materials for 1 year; this is a huge saving. Additionally, the price covers 3yr warranty; the contents are upgradable(revisions) every year for a minor fee. I don't see how we can lose.
The school then can enforce strict policies on "no locker, no back pack" minus the lunch bags if students opt for bringing their own lunches.
Lest I forget, kids have to leave phones at home. The only drawback is classrooms have to be equipped with quickcharge wireless charging stations. These kids will look for every reason to get out of turning in homework.
 

sputnikv

macrumors 6502a
Oct 3, 2009
507
3,187
And yet nobody blinks twice when professional sports teams toss around hundreds of millions on a 25-man roster.

"Professional sport teams" and school districts don't go together. Perhaps you were thinking about something else.
 

BuffaloTF

macrumors 68000
Jun 10, 2008
1,768
2,232
Because that's PRIVATE money. Schools are PUBLIC money, huge difference.

What professional teams and leagues do you speak of, using private money? Taxpayers foot their bills with billion dollar stadiums and watch them pay a pittance in rent, while having multiple-hundred million dollar revenues. Santa Clara secured 950 million dollars of financing for the 49ers stadium. The 49ers will pay 25 million per year for rent... all while the NFL enjoys a tax-exempt, "non-profit" organization status. Annually, across the board, the NFL alone eclipses more than 1 billion dollars in subsidies and tax favors.

Investing in education leads to students with higher earning potentials, increasing the tax base. A 1 billion dollar stadium loses money from the tax base, and there's interest payments.

So yeah -- there is a difference. One gets tax money to improve already-wealthy owners bottom lines. The others get tax money to improve lives and build a stronger workforce.
 

captain cadet

macrumors 6502
Sep 2, 2012
417
648
As a student I struggle to find uses for my iPad in my studies. i brought my iPad 3 the day it came out to try to help it with my studies but i cannot find a use for it even now. Okay its all day battery life is great but the office sweet sucks compared to my Laptop system (I use Onedrive as its the only thing i can log into in the college as iCloud is blocked).
There is no education apps which
My laptop can do Office, so can my iPad, my laptop can run software my iPad cannot. My Laptop is my only option now and its 4 years old (although still works good) I sometimes wish i didnt buy a iPad and got a new Laptop instead.
Maybe this is only because i am studing in a specilist subject which could cause the problem?
But still its annoying the lack of education apps out there!
 

tigres

macrumors 601
Aug 31, 2007
4,213
1,326
Land of the Free-Waiting for Term Limits
The public American school system is fairly laughable in many parts of the nation. Teachers are only able to do so much before they're blocked by the administration that signs their paychecks. It is not terrible everywhere, but it certainly could use a lot of improvement.

I think it needs to be re-invented from the ground up; the entire k-12 edu system that is.
 

2010mini

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2013
4,698
4,806
Professional sports teams with money from seasons passes, tickets, accessories, toys, clothing, games, overpriced food/alcohol, etc and public schools that are paid for with taxes are two completely different things

And don't forget taxpayer money to build stadiums for those professional teams. Stadiums that the city/state has to ask permission to use.

Oh and let's no forget taxpayer money to subsidize the team's rent when they suck so bad, they can't sell out games.
 

yaxomoxay

macrumors 604
Mar 3, 2010
7,410
34,212
Texas
Well Toy is a bit of strong term. I use my iPad for work all the time.

I meant in a school setting, sorry if I wasn't clear.
The problem is that tablets are aids that will NOT teach anyone how to work, how to prioritize, and how to be organized. I am not against tablets in schools, they are a tool exactly as a fountain pen. However, I am noticing a dangerous trend, where more and more is left to technology and less to an actual understanding of conceptual teaching and "free" reasoning. With an iPad the student might lose some abilities to work around problems (ok, same goes for computers, but those are not that intrusive in schools).

Another dangerous trend I see is that kids are thought how to play stuff on their iPad but have no clue what a computer system is. No clue on RAM, Operating System and so on. If a school district decides to use computers extensively, then I think that it is IMPERATIVE to teach what serious computing is, starting from Kindergarten.

EDIT: and BTW I would love to see BASIC classes in fourth to sixth grade. Good old BASIC, with all its beauty and defects.
 

RangerOne

macrumors regular
Jan 9, 2009
127
81
California
What about math, English, and history need to be up-to-date? I went to an excellent high school, and we had plenty of books from the 70s. And no freaking iPads or digitized textbooks.

On my digital textbook of a 70's book, I can highlight text for review later, using one of several colors (so I can classify notes), and can attach a text note to the highlight. I can do this with a physical book, of course, but it takes more time (to highlight and to write text by hand) and unless I'm doing it in a separate notebook, I'm also destroying the book for other users (not to mention the trees it took to produce the book, the mercury the paper plant dumped into the river, etc).

In the digital copy, I can also view all the notes for an entire book all together rather than paging through 600 pages, and can print those notes or copy/paste the notes between my iDevices and my computer. Those books and all the notes I make therein are automatically synchronized between all my iDevices and iBooks on the Mac, so I literally have my entire library with me wherever I go... at work, at home, on the train, waiting at the DMV, sitting in another class, in the park, at the beach, on vacation, etc. And that iDevice weighs a heck of a lot less than just about any textbook, and because I can store hundreds or even thousands of textbooks on one device, they are always available and I don't need a truck to move them from place to place.

Within a given book, I can search the entire book for a word or phrase. I can share selected text via email, text message, social media, etc. And I can define a word and find synonyms just by holding my finger on a word I'm unfamiliar with. I can watch videos or listen to historic audio such as the 1969 moon landing or a re-creation of the Gettysburg Address. I can interact with 3d models. I can navigate through maps. I can take interactive quizzes. I can take end-of-chapter practice tests to make sure I learned what I was supposed to learn.

And while content updates are more common in some subjects vs others, nearly all subjects can use them:

Math: While formulas may not change that often, there are new theorems and proofs coming out all the time. And more importantly, the WAY math is taught changes rather fluidly. A digital book isn't just about displaying a formula, it's about interactively showing the student how to understand what's happening as that formula is worked. Imagine: Instead of showing a student an example of a graphed rational function, give them an iBook that lets them change the factors and the formula his/herself, to see the effect on the graph interactively. Can't do that with a 1970 math textbook.

English: Try learning grammar using printed rules in a textbook, then pop open an app that interactively teaches you grammar and quizzes you afterwards. And grammar rules do change over time, and there are certainly plenty of new words added to the lexicon each year. A 40-year-old uses dialect and vocabulary that is somewhat out of touch with the present day.

History: There are revisions, new theories, news of archaeological digs and new discoveries, etc. all the time. Imagine popping up a video of a greek trireme being excavated, including an interactive map of where it originated, where it ended up, and a depiction of what a typical fleet of ships would look like. What about the ship that was just uncovered under the World Trade Center? That would make an interesting side gallery next to a story of the 9/11 terrorist attacks. How many years would it take that to get into a printed book (if ever, since the cost of printing photos would probably outweigh the benefit of including it)?

Who the heck would want a printed book anymore? ;-)

Seriously, pick up a digital textbook such as Eo Wilson's Life on Earth (free) to see what the technology can do. It's a much more immersive learning environment, and studies have proven that the challenges are far outweighed by the benefits.
 

donnaw

macrumors 65816
Apr 19, 2011
1,134
6
Austin TX
Professional sports teams with money from seasons passes, tickets, accessories, toys, clothing, games, overpriced food/alcohol, etc and public schools that are paid for with taxes are two completely different things

Yes, they are. And it's a shame and disgrace that our society is more embroiled in 'their' team than actually spending sufficient funds to educate the next generation. You know, the adults that will eventually be running the country, paying the taxes, etc.

Yes, schools waste money. But if you consider that teaching is a rather low paying job....well, you get what you pay for. If we actually paid enough to hire the best, we might just get the best.

One has to wonder why teachers, police, firefighters are among the lowest paid public servants yet some still cry and moan at that cost. Especially considering their much needed and used services.

On topic, moving more technology into the classroom is a good thing. But I doubt we have found the right way to do so yet. There will be stumbles along the way. I wish LA good luck. Somebody has to go first.....kudos to the citizens for being willing.
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
6,869
8,172
Interesting.

People constantly bitch and moan about how f'ed up kids are today and how they are dumb and lazy and get into trouble, but then when someone says "let's increase the school budgets for education for these kids", those same complainers will scream in unison "Not with MY tax dollars!"
 

smithrh

macrumors 68030
Feb 28, 2009
2,722
1,730
Anyone can say "Oh, the irony" - it's possibly THE most (mis)used phrase online. So, please expand on "the irony", or your "irony" is meaningless... (which WOULD be ironic :D)

I quoted all that was needed for comprehension by a person of average intelligence.

No need to expand further.

If you need help, perhaps someone else will offer it to you.
 

donnaw

macrumors 65816
Apr 19, 2011
1,134
6
Austin TX
What a bunch of whining losers! Now the students have nothing, going back to lugging 30lbs of gear.
Here is something the Samsung camp could jump in to defend their tablets, only to find that for reasons of security and administation, the tablets would be locked down so tight to prevent tweaking or rooting. That would leave the tablet from Samsung so inferior to iPad in every which way. Besides, Apple is an American company!
I, however, agree about Pearson. They do have a lock on contents because they have been at it for so long. Their eTexts reach beyond K12. We do need more competition in this area.
The purchase price of an iPad is about the cost of buying just books for 1 curriculum materials for 1 year; this is a huge saving. Additionally, the price covers 3yr warranty; the contents are upgradable(revisions) every year for a minor fee. I don't see how we can lose.
The school then can enforce strict policies on "no locker, no back pack" minus the lunch bags if students opt for bringing their own lunches.
Lest I forget, kids have to leave phones at home. The only drawback is classrooms have to be equipped with quickcharge wireless charging stations. These kids will look for every reason to get out of turning in homework.

I remember when my son was in high school. He didn't have time between classes to exchange books from his locker so he carried all his books all the time in his backpack. He weighed 123 lbs. I weighed his backpack, it weighed 51.3 lbs. I guess it at least made him strong, although I wonder some times if that's not the reason he now has back issues.

Anyway, I agree with your post. Well said.
 

rish

macrumors 6502
Mar 23, 2006
349
2
London UK
$800 is...

...is an obscene amount for a school district to pay out to put tech in the hands of students. Its completely unacceptable for a tech giant like Apple to pursue that much. Horrific even. They are looking at the short term with this kind of approach. I'd take less and ensure that the students enjoyed using these devices so much that in the future they would be my customers. How bloody shortsighted can the education division at Apple be!

Idiocy.
 

PocketSand11

macrumors 6502a
Jun 12, 2014
688
1
~/
A book has nowhere near in infinite lifespan. A typical textbook lasts 2-3 years in a K-12 school. They get quickly damaged, and their content becomes obsolete (some subjects more quickly than others). They are very expensive temporary resources.

If a textbook only lasts 2-3 years due to damage, which I find hard to believe,
1. a glass iPad will last less than 1 year.
2. some of these kids have to start paying for damage. All my books were used for years before I got them, and they should last a very long time.

----------

Anyone can say "Oh, the irony" - it's possibly THE most (mis)used phrase online. So, please expand on "the irony", or your "irony" is meaningless... (which WOULD be ironic :D)

I don't see how saying "oh the irony" when it's not ironic is ironic itself, but he's pointing out that the guy complaining about kids having poor education can't even spell the word "infinitely".
 

joshuarayer

Suspended
Jan 28, 2009
62
1
Actually, a lot of sports franchises are supported (at least in the upkeep of their venues) by local taxes. It's obviously not a majority of their income, but it's a significant percentage for a lot of them.

And don't forget taxpayer money to build stadiums for those professional teams. Stadiums that the city/state has to ask permission to use.

Oh and let's no forget taxpayer money to subsidize the team's rent when they suck so bad, they can't sell out games.

While that may be true about tax players covering some of the bill, but they probably more than make up for it in jobs created(temporary and permanent) in order to main the stadium, concession stands, etc. Not to mention the amount of money that gets spent at the stadium itself and the amount of sales tax that gets collected during each game played. And I can't even imagine the monthly power bill for something as large as a professional football stadium.
 

gorkt

macrumors 6502a
Sep 15, 2007
712
585
Sigh...

It is sad to see that because one school district can't get their act together with using technology in the schools, others may be hesitant to adopt it.

Our school system is actually featured on the Apple website. We started implementing the iPad in our schools 3 years ago in the high schools and are now expanding the iPad program to all grades. Both my kids have a dedicated iPad in school. My elementary aged student uses it more sporadically, but the middle schooler used it all day every day last year for reading, taking notes, making keynote presentations, writing papers. It works really well for the kids. They also use chromebooks occasionally, but the iPad is better for a lot of stuff and more portable.

I do think a lot of the limitation is in the teachers. My daughter actually had to show her teachers how to do certain things. There needs to be a plan and training in how to utilize these in the classroom. You can't just throw iPads at the kids and expect them to learn.
 

rmatthewware

macrumors 6502
Jul 22, 2009
493
125
A book has an 'infinent' lifespan. This software as well as an iPad maxes out at 3 to 5 years.

You think a textbook has an 'infinent' lifespan among school kids? Yeah right.

Also, low bid contracts aren't always the best way to go. You can save money by giving everyone a $100 Coby tablet from Walgreen's, but good luck getting the apps to start.
 
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