LaCie Announces First USB-C External Hard Drive Supporting New MacBook

[IrishMafia]

Type-C doesn't mean higher data rates

The only think different about this drive is the connector. The specs say 3.0 data rates

https://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10649

So the good news is it's compatible with the new MB. The bad news is its still a USB 3.0 drive, type-C with USB 3.1 data rates is still a year or two away.

 

[randyj]

USB-C is an important step forward for computing, also to standardise power charging.

Right now USB is the standard, however is only 5 volts.
USB-C is up to 20 volts and 5 amps = 100 watts of power.

So imagine in the not so distant future, almost every device around your house having a USB-C connector to charge things.
Imagine charging an iPad or iPhone in a quarter the amount of time it takes now.

Or things like routers, cameras, battery chargers, shavers, bedside lamps etc etc

The mistake apple has made is the macbook only has 1 port.
And that Lacie has not included usb-c passthrough.

I suspect that when Apple does finally release a new monitor it will have this plug on it, then it would include a hub in the monitor for all other devices.
However having to make a choice between charging your machine, or using external files is just stupid.
Apple put 2 or 3 of these things on your machines in future...

 

[Dargoth]

The only think different about this drive is the connector. The specs say 3.0 data rates

https://www.lacie.com/us/products/product.htm?id=10649

So the good news is it's compatible with the new MB. The bad news is its still a USB 3.0 drive, type-C with USB 3.1 data rates is still a year or two away.

Why does it matter? This is a hard drive. You couldn't reach even USB 3.0's maximum throughput (let alone USB 3.1) with this. You'd have to RAID a bunch of these together to even approach it.

 

[Botts85]

Why does it matter? This is a hard drive. You couldn't reach even USB 3.0's maximum throughput (let alone USB 3.1) with this. You'd have to RAID a bunch of these together to even approach it.

Unless you ripped it open and added a fast SSD. You'd still be limited to SATA 6Gbps though.

100w out of USB would be awesome, though that begs the question: Why is the Apple charger only 29w instead of 100w?

 

[HenryDo0]

Where can I find such drives?

I am really excited to hear such good news. Where could we buy such hard drive? Can I find one on the LaCie official website? In fact, recently, I am just wondering to buy a better drive to instead my previous WD external hard drive that has been used for a long time. Hope this price of similar drives is not too high.

 

[g4cube]

Unless you ripped it open and added a fast SSD. You'd still be limited to SATA 6Gbps though.

100w out of USB would be awesome, though that begs the question: Why is the Apple charger only 29w instead of 100w?

As I wrote previously, the spec permits power up to 100watts, but there is no requirement to supply 100watts of power.

The only thing you get for sure with a Type-C connector is a connector that you cannot plug-in upside down

The plug orientation will be a boon for some, and a pain for others since they will have yet another connector type or adapter to worry about.

Recall something similar when Apple went to USB keyboards, and added ports to the keyboard. Since the keyboard was unpowered, there was little or no power available to power even a jump drive.

 

[Botts85]

As I wrote previously, the spec permits power up to 100watts, but there is no requirement to supply 100watts of power.

The only thing you get for sure with a Type-C connector is a connector that you cannot plug-in upside down

The plug orientation will be a boon for some, and a pain for others since they will have yet another connector type or adapter to worry about.

Recall something similar when Apple went to USB keyboards, and added ports to the keyboard. Since the keyboard was unpowered, there was little or no power available to power even a jump drive.

Agreed, but it seems like providing full-speed charging would be ideal. Similar to how Apple decided to finally let iPhones charge at 2.1A.

I am really excited to hear such good news. Where could we buy such hard drive? Can I find one on the LaCie official website? In fact, recently, I am just wondering to buy a better drive to instead my previous WD external hard drive that has been used for a long time. Hope this price of similar drives is not too high.

I don't think LaCie could ever be accused of being affordable for the price. It's great stuff, but you pay for the name and ultimately the feature set.

Another small issue with LaCie, is if you are preferential on drive brand, you never know who's drive is going to actually be in the enclosure. They used to lean heavily towards HGST though. You also don't know if you're getting a 5400 or 7200rpm drive.

Personally, I'd wait until someone (Monoprice) makes a USB 3.0 Micro-B to USB-C adapter, and just pick up a bare drive of your choosing and OWC enclosure.

Again though, LaCie does make good stuff, we had a LaCie tough (the rubber coated one) 2.5" external that survived numerous drops off the Genius Bar and years of use before being retired.

 

[IrishMafia]

Yes, only matters for SSD's and RAID

Why does it matter? This is a hard drive. You couldn't reach even USB 3.0's maximum throughput (let alone USB 3.1) with this. You'd have to RAID a bunch of these together to even approach it.

Sorry, I confused this with their external SSD. I forgot people still buy spinning drives

You are correct, for a spinning drive, no issue, USB 3.0 is all you need. For an SSD or RAID, 3.1 doubles the speed. I have a USB 3.0 RAID 5; for anything I do, it's fast enough, couldn't justify doubling the cost with Thunderbolt. USB 3.1 is only attractive for external SSDs and RAIDs.

 

[John.B]

100w out of USB would be awesome, though that begs the question: Why is the Apple charger only 29w instead of 100w?

USB type C connectors support five different power delivery profiles:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_Power_Delivery

No reason to design a big brick of a 100 watt charger for a 2 lb. laptop.

 

[g4cube]

LaCie was purchased by Seagate a few years ago, so at least for HDD, you'll find a Seagate inside (or Samsung, since Seagate also purchased their drive business before acquiring LaCie.

For SSDs, I've seen Samsung, Micron, Toshiba, and Sandisk inside.

As for RPM, that use to be a good indicator for drive speed, but not always. Only thing to be sure of with RPM, is latency. Thruput is dependent on platter density as well as RPM. It's actually possible for a 5400 RPM drive to have better thruput than 7200 RPM on some drives, since the data density on the platters, and prefetch into the cache could deliver a faster sustained data rate.

What you are really saying about the drives inside, is that you don't really know the model number of the drive inside.

Sort of like Apple when they included HDD inside their computers; they typically never spec'ed much more than drive size. Same is true for the SSDs Apple uses today and LCD panels. Other threads here on MacRumors delve into the details, especially when there is a performance difference.

 

[APlotdevice]

I think the answer is to buy an adapter that meets your needs. I'm sure there will be other adapters that have more ports available:

                      |---[USB-A]
[rMB USB-C]---[Adapter]---[HDMI]
                      |---[USB-C]---[LaCie USB-C drive]
                      |---[USB-C]---[Charger]
                      |---[USB-C]
                      |---[USB-C]

Obviously we will have to wait and see, but I'm not entirely sure that's even possible. Each port in such a hub would have to be wired up to allow up to the 100W specified in the USB 3.1 standard to pass through, and also to prevent more than one charger input at a time (well, unless a single port was specifically designated for charging and the rest were just for peripherals).

 

[LizKat]

In a word, yes.

In addition to Apple providing a USB-C to A female, for connecting legacy USB cables and devices, the USB standard also has provisions for a Type A Male to Type-C Male cable. This would permit plugging a drive like this LaCie into any other Mac or PC. Nothing magic, just a new type of connector.

The main advantage of this new Type-C connector is it is reversible, smaller, durable, and designed to handle different protocols.

The downside of this new connector:
- when implemented on various new devices, there is no guarantee of the port's capabilities. No way to determine if the connector supports USB 2.0, USB 3.0, or USB 3.1; no guarantee of the power available (500ma, 900ma, or 3A); no guarantee if the high power PD (Power Delivery) spec is supported for charging and at what power level; no guarantee that DP (DisplayPort) is supported.

So...

If you find a future device that has a Type-C connector, better have a good idea of what you are plugging in - brings future debugging and support scenarios into another round of confusion. Just because the connector and cable fits, doesn't mean that it will "just work".

Ah, sorta like SCSI voodoo back in the day... it just worked if you could just figure out how to terminate the chain du jour properly.

Eh, we can live through this since we lived through that! The issues will get resolved more quickly now though. Today there's an adapter for everything in about ten minutes. It's the one advantage of our much shorter attention span and accordingly shorter tolerance for what doesn't just work.

I love my LaCie Rugged drives as they have rolled out updated models over time; the multi-ports have let me migrate my older Firewire-stored stuff forward without hassle. Hope they will make a Rugged one with USB-C pronto. I'm up for getting one to go with a 12" rMB for sure.

 

[SpiderDude]

Nice

In a word, yes.

In addition to Apple providing a USB-C to A female, for connecting legacy USB cables and devices, the USB standard also has provisions for a Type A Male to Type-C Male cable. This would permit plugging a drive like this LaCie into any other Mac or PC. Nothing magic, just a new type of connector.

The main advantage of this new Type-C connector is it is reversible, smaller, durable, and designed to handle different protocols.

The downside of this new connector:
- when implemented on various new devices, there is no guarantee of the port's capabilities. No way to determine if the connector supports USB 2.0, USB 3.0, or USB 3.1; no guarantee of the power available (500ma, 900ma, or 3A); no guarantee if the high power PD (Power Delivery) spec is supported for charging and at what power level; no guarantee that DP (DisplayPort) is supported.

So...

If you find a future device that has a Type-C connector, better have a good idea of what you are plugging in - brings future debugging and support scenarios into another round of confusion. Just because the connector and cable fits, doesn't mean that it will "just work".

Damn. You know your cables sir.
May I ask what is it you do for a living?

 

[MiltonThales]

This drive in this article has a USB-C connector. The rMB is charged via its USB-C port. The adapter adds one USB (old style) plug, one HDMI plug, and passes through USB-C (it does not add another USB-C). So, with or without the adapter, there is only one USB-C port to use, and two things that logically make sense to use at the same time: external storage and charging.

Put another way, here is my attempt at a diagram:

[FONT="Lucida Console"][SIZE="1"]
Without an adapter:

[rMB USB-C]---[Charger]
or 
[rMB USB-C]---[LaCie USB-C drive]

can't connect both.

With an adapter:
                      |---[USB-A]
[rMB USB-C]---[Adapter]---[HDMI]
                      |---[USB-C]---[Charger]
or
                      |---[USB-A]
[rMB USB-C]---[Adapter]---[HDMI]
                      |---[USB-C]---[LaCie USB-C drive]

can't connect both.
[/SIZE][/FONT]

LaCie's page for this drive states that they include a USB-C<--->USB-A cable with the drive, so with Apple's $79 dongle, you plug the charger into the USB-C port and the LaCie Drive into the USB-A port. Presumably the USB-A port gets enough power to run the drive.

[FONT="Lucida Console"][SIZE="3"]

                      |---[USB-A]---[LaCie USB-C drive]
[rMB USB-C]---[Adapter|---[HDMI]
                      |---[USB-C]---[Charger]

[/SIZE][/FONT]

 

[oneMadRssn]

LaCie's page for this drive states that they include a USB-C<--->USB-A cable with the drive, so with Apple's $79 dongle, you plug the charger into the USB-C port and the LaCie Drive into the USB-A port. Presumably the USB-A port gets enough power to run the drive.

[FONT="Lucida Console"][SIZE="3"]

                      |---[USB-A]---[LaCie USB-C drive]
[rMB USB-C]---[Adapter|---[HDMI]
                      |---[USB-C]---[Charger]

[/SIZE][/FONT]

That would work, I suppose. Still seems pretty silly though. Also, it seems that simply using a regular USB 3.0 drive would accomplish the same thing, but with 1 less adapter.

I don't mind USB-C, I think it's great. I just think it's stupid to include only 1 port because of the charging issue. I would have zero complaints if the MBA had 2 USB-C ports. That way people could always charge and use one peripheral without requiring any adapters. Alternatively, the $80 adapter should have 2 USB-C ports for the same reason.

 

[g4cube]

Damn. You know your cables sir.
May I ask what is it you do for a living?

Just someone who reads specs in his spare time...

Check out usb.org, anandtech.com, and arstechnica.com

Lots of interesting info. Industry related, not exclusive to Apple.

 

[JamesPDX]

Be sure to get the undercoating...

Unless you ripped it open and added a fast SSD. You'd still be limited to SATA 6Gbps though.

100w out of USB would be awesome, though that begs the question: Why is the Apple charger only 29w instead of 100w?

So they can sell you a 100 watt unit as an upgrade later on. -Sooner rather than later.

 

[rohitp]

USB 3.0 Drive

This is a USB 3.0 drive with a 3.1 cable. That's all

 

[satinsilverem2]

Since type C can provide 100 watts at 20 volts, do you think that the desktop drives will loose the AC plug? That would be cool to think that all single drive externals could just have one cable like their portable cousins.

 

[g4cube]

Since type C can provide 100 watts at 20 volts, do you think that the desktop drives will loose the AC plug? That would be cool to think that all single drive externals could just have one cable like their portable cousins.

Certainly possible, except for one important consideration: not all devices with Type-C connection can supply 100Watts of power.

There would have to be some sort of notation or mark to indicate what power could be provided from any particular computer. For example, how much power might the new Macbook deliver from its Type-C connector?

We only know that the new charger for the Macbook is rated to supply 29Watts to charge the Macbook. A far cry from 100Watts.

 

[APlotdevice]

Certainly possible, except for one important consideration: not all devices with Type-C connection can supply 100Watts of power.

There would have to be some sort of notation or mark to indicate what power could be provided from any particular computer. For example, how much power might the new Macbook deliver from its Type-C connector?

We only know that the new charger for the Macbook is rated to supply 29Watts to charge the Macbook. A far cry from 100Watts.

What's interesting is that the including power supply doesn't follow the fixed profiles of the USB Power Delivery Specification.

Still, anything which can support Profile 2 should provide enough power for most external desktop hard drives.

 

[Anonymous Freak]

Certainly possible, except for one important consideration: not all devices with Type-C connection can supply 100Watts of power.

There would have to be some sort of notation or mark to indicate what power could be provided from any particular computer. For example, how much power might the new Macbook deliver from its Type-C connector?

We only know that the new charger for the Macbook is rated to supply 29Watts to charge the Macbook. A far cry from 100Watts.

In addition, what happens when you plug two hard drives in to the new ChromeBook Pixel with two USB type C ports? Devices will have caps, not just per-port, but per-device.

 

[Dreamliner330]

Reminds me of Dell USB Dock/Stand

Sorry, you mistook an Apple adapter for something with functionality. A docking station is something Macbook users would love, but that would cut into Apple's desktop sales.


I do wonder if any of these accessory makers will deliver power to the Macbook as well.

 

[g4cube]

In addition, what happens when you plug two hard drives in to the new ChromeBook Pixel with two USB type C ports? Devices will have caps, not just per-port, but per-device.

This is similar to what occurred with FireWire, but not as intelligent. SOmetimes Apple spec'ed power per port on multi-port computers, and other times quoted a total power available that was shared between devices connected to the two ports.

What is a bit better with USB 3.1 spec is the PD, or Power Delivery protocol which has several modes as summarized above. There is also an API to communicate what power is/is not available based on device profiles.

As with USB 3.1, there will be an industry shakeout period. Some vendors will get it right, while others will not.

As mentioned above, there is a way for devices and cables to communicate their capabilities. A lot different than just 2 connectors with wires in-between. For full featured "good" USB-C cable, there are provisions for an electronic marker to define capabilities: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#USB_3.1

Oh, and be sure to read this:
http://arstechnica.com/apple/2015/03/explaining-the-usb-3-1-gen-1-port-in-the-retina-macbook/

 

[pickaxe]

Can it also charge the Macbook? Otherwise this is totally useless as a nightly backup / charging solution.

I believe you meant the Macbook itself is totally useless as a nightly backup / charging solution