laptop for college: Lenovo X200s vs 2.4 GHz MacBook

[cm1]

From what I understand, doesn't higher resolution mean clearer display? Is that bad on a small laptop?

Tons of pixels per sq inch isn't a bad thing by itself. Default size for icons and text will definitely be smaller, though. That may be a bad thing, or it may not. I will probably output to an external screen when in the office if I go that route. I have no problem with the small display when I'm on the move. But I don't hate small type. If you do, it could drive you crazy.

Contrary to what I've seen others write on this board, happiness with the display is my #1 (or 1a) priority. It's what you're going to be looking at for the next 2-3-4 years. If you're unhappy with it before the purchase, it's probably just going to be downhill from there.

 

[nutritious]

Recently manufactured macbooks are supposed to have received different, higher quality screens, supposedly the equal to the macbook pros.

Any proof of this? If that's the case, I will buy the Macbook again...

 

[eXan]

From what I understand, doesn't higher resolution mean clearer display? Is that bad on a small laptop?

It means more pixels need to be stuffed into the same physical area and the only way to do that is it make pixels smaller. Smaller pixels result in smaller objects (like text or images) on the screen.

 

[J&JPolangin]

@J&JPolangin
After checking into that, I found out that I can also get the X200t tablet PC for roughly the same price, although with a slight drop in HDD and RAM. Unfortunately, the X200 without an "s" you were mentioning doesn't qualify for the discount.

Is the tablet PC a real plus for college use--like ability to take notes on-the-go or to use it as an e-book/textbook reader? Or are you guys still for the Mac?

I know this sounds like pushing against the synonymous decision I've found to go for the Mac. But then again, $1,400 is really a lot for me, and I really want a laptop that I will be happy with for another four years.

Thanks for your input!

I was looking at the x200 for ~$1100 with out docking station as I have a USB powered DVD-RW so I thought the rest of the dock was not needed... check amazon or newegg for this model, it is a NON-tablet.

The main reason I then decided to look at the MB was the new 9400M GPU chip vs the int graphics on the Lenovo...I would have also gotten the winXP pro version or downgraded the winVista business to winXP pro if that was the only one I could find.

 

[rmessing]

I'm gonna have to disagree with most

Hi,

The X200 looks like a pretty sweet box. I'm not comparing it to a macbook, but to the macbook air I'm typing this on. It's closer in weight to a macbook air than to a macbook, and if you don't think that matters, why do you think people buy the air? It's got many fewer compromises than the air, and to my way of thinking, if mac-os isn't a priority, and the ridiciulously awesome looks of the macbook air aren't a priority, is a superior machine.

Compared to the macbook:

Processor speed isn't as big an issue as you might think.
Ram really is, which is why I'd upgrade the macbook (not hard to do aftermarket, and not terribly expensive). It's the thing that kept one of the faculty members in my department from getting the air.
Hard drives are upgradeable in both machines, and not terribly expensive.
Battery life is a big reason to choose that beast of a lenovo over the macbook. Macbook will get fine battery life, but a 9-cell is pretty awesome.

Interesting note: You haven't mentioned the optical drive. The X200, like the macbook air, has none, while the macbook has a dvd burner. This makes a big difference for some people, but not for others. The fact that you didn't mention it suggests you're one of the latter, but if you're not terribly tech-savvy, are you going to be able to install software without an optical drive (a $30 external well serve if you don't install retail software all that often, but otherwise carrying an external kills the point of an ultralight like the x200). Also, movies - you know the x200 won't watch dvd movies unless you either use an external, or rip and transcode on another machine.

Hope that helps,
-Ross

 

[Sesshi]

I feel sorry for you if you can't carry extra 640 grams even if it means using Windows instead of OS X.

I wouldn't feel sorry for me - I'm not limited to owning just one laptop for this very reason. I pick and choose what I need for the job at hand. From the 1lb Sony UX to the Quad-core, FX3600M Dell M6400 Covet, I have a machine that fits any and all of my needs.

Having the choice makes me more conscious of differences. If you're limited to one and never have carried much different, you're highly likely to think as you do.

I also have every size of unibody Macbook bar the Air, of which I abandoned the last of them - the Rev.B 1.8/SSD - late last year. Unfortunately, due to the spectacular uselessness of the aforementioned Air for anyone other than domestics and posers, the lightest Mac I can meaningfully consider is the UBMB. In terms of runtime and all-up weight vs mobile utility, it is highly compromised in comparison to what I can pick up for Windows. However it's not like I really have a choice with OS X.

To the OP - personally I have a gigantic aversion to Trackpoints. Otherwise the X200 / s is undoubtely more useful than any Apple for actually mobile working.

You might also like to consider my upcoming primary carry - the Sony Z, albeit in my case a much higher-end model. The base model is about a hundred bucks more than a similar CPU/mem loadout for the Macbook. The difference is that it packs hybrid graphics for power saving, runtime that can easily exceed (in power saving mode) the Macbook on the standard cell plus accommodation for a 9-cell and has a superior screen, while weighing a pound less. On the durability front the Thinkpads may fare better although the Z will certainly fare better than the UBMB, but if you want to bridge the gap between style and substance the Sony may be a nice halfway point from the all-utility Thinkpad and the all-form Macbooks.

 

[thejadedmonkey]

Having been bummed by Apple $1259 too many times, I'm no longer an Apple apologist, so know that from the start...

However, I can't even imagine why you are considering the Macbook if you need portability. Someone on the forum dropped their macbook, and it ruined the ethernet port. Also, the battery life is nowhere near as good as the ThinkPad. Battery life and durability should be your two major concerns, and the Macbook wins at neither.

You might want to look at this thread to see how easily they can be damaged...

On the flip side, the Think Pad is probably the most durable computer money can buy. 11 years ago, they were capable of falling off a table and onto the floor, without breaking. Technology has improved since then...

A mac can fall just a foot, and it will void the entire warranty.

 

[Consultant]

<sour grapes>

So what? Anything can be damaged. Here is one.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/teg/115528753/

Battery life doesn't mean anything if the computer runs at extremely reduced power and takes a long time to switch bewteen opened apps.

 

[J&JPolangin]

So what? Anything can be damaged. Here is one.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/teg/115528753/

Battery life doesn't mean anything if the computer runs at extremely reduced power and takes a long time to switch bewteen opened apps.

...that'd be like the MBA runs regularly

 

[cm1]

Interesting note: You haven't mentioned the optical drive. The X200, like the macbook air, has none, while the macbook has a dvd burner. This makes a big difference for some people, but not for others. The fact that you didn't mention it suggests you're one of the latter, but if you're not terribly tech-savvy, are you going to be able to install software without an optical drive (a $30 external well serve if you don't install retail software all that often, but otherwise carrying an external kills the point of an ultralight like the x200). Also, movies - you know the x200 won't watch dvd movies unless you either use an external, or rip and transcode on another machine.

A great point. I'd actually recommend an externally powered USB drive. My current laptop has an optical drive, and I've watched DVDs once or twice, mainly because I can. If I were on the road and wanted to watch a movie, I have no problem relying on iTunes or Movielink. Or my slingbox, for that matter. I think it's mostly an issue for people who need to do mobile burning. As you say, portability shouldn't be the #1 consideration to start with in that case.

You might also like to consider my upcoming primary carry - the Sony Z, albeit in my case a much higher-end model. The base model is about a hundred bucks more than a similar CPU/mem loadout for the Macbook. The difference is that it packs hybrid graphics for power saving, runtime that can easily exceed (in power saving mode) the Macbook on the standard cell plus accommodation for a 9-cell and has a superior screen, while weighing a pound less. On the durability front the Thinkpads may fare better although the Z will certainly fare better than the UBMB, but if you want to bridge the gap between style and substance the Sony may be a nice halfway point from the all-utility Thinkpad and the all-form Macbooks.

Are you sure? People claim that Macs are guilty of style over substance. I've always thought that was more relevant to VAIOs. I had one once, and I would not begin to describe it as durable. Pretty? Sure. Great screen? Check. Durable/reliable? No.

I'm looking at the Zs, anyway, but I'm turned off by what I've read over on notebookreview.com. Poor keyboard performance, poor battery performance (drain problems), screen scratched by palmrests, etc. Vertical lines on 1600x900 models. Even the speed/stamina switch looks like a concession to style over substance. It takes 10-15 seconds to work, requires manual shutdown of all graphics programs, and requires user confirmation via dialog box. What's the benefit over pure software switching (as in, say, a T400 or even a MBP)? Other than to announce your switchable graphics to the world. Like the MacBook, it's got some outstanding features, but I'm not quite convinced. And I'm not sold on it as an essential business machine. But then I neither own nor want an entire stable of laptops.

Battery life doesn't mean anything if the computer runs at extremely reduced power and takes a long time to switch bewteen opened apps.

I wouldn't put it in such exaggerated terms, but I agree. Fortunately, this concern is not really relevant for an SL9400 w/ 4GB RAM. We're not talking about a true, 5.5 ULV Core 2 Solo like the SU3300.

 

[Sesshi]

Are you sure? People claim that Macs are guilty of style over substance. I've always thought that was more relevant to VAIOs. I had one once, and I would not begin to describe it as durable. Pretty? Sure. Great screen? Check. Durable/reliable? No.

Utter nonsense if you're brandishing an equivalent (in money as well as in specs) Apple in comparison.

I'm looking at the Zs, anyway, but I'm turned off by what I've read over on notebookreview.com. Poor keyboard performance, poor battery performance (drain problems), screen scratched by palmrests, etc. Vertical lines on 1600x900 models. Even the speed/stamina switch looks like a concession to style over substance. It takes 10-15 seconds to work, requires manual shutdown of all graphics programs, and requires user confirmation via dialog box. What's the benefit over pure software switching (as in, say, a T400 or even a MBP)? Other than to announce your switchable graphics to the world. Like the MacBook, it's got some outstanding features, but I'm not quite convinced. And I'm not sold on it as an essential business machine. But then I neither own nor want an entire stable of laptops.

Well - you've got to put the complaints in relative perspective.

The keyboard is better than the Macbooks. There is a recognised drain issue when the machine is turned off - I haven't measured mine when off but it's definitely less than 10% a day - but if the machine is in use the unit will be slept, and as far as sleep drain is concerned it's not significantly inferior to the Macbooks.

Edit: In addition, I was on notebookreview a while looking at the power problems, and I have to say the vast majority of this seems to come from people who have probably never even ventured into the power saving control panel, or figured out the difference between hibernate and sleep - in fact, they're just the sort of technologically (and inevitably in other fields no doubt) challenged people who may indeed be better off with the way a Mac works.

I have some potential build quality issues with it which have yet to be definitively proven - although less fudamental engineering issues than I have with all Unibody machines. I have a proven build quality problem with the TT's - it's a cosmetic-to-potentially-physical issue which I'm in contact with Sony about at the moment. Once again relatively speaking this is no more serious than the multitudes of build problems I've come across on Apples - only this is the first Apple-level incident I've had on a comparable Sony in several years.

Lines - actually, this issue is of less consequence than the issues inherent in all current MBP screens and is probably an indicator to more Sony users being significantly more picky than Apple users.

Switch: come on, it's a Sony. It's got to have buttons and switches.

In relative terms though it's a very viable pick, and a superior workhorse as opposed to posehorse in comparison to the Apples.

It suffers from a CFRP case I think, in that it doesn't engender the same sense of solidity from people who have no idea about materials, to whom aluminium is better because it's metal. The Z does have an alloy palmrest/keyboard shelf but it is carbon-reinforced plastic elsewhere.

 

[andrea1970]

I have some potential build quality issues with it which have yet to be definitively proven - although less fudamental engineering issues than I have with all Unibody machines. I have a proven build quality problem with the TT's - it's a cosmetic-to-potentially-physical issue which I'm in contact with Sony about at the moment. Once again relatively speaking this is no more serious than the multitudes of build problems I've come across on Apples - only this is the first Apple-level incident I've had on a comparable Sony in several years.

Hi, I am undecided as well between MacBook pro 13" and the Lenovo X200s. As someone has said in my case it's about battery and portability (pros in Lenovo) vs beuty and superior OS (pros MacBook pro).

Even always been a PC guy, though, I am much less scared of the adjustment to a new OS than the rumors about MacBook pro defects. Have you ever read the list of them at http://appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=MacBook_Pro#Defects?

Even if I am curious to give Mac a try, the list is pretty scaring. And moreover, scanning the internet, I have found nothing comparable about Lenovo X200.

Do you guys have any opinion in such respect?

 

[Bbusyb]

Hi, I am undecided as well between MacBook pro 13" and the Lenovo X200s. As someone has said in my case it's about battery and portability (pros in Lenovo) vs beuty and superior OS (pros MacBook pro).

Even always been a PC guy, though, I am much less scared of the adjustment to a new OS than the rumors about MacBook pro defects. Have you ever read the list of them at http://appledefects.com/wiki/index.php?title=MacBook_Pro#Defects?

Even if I am curious to give Mac a try, the list is pretty scaring. And moreover, scanning the internet, I have found nothing comparable about Lenovo X200.

Do you guys have any opinion in such respect?

I was seriously considering getting the X200t in Sep last year when I needed to Upgrade but went with the MBP mainly for the horsepower as I needed the Power more for Video and Photo work the The Mobility and Tablet features afforded by the thinkpad. Also, I was able to get the MBP cheaper the the Thinkpad at that time in the UK due to the Student Discount (None available from Lenovo).

Having said that, If the Prices had been comparable, the decision may have been toward the thinkpad as I've been a PC guy for years, and Familiarity has its advantages as even after 4-5 months I often find myself Thinking how the $%^& do I do this on my Mac. While I do enjoy my Mac and Like some things on it, at times I really do get fed up as I need to run something I need under virtualization as it or s substitute is not available for OSX.

Heck I'm saving up My self to Either get the New X201 Tablet when it comes out later this year, or to get the X200t with multitouch if I can score one at a good price to use as my mobile work machine as the office and Most of the Apps we use are PC only so I can dedicate a machine to that and use the Mac as my Media creation machine.

So in your Case i'll suggest Considering a few things befoe making you decision.

* Mobility - How important is Mobility. If its a key need then the Thinkpad has an edge as its lighter can be used in Tablet mode even in very cramped spaces. While the MBP is portable, its still a heavy machine, and does require some space to open.

* Battery life - The Thinkpad is going to give you more battery life plus the ability to get an extra battery to swap out if you need even more run time. My MBP on average gives between 2.5-3.5 hours depending on what I'm doing which is usable but does require me to carry my Power brick with me.

* Performance - You are definitely going to get much better performance from the Mac. If you are planning to do a lot of Media work, Rendering, etc then the Performance is going to be important. If you are mainly doing Word Processing, etc and occasionally Photo or video editing then The Thinkpad should more then meet your needs.

* OS - If you are familiar and comfortable with either OS its going to affect you choice. No matter how frustrating I find Windows at times, Its still the OS I'm most comfortable in and find easies to use. I was willing to try OSX as I wanted to learn, as Tech is my Hobby. If you arewilling to switch to anew OS and learn its quirks then do consider a Macbook and OSX. Do keep in mind that its as complex as Windows in in its own way and requires learning how it works.

* Keyboard - I personally feel that the Keyboard on the Think pad is much superior. While I can and do use my MBP keyboard pretty well, every time I end up using a thinkpad for even just a little while I'm surprised at how good they keyboard is to use.

EDIT:

I forgot to add earlier, For a good comparison of using a X200 Tablet and a Macbook as well as how they stackup against each other in the real world Check out what James Kindrick of JKOnTheRun has to say as he's regularly using both in his workflow.

Just search for X200 and Macbook at the Same time to get some of his thoughts.