laptop radiation

[Howard2k]

There seems to be a misunderstanding in a few posts that I think I'm being irradiated etc. I asked a simple question as to whether EMF from a laptop can be harmful. Also, I see a difference between watching lightning and having a gadget with EMF sitting right on top of you. Even apparent experts in these posts have said a laptop should not be called a laptop - Why is that? It is true that the experts unanimously say that there is no harm from EMF in a laptop. However, online, the articles saying there is harm far outnumber those that say there is, and there are hundreds of articles. If there truly is no harm at all, it really indicates the amount of misinformation out there about anything.

You can’t use the density of information as a measure of validity. More than half of the US believes that the earth is 6,000 years old and humans walked with dinosaurs. That doesn’t make it right.

There is huge business in questionable health claims. Look at chiropractic or homeopathy, for example.
Don’t get science news from Facebook, use reputable scientific publications.

You’re certainly right to err on the side of caution and not use your laptop on your lap for extended periods. If spending a long time on the phone, consider speakerphone if convenient. Or a regular wired phone if you have one. Being aware and cautious is better than throwing your hard earned money at the quacks.

 

[oceangirl10]

Sure - look up astrology - there are lots of articles out there about how the position of the stars on the day that you were born somehow influences the person that you are today. Just because there are a lot of articles on the internet about anything doesn't make it true.

Perhaps a place to start is on wikipedia - they tend to have more useful/less bogus information than just random web pages.

Possible EMF harm from a laptop on one's lap is not nearly as far-fetched as astrology. There have been apparent scientific studies with results showing it affects fertility rate in men. I'm not disagreeing that it could be quack science, but sometimes they are quite indistinguishable from real science. Anyway, the scientists who responded all agreed that there is no harm from EMF and laptops and that is what I will go with. I appreciate your comments.
[doublepost=1542662062][/doublepost]

You can’t use the density of information as a measure of validity. More than half of the US believes that the earth is 6,000 years old and humans walked with dinosaurs. That doesn’t make it right.

There is huge business in questionable health claims. Look at chiropractic or homeopathy, for example.
Don’t get science news from Facebook, use reputable scientific publications.

You’re certainly right to err on the side of caution and not use your laptop on your lap for extended periods. If spending a long time on the phone, consider speakerphone if convenient. Or a regular wired phone if you have one. Being aware and cautious is better than throwing your hard earned money at the quacks.

Agree, but still think this is categorically different that flat earth and God created man 6000 years ago. On the other hand, science is not everything either, and even if it were, facts are never written in stone - very much the contrary.

Would you say purchasing a protector for under the laptop is a complete waste of money?

 

[Howard2k]

Possible EMF harm from a laptop on one's lap is not nearly as far-fetched as astrology. There have been apparent scientific studies with results showing it affects fertility rate in men. I'm not disagreeing that it could be quack science, but sometimes they are quite indistinguishable from real science. Anyway, the scientists who responded all agreed that there is no harm from EMF and laptops and that is what I will go with. I appreciate your comments.
[doublepost=1542662062][/doublepost]

Agree, but still think this is categorically different that flat earth and God created man 6000 years ago. On the other hand, science is not everything either, and even if it were, facts are never written in stone - very much the contrary.

Would you say purchasing a protector for under the laptop is a complete waste of money?

Your understanding of science is not quite right, but that’s for another thread.


I would not buy a “laptop protector” or whatever. I would refrain from using my laptop on my lap where possible, but if I am using it on my lap I would just pull a hardback book from the shelf and use that.

I would then spend that $100 on books instead

 

[oceangirl10]

Your understanding of science is not quite right, but that’s for another thread.


I would not buy a “laptop protector” or whatever. I would refrain from using my laptop on my lap where possible, but if I am using it on my lap I would just pull a hardback book from the shelf and use that.

I would then spend that $100 on books instead

Just for the sake of clarification, why would you refrain from using a laptop on your lap where possible?

 

[Howard2k]

Just for the sake of clarification, why would you refrain from using a laptop on your lap where possible?

Because of the comfort and heat. And sure, because of EMF to some degree. But mainly comfort and heat.

 

[SDColorado]

Possible EMF harm from a laptop on one's lap is not nearly as far-fetched as astrology. There have been apparent scientific studies with results showing it affects fertility rate in men.

The scientific studies regarding laptop use and fertility rates in men, at least the ones I have seen, are regarding heat and not EMF. One such study suggested that extended use of a laptop in your lap could increase the temperature of the testes by as much as 35F.

Here is a clip from one such study, that would also suggest bicycles and hot tubs are maybe a larger problem.

“Myth: Cell phones, laptops, hot tubs and bicycles don’t have an effect on semen quality. Heat in extreme amounts can damage the testes and decline semen quality. A recent study by Fertility and Sterility found that the heat created from laptops can affect sperm motility and cause DNA damage. Cell phone emissions can also cause sperm damage, so keep phones in the back pocket and put a fan under your laptop. Men should be careful of putting too much time on the bike or lounging too long in a hot tub. Not to worry – semen quality typically declines only in extreme use or regular exposure. Enjoy your life and simply moderate your habits.”

That said, it falls more into an earlier question asked about why Laptops should not be marketed as laptops. In addition to the fertility issue there have been rare reports of Erythema or “Toasted Skin Syndrome.” All heat exposer related.

There have also been similar rate reports from long term heat exposure from heated seats in cars, electric blankets and heating pads, etc.

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-skin-seats-idUSL4E8DO09R20120224

An additional reasons for not using a laptop in your lap is that that the ergos are absolutely terrible and looking down and your laptop in your lap can cause neck and back strain/pain.

 

[oceangirl10]

Because of the comfort and heat. And sure, because of EMF to some degree. But mainly comfort and heat.

So then it isn't analgous to astrology at all.

The scientific studies regarding laptop use and fertility rates in men, at least the ones I have seen, are regarding heat and not EMF. One such study suggested that extended use of a laptop in your lap could increase the temperature of the testes by as much as 35F.

Here is a clip from one such study, that would also suggest bicycles and hot tubs are maybe a larger problem.

“Myth: Cell phones, laptops, hot tubs and bicycles don’t have an effect on semen quality. Heat in extreme amounts can damage the testes and decline semen quality. A recent study by Fertility and Sterility found that the heat created from laptops can affect sperm motility and cause DNA damage. Cell phone emissions can also cause sperm damage, so keep phones in the back pocket and put a fan under your laptop. Men should be careful of putting too much time on the bike or lounging too long in a hot tub. Not to worry – semen quality typically declines only in extreme use or regular exposure. Enjoy your life and simply moderate your habits.”

That said, it falls more into an earlier question asked about why Laptops should not be marketed as laptops. In addition to the fertility issue there have been rare reports of Erythema or “Toasted Skin Syndrome.” All heat exposer related.

There have also been similar rate reports from long term heat exposure from heated seats in cars, electric blankets and heating pads, etc.

https://www.reuters.com/article/health-skin-seats-idUSL4E8DO09R20120224

An additional reasons for not using a laptop in your lap is that that the ergos are absolutely terrible and looking down and your laptop in your lap can cause neck and back strain/pain.

Thank you for that clarification. So the issues are about heat - and there can be issues. Would you say, then, that a $100 protector is a complete waste of money when a pillow could do the same thing?
[doublepost=1542665048][/doublepost]

Just for the sake of clarification, why would you refrain from using a laptop on your lap where possible?

And I disagree about my understanding of science. Despite being off topic, if you would expand on your comment it would be most interesting and perhaps informative.

 

[Howard2k]

So then it isn't analgous to astrology at all.



Thank you for that clarification. So the issues are about heat - and there can be issues. Would you say, then, that a $100 protector is a complete waste of money when a pillow could do the same thing?

I didn’t say it was analogous to astrology.

Electromagnetic radiation is real. You’re bathing in it constantly. All the time. From sources you’re almost certainly completely unaware of. We’d be dead without it.

That doesn’t legitimize the quackery surrounding all the nonsense EMF shielded products available. I mentioned EMF because it’s a real phenomenon. But I also said that it wasn’t a key reason I don’t keep my laptop on my lap.

One of the articles you posted suggests that limiting exposure to EMF from a laptop is not a bad thing. I agree. But it’s not something I’m concerned about either.

I’d take a book over a pillow for stability. But whichever works.

 

[oceangirl10]

I didn’t say it was analogous to astrology.

Electromagnetic radiation is real. You’re bathing in it constantly. All the time. From sources you’re almost certainly completely unaware of. We’d be dead without it.

That doesn’t legitimize the quackery surrounding all the nonsense EMF shielded products available. I mentioned EMF because it’s a real phenomenon. But I also said that it wasn’t a key reason I don’t keep my laptop on my lap.

One of the articles you posted suggests that limiting exposure to EMF from a laptop is not a bad thing. I agree. But it’s not something I’m concerned about either.

I’d take a book over a pillow for stability. But whichever works.

Sorry... someone else said that.

 

[SDColorado]

Thank you for that clarification. So the issues are about heat - and there can be issues. Would you say, then, that a $100 protector is a complete waste of money when a pillow could do the same thing?

I would have my concerns about a pillow for a couple of reasons. The first being that they can sometimes block airflow, either intake or exhaust and cause an increased temperature inside the laptop. The second being that they can pose their own risks when exposed to prolonged heat.

I use a Cooler Master tray on my lap when I do use it on my lap against my optometrist's advice. I believe it cost in the neighborhood of $25-30. $100 for a protector that (a) is probably overkill even if it does work as advertised and (b) may not even work as advertised, particularly since it would be very directional even if it did, seems like an excessive expenditure.

 

[HDFan]

As for any actual harm that may come to you from using your computer - I don't think anyone can answer that.

Yes.

As for any actual harm that may come to you from using your computer - I don't think anyone can answer that. The article that you link to does not speak about direct absorption of radiation directly from the computer, but rather currents that may be induced in the body. I believe that there is no scientific consensus on what these effects may be (if there are any at all)

Yes.

Don’t get science news from Facebook, use reputable scientific publications.

But what do you do if the science isn't there?

There is no incentive, or major funding, for research into the effects of EMF on the human body. Definitive science does not exist. Manufacturers certainly are going to resist any research which might open them up to product liabilities. This is particularly true since the number of people who are severely effected, to the point of not being able to carry out normal activities, is very, very small.

For those whose lives are severely impacted by EMF their only recourse, since standard medicine and science have no solutions, is currently alternative medicine. For some people this is not appropriate due to the lack of appropriate science. There are treatments which are questionable. But there are a variety of resources and treatments that do help available for those can find no alternative. EMF Shielding is just one of them.

 

[tamara6]

Sorry, my astrology comment seems to have been misunderstood. I was replying specifically to "it really indicates the amount of misinformation out there about anything."

I was not trying to draw a parallel between electromagnetic fields and astrology, I was trying to point out the number of web sites that exist about astrology as further evidence that there are lots of web pages that seem to have scientific jargon on them that are simply not true. I was agreeing with you.

And then I suggested wikipedia as a place to start when you are looking for information.

I meant my comments in this regard to be general in nature, not specific to any topic at all (not even astrology). I'm sorry for the confusion.

 

[doitdada]

It's a conspiracy led by the government to kill all cellphone and laptop users. In fact the same company that produced the protection matts got funding from Q-tel to support their CIA operations in Africa. They want to go back to paper, so they can control the flow of information more freely.

 

[Howard2k]

Yes.



Yes.



But what do you do if the science isn't there?

There is no incentive, or major funding, for research into the effects of EMF on the human body. Definitive science does not exist. Manufacturers certainly are going to resist any research which might open them up to product liabilities. This is particularly true since the number of people who are severely effected, to the point of not being able to carry out normal activities, is very, very small.

For those whose lives are severely impacted by EMF their only recourse, since standard medicine and science have no solutions, is currently alternative medicine. For some people this is not appropriate due to the lack of appropriate science. There are treatments which are questionable. But there are a variety of resources and treatments that do help available for those can find no alternative. EMF Shielding is just one of them.

Are there any reputable scientific studies showing they hypersensitivity to EMR is real?
[doublepost=1542722227][/doublepost]

Sorry, my astrology comment seems to have been misunderstood. I was replying specifically to "it really indicates the amount of misinformation out there about anything."

I was not trying to draw a parallel between electromagnetic fields and astrology, I was trying to point out the number of web sites that exist about astrology as further evidence that there are lots of web pages that seem to have scientific jargon on them that are simply not true. I was agreeing with you.

And then I suggested wikipedia as a place to start when you are looking for information.

I meant my comments in this regard to be general in nature, not specific to any topic at all (not even astrology). I'm sorry for the confusion.

It was clear to me.

 

[Newtons Apple]

There seems to be a misunderstanding in a few posts that I think I'm being irradiated etc. I asked a simple question as to whether EMF from a laptop can be harmful. Also, I see a difference between watching lightning and having a gadget with EMF sitting right on top of you. Even apparent experts in these posts have said a laptop should not be called a laptop - Why is that? It is true that the experts unanimously say that there is no harm from EMF in a laptop. However, online, the articles saying there is harm far outnumber those that say there is, and there are hundreds of articles. If there truly is no harm at all, it really indicates the amount of misinformation out there about anything.

Agreed. Just remember that you can find harm in anything if you look it up on the Internet. There is a lot of good along with bad information out there.

Have a great week!

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

EMF sensitivity is imaginary. If you worry about something you don’t understand will feel sick from the stress rather than from the devices. The mind is that powerful and easy to deceive.

 

[SDColorado]

And then I suggested wikipedia as a place to start when you are looking for information.

World Health Organization (WHO) is also a balanced resource and while they admit there is still some gaps in reseearch, have the following to say...

"In the area of biological effects and medical applications of non-ionizing radiation approximately 25,000 articles have been published over the past 30 years. Despite the feeling of some people that more research needs to be done, scientific knowledge in this area is now more extensive than for most chemicals. Based on a recent in-depth review of the scientific literature, the WHO concluded that current evidence does not confirm the existence of any health consequences from exposure to low level electromagnetic fields. However, some gaps in knowledge about biological effects exist and need further research."

The full 7-page report can be read here (also reprinted in several other languages).

 

[A.Goldberg]

Whatever it is, I feel a sensation on my legs that gets stronger the longer I have the laptop there, and it does not feel like heat. I thought it felt like what radiation might feel like, but I have no idea. I can feel it a bit on my hands on the top as well. I am a bit sensitive to environmental things at times, though.

As others have mentioned, you cannot “feel” radiation.

The amount of radiation emitted from your laptop is quite negligible as it’s not ionizing radiation. Radiation’s harmful effects depend on intensity and duration of exposure. I assume you don’t live with your laptop glued to your lap in which case the exposure is also negligible.

Remember that there’s plenty of background radiation everywhere in the environment. Your body is designed to compensate for low levels of radiation and mutations that may occur.

If using a protective mat makes you feel better (though I’m not sure why one would cost $100), then maybe use it for peace of mind. But otherwise you really shouldn’t be worrying so much.

If you’re looking to prevent cancer doing things like eating healthily, exercising regularly, taking antioxidants, avoiding carcinogens (ie cigarettes), etc is far more valuable. And working with a laptop on your probably has more legitimate concerns like eye stain, posture, sedentary lifestyle, etc.

 

[mikecwest]

Turn it off and put it in a drawer, you will never have to worry it about it again.

Better yet, she can Fedex it to me, and get it far away from her as possible.

 

[oceangirl10]

I would have my concerns about a pillow for a couple of reasons. The first being that they can sometimes block airflow, either intake or exhaust and cause an increased temperature inside the laptop. The second being that they can pose their own risks when exposed to prolonged heat.

I use a Cooler Master tray on my lap when I do use it on my lap against my optometrist's advice. I believe it cost in the neighborhood of $25-30. $100 for a protector that (a) is probably overkill even if it does work as advertised and (b) may not even work as advertised, particularly since it would be very directional even if it did, seems like an excessive expenditure.

What is a Cooler Mastery tray? Why is your laptop on your lap against your optometrist's advice?

 

[SDColorado]

What is a Cooler Mastery tray? Why is your laptop on your lap against your optometrist's advice?

The laptop tray is designed to provide some cooling and airflow between your lap and the laptop. Allows for better airflow for the device and keeps the heat directly away from you.

It is similar in design to this

As for as the optometrist advise. I get eye strain and have been advised to position the top of the display at eye level and keep it an arms length away for best ergos. I also wear computer glasses now, which are similar to progressive bifocals, but have are focused to a closer distance for computer use. You can also get them tinted to filter blue light, but I have not. I don’t like the yellow.

But sometimes you have to do what you have do do

 

[oceangirl10]

The laptop tray is designed to provide some cooling and airflow between your lap and the laptop. Allows for better airflow for the device and keeps the heat directly away from you.

It is similar in design to this

As for as the optometrist advise. I get eye strain and have been advised to position the top of the display at eye level and keep it an arms length away for best ergos. I also wear computer glasses now, which are similar to progressive bifocals, but have are focused to a closer distance for computer use. You can also get them tinted to filter blue light, but I have not. I don’t like the yellow.

But sometimes you have to do what you have do do

I was also getting eye strain and purchased these glasses. Do you have an opinion on their effectiveness? I get them with a small prescription. They have helped my eye strain but it might not be enough by an optomistrist's standard. May I ask what kind of glasses you have?
[doublepost=1542746793][/doublepost]

It's a conspiracy led by the government to kill all cellphone and laptop users. In fact the same company that produced the protection matts got funding from Q-tel to support their CIA operations in Africa. They want to go back to paper, so they can control the flow of information more freely.

They are finally putting their resources to good use.

 

[Maxx Power]

On the other hand, science is not everything either, and even if it were, facts are never written in stone - very much the contrary.

I just wanted to pitch in to say that if science wasn't a determining factor in helping you decide whether or not to get the protection plate for your lap or the glasses for your eyes, then how will you actually know if these products were effective?

 

[Hadron]

Not completely related but I think it's relevant to harmful things many of us are not aware of, I recently found out about a disturbing discovery regarding blue light emitted from screens:

You do know that the intensity of blue photons in sunlight dwarfs the maximum output of your laptop/phone/tablet/TV's screen? And of course sunlight includes UV, which is even more energetic and hence more potentially damaging. If you find this particular in vitro study worrying you had better wear dark googles throughout the daylight hours.

(And just for info, when The Verge asked the author of this study whether it meant that staring at your phone or laptop would make you go blind, his reply was "absolutely not").

You can’t use the density of information as a measure of validity. More than half of the US believes that the earth is 6,000 years old and humans walked with dinosaurs. That doesn’t make it right.

Well one of those two is correct. Admittedly the only remaining place where dinosaurs are the dominant large animals is Antarctica in the Winter (when they huddle together in large numbers to brood their eggs), but there are still at least twice as many species of dinosaur around as mammals. Of course the people you are talking about would not recognise these creatures as dinosaurs, because that classification follows from their evolutionary history...

 

[SDColorado]

I was also getting eye strain and purchased these glasses. Do you have an opinion on their effectiveness? I get them with a small prescription. They have helped my eye strain but it might not be enough by an optomistrist's standard. May I ask what kind of glasses you have?
[doublepost=1542746793][/doublepost]

They are finally putting their resources to good use.

Mine are actually a prescription glass from the optimist, based on an eye exam.

I am not sure about the optical quality of the glass or the prescription of those that you linked. Are they just tinted readers?

If you are familiar with progressive lenses they have three primary target areas (near, intermediate, distance) with a progression between the 3 areas. With most progressive lenses the lens is more or less divided into equal thirds between those target areas.

With the computer lenses the mid-range area makes up the majority of the lens, with a smaller close and tiny distance area and focused to about an arms length away. Not much use for seeing clearly beyond 6’, but they really help with the computer display making it crisp, clear and good contrast. I have a lot less eye strain with them.