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Makosuke

macrumors 604
Original poster
Aug 15, 2001
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The Cool Part of CA, USA
I was posting some of this in another thread, but realized that it would probably make more sense on its own.

I have a 16" MBP M1 Max of my own, and happen to have access to a brand-new Dell Precision 5560 mobile workstation that is pretty darned close to the closest Dell offers in its lineup today, so I thought it would be fun to run some comparative benchmarks to see how a top-of-the-line laptop workstation from Apple compares to a pretty-much-equivalent one from Dell.

Specs:

MacBook Pro 2021 (18,2):
M1 Max, 10-core​
32-core GPU​
64 GB memory​
1TB storage​
12.2.1​

Dell Precision 5560:
Intel Core i9-11950H, 8-core​
64 GB RAM (2x 32GB sticks)​
NVIDIA RTX A2000 Laptop w/4GB​
1TB storage​
Win10 Enterprise freshly installed, no bloatware​

The physical and cost breakdown are pretty darned close. Note that these are actual measurements with a ruler and kitchen scale, not from the spec sheet. Thickness is measured from the surface of a table it's sitting on to the top of the case. I did this because the weights were imprecise and Dell fudges the thickness; the computer is kind of a trapezoid shape with curved edges on the underside, and their spec sheet shows the thickness at the front and back, both of which are much less than the thickest point/"on-desk thickness".

MacBook Pro 2021Dell Precision 5560
16" 3456x2234 (minus notch)15.6" 3840x2400 touchscreen
3x TB4 ports3x TB4 ports
Magsafeno dedicated charge port (must use TB4 port)
1x HDMInone (includes HDMI + USB-A dongle)
SD slotSD slot
18.5mm x 356mm x 248mm, 2158g19mm x 344mm x 232mm, 2011g
$3899 list, as-configured$4216 as-configured ($6023 list)

Subjectively, the curved edges on the Dell make it feel thinner than the chunky MBP, and the volume is certainly lower. They both feel good, although I much prefer the aluminum palm rests to the Dell's carbon-fiber-looking slightly matte plastic. Closed, the Dell looks amusingly identical to the MBP from the top, although the bottom is much different (covered with vents and looks like a typical Dell underside). The MBP's monitor feels larger and looks better (color and brightness), although it's a hair lower-res (and not a touchscreen).

The Dell does have a dedicated Delete key, which is a huge plus to me. The keyboard otherwise looks suspiciously like an Apple one, except no fingerprint scanner, half-height and reduced-width F-keys, and full sized left and right arrow keys instead of T-shape. It also feels worse to me, as does the not-quite-as-large trackpad.

The Dell is currently more expensive, but my org (thanks to hefty enterprise discounts) payed around what I paid for the MBP with edu discount.

Both computers are specced at basically top-of-line apart from storage; max storage is the same on both. The Dell could be configured with a Xeon CPU (similar performance to the i9) and ECC RAM, but neither would impact performance significantly and there's a relatively modest price differential.

Note that the Dell 7560 has much higher-performance GPU options, and can take more RAM and storage (also it can cost way over $10,000), but I'm making a distinction between "laptop" workstations and "portable" workstations in that the Dell 7560 is way heavier, way thicker, and based on TDP has something like 30 minutes of battery life if the CPU and GPU are running full-bore, and that's if the battery can even supply the GPU running flat out. The 7000 series is moveable but clearly designed to be used plugged in and stationary; the 5000 series and MBP are genuine laptops.

That said, the MBP can comfortably be used on a lap even with the CPU running full-bore for several minutes straight; the Dell gets too hot to hold your hand on under the CPU after a few minutes of heavy CPU use. In ballpark estimates, heavy-number-crunching will drain the MBP battery in about 120 minutes versus 75 minutes for the Dell, although I haven't done precise comparisons. The Dell's fan is impressively quiet, but still much louder than the MBP's, which is virtually silent under almost any workload.


I started out with Geekbench, Cinebench, and GFXBench. Since 3DMark Wild Life and Wild Life Extreme can be run on an M1 Mac, I'd love to compare, but I'm not going to pay $30 for the Windows version to run the test there.

A major caveat to the results on the Dell: It is very clearly thermally limited on the CPU after the first minute or two of heavy load. If I run a 1-minute Cinebench test, I get around 11,800; on a 10-minute test, the results are erratic and between 9000 and 9800 depending on how it's positioned to maximize airflow. The MBP has no such limitations in my testing, at least at room temperature, and could comfortably be kept on a lap during a 10-minute Cinebench run without impacting performance.

Geekbench on the Dell didn't seem to be impacted by the thermal limits, since it's a short test. GFXBench probably is; I put the computer on its side to maximize airflow (way better than you'd get with it on a table).

Geekbench:
MBP M1 MaxDell Precision 5560MBP Advantage
Single-core1,7811,624+10%
Multi-core12,5978,951+41%
OpenCL Compute64,47359,345+9%
Metal Compute66,624n/a

Blackmagic Disk Speed:
MBP M1 MaxDell Precision 5560MBP Advantage
Peak write~5350MB/s~2403MB/s+122%
Peak read~5350MB/s~1640MB/s+226%

Cinebench r23:
MBP M1 MaxDell Precision 5560MBP Advantage
multi-core (10-minute run)14,0619,855+43%

GFXBench:
MBP M1 Max (Metal frames)Dell Precision 5560 (OpenGL frames)MBP Advantage
Aztec Ruins 1440p High-Tier Offscreen19,9005,578+257%
Car Chase 1080p Offscreen23,70912,706+157%
Manhattan 3.1.1 1440p Offscreen24,58718,974+30%
T-Rex 1080p Offscreen121,24041,953+189%
ALU 2 1080p Offscreen68,54860,331+14%
Driver Overhead 2 1080p Offscreen23,29913,224+76%
Texturing 1080p Offscreen279,14166,805+318%

So, depending in part on how severely the Dell is throttling, the CPU in these tests is between 10% and 30% slower, roughly speaking. The M1 Max GPU in its worst showing is 10% faster than the Dell, and on many straightforward game-rendering type tests it's a full 3 times faster, which is pretty impressive.

I believe based on some preliminary tests that for Blender GPU rendering, even with the beta version that supports Metal the NVIDIA has a significant advantage (unfortunately the simple Blender Benchmark app doesn't yet have a version that supports GPU rendering). Optimization may be lagging due to it being so new, but in any case that's the one test so far where the AS GPU hasn't topped the Dell offering.

Any other cross-platform benchmark requests (with free software, I'm not actually going to spend money on this)?
 
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Can you please run the Blender Classroom Render on the CPU? It seems like the M1 Max should be faster but I'm not sure.
 
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Can you please run the Blender Classroom Render on the CPU? It seems like the M1 Max should be faster but I'm not sure.

M1 Pro/Max CPU is relatively slow on Blender so you want to use GPU once they release a stable version.

BMW render
16.39s - 3060 70W mobile (GPU OptiX Blender 3.0)
20.57s - reference 6900xt (GPU HIP Blender 3.0)
29s - 2070 Super (GPU OptiX)
42.79s - M1 Max 32GPU (GPU Metal Blender 3.1 alpha)
48s - M1 Max 24GPU (GPU Metal Blender 3.1 alpha + patch)
51s - 2070 Super (GPU CUDA)
1m18.34s - M1 Pro 16GPU (GPU Metal Blender 3.1 alpha + patch)
1m35.21s - AMD 5950X (CPU Blender 3.0)
2m0.04s - Mac Mini M1 (GPU Metal Blender 3.1 alpha + patch)
2m48.03s - MBA M1 7GPU (GPU Metal Blender 3.1 alpha)
3m55.81s - AMD 5800H base clock no-boost and no-PBO overclock (CPU Blender 3.0)
4m11s - M1 Pro (CPU Blender 3.1 alpha)
5m51.06s - MBA M1 (CPU Blender 3.0)
 
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Very cool and detailed comparison, thanks for putting the effort into this! That said,

Subjectively, the curved edges on the Dell make it feel thinner than the chunky MBP
Maybe it’s different for someone coming from an Air or other ultrabook, but as a former Dell D630 and ThinkPad X220 user it just seems... wrong to call the new MBPs “chunky”. I mean, I spent a few weeks last year archiving floppies on a PowerBook 1400cs that was a good 2” thick (3x the thickness of my 14” MBP), so it’s all a matter of perspective...
 
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Maybe it’s different for someone coming from an Air or other ultrabook, but as a former Dell D630 and ThinkPad X220 user it just seems... wrong to call the new MBPs “chunky”. I mean, I spent a few weeks last year archiving floppies on a PowerBook 1400cs that was a good 2” thick (3x the thickness of my 14” MBP), so it’s all a matter of perspective...
Fair point. But for me, I'm coming from a 2018 15" MBP, which--whatever you have to say about ports, battery life, or thermals--is incredibly svelte, so the 2021 models are certainly chunky in comparison.

More to the point, though, even compared to a 2015 MBP from work, the square edges make the 2021 model feel chunkier even though it's actually smaller overall.

Can you please run the Blender Classroom Render on the CPU? It seems like the M1 Max should be faster but I'm not sure.
Sure. Since you asked for CPU, I used the release 3.0.1 version on both computers, and did the "Render Image" option.

Blender 3.0.1 Classroom Demo File (GPU done with 3.1 Release Candidate)
MBP M1 MaxPrecision 5560M1 Max Difference
CPU Only8:219:028% faster
GPU (Metal/OptiX)1:471:0175% slower

So the GPU compute engine on the M1 max nets a nearly 5x increase in speed, but the A2000 gets a 9x boost so ends up quite a bit faster in GPU. Could be poor optimization in Blender since Metal support is not even out of beta yet, or could be because the compute engine isn't as strong as NVIDIA's (using the less-optimized CUDA instead of OptiX, the A2000 was almost exactly the same speed as the M1 Max GPU). Note that the experimental Metal RT was slower on than off.

[Edited to add GPU rendering; I figured out how to turn on GPU compute.]
 
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Fair point. But for me, I'm coming from a 2018 15" MBP, which--whatever you have to say about ports, battery life, or thermals--is incredibly svelte, so the 2021 models are certainly chunky in comparison.

More to the point, though, even compared to a 2015 MBP from work, the square edges make the 2021 model feel chunkier even though it's actually smaller overall.


Sure. Since you asked for CPU, I used the release 3.0.1 version on both computers, and did the "Render Image" option.

Blender 3.0.1 Classroom Demo File
MBP M1 MaxPrecision 5560M1 Max Difference
8:219:028% faster

I do have a question on this one, though. I had intended to do the tests with GPU rendering enabled as well, but unlike some other demo files I played with (where the Mac had about a 3x speed boost and the PC roughly 6x), with the Classroom file it didn't seem to make any difference what render mode I selected. On both Windows and macOS, I always saw 100% CPU load and no load on the GPU, and the speed didn't change at all.

Am I doing something wrong here, or is there something different about the Classroom file that inhibits GPU rendering? I was able to turn on GPU rendering with both of the other demo files I tried and it had the expected effect.
(I edited this post to fix some inaccuracies)

Thank you so much for your testing!. Just as a point of comparison, my M1 MacBook Air took 13 minutes on the CPU and 6 minutes on the GPU (about as fast as a Radeon Pro W5500). Anyways, I am super impressed with the results of both the M1 Max and the Precision. I did not know the Precision was so fast!

To answer your question, you need version 3.1 RC, which is Metal-supported to use the GPU on M1 Macs.

I would imagine the M1 Max is about 4 times faster rendering on the GPU, that's just a pure guess...
 
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Thank you so much for your testing!. Just as a point of comparison, my M1 MacBook Air took 13 minutes on the CPU and 6 minutes on the GPU (about as fast as a Radeon Pro W5500). [...]

To answer your question, you need version 3.1 RC, which is Metal-supported to use the GPU on M1 Macs.
I have 3.1 RC, and it's not working that way for me. I've never used Blender, so I assume there's something I'm doing wrong here, but I don't know what.

I go into Edit -> Preferences, go to System -> Cycles Render Device, select Metal, and check the box next to "Apple M1 Max (GPU)". When I then select Render -> Render Image, the CPU reads >800% load and the GPU reads basically none.

This is exactly the same on the Windows install--even when selecting CUDA or OptiX, I see 100% CPU and no GPU load, and the speed is the same.

This is not the case with, for example, Monster Under The Bed demo scene. That one heavily loads the GPU and is much faster when selecting Metal/CUDA/OptiX rendering with the GPU checked.

I did not know the Precision was so fast!
For ~$4500, it had better be. The machine is designed as a portable workstation, and it certainly lives up to that unless you're pitting it against an M1 Pro or Max Mac using software that is native.
 
I have 3.1 RC, and it's not working that way for me. I've never used Blender, so I assume there's something I'm doing wrong here, but I don't know what.

I go into Edit -> Preferences, go to System -> Cycles Render Device, select Metal, and check the box next to "Apple M1 Max (GPU)". When I then select Render -> Render Image, the CPU reads >800% load and the GPU reads basically none.

This is exactly the same on the Windows install--even when selecting CUDA or OptiX, I see 100% CPU and no GPU load, and the speed is the same.

This is not the case with, for example, Monster Under The Bed demo scene. That one heavily loads the GPU and is much faster when selecting Metal/CUDA/OptiX rendering with the GPU checked.


For ~$4500, it had better be. The machine is designed as a portable workstation, and it certainly lives up to that unless you're pitting it against an M1 Pro or Max Mac using software that is native.
Hmmm, this is interesting. I'm not having the issue. I know a very small amount about Blender, so I honestly have no clue...

I haven't done the Classroom render since December (that's where I'm getting my numbers from) so it might be a problem with the latest RC.
 
Ahh, I figured it out. You need to manually select "GPU Compute" for the scene in the properties pane, otherwise it will only use the CPU, and this demo file came with it set to CPU. I'll updated the table above to include GPU rendering.

Given the relatively poor performance of the M1 Max's GPU in comparison to other tests, either the compute engine isn't as strong as the NVIDIA A2000, or (my guess is more likely) Blender just isn't well optimized for Metal yet.
 
I go into Edit -> Preferences, go to System -> Cycles Render Device, select Metal, and check the box next to "Apple M1 Max (GPU)". When I then select Render -> Render Image, the CPU reads >800% load and the GPU reads basically none.

Classroom render scene uses CPU by default so change the render properties from CPU to GPU. It's on the right side of Blender screen under camera icon.

1646718707769.png


With 5800H CPU it shows 8m2s and mobile 70W 3060 GPU 36.74s with Classroom demo downloaded from here:
https://download.blender.org/demo/test/classroom.zip

For Metal, you want the 3.1 Apple Silicon build from here:
https://builder.blender.org/download/daily/
 
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Classroom render scene uses CPU by default so change the render properties from CPU to GPU. It's on the right side of Blender screen under camera icon.
Thanks for that. I Googled around, figured it out, and updated accordingly ( from the looks of it while you were still typing your post).
 
For ~$4500, it had better be. The machine is designed as a portable workstation, and it certainly lives up to that unless you're pitting it against an M1 Pro or Max Mac using software that is native.

Seems like you should be getting a lot more CPU and GPU for $4500. Do you plan to keep the Dell or wait for Alder Lake CPU refresh plus RTX4000 GPU hopefully soon? I think I'd be happy with 12700H + RTX4060 for my next upgrade. Currently have Lenovo Legion Slim 7 AMD 5800U RTX3060 16GB 1TB that has been as low as ~$1300.

1646723395798.png
 
a lot of the different bench mark tests are not really going to give you an accurate answer for performance. You need to look at the software you are using and what you are using it for. Apple's hardware plays exceptionally well together, so 16 gigs of ram does not necessarily mean the same as 16 gigs of ram on a PC. There is so much more going on here then just hardware, software plays a huge part. There is a video I posted in another thread of a YouTuber who is a video editor. He has a desktop PC as his main machine, i9 processor, 3070 gpu, 64 gigs of ram, etc etc etc. He compared working in Adobe Premier with 4K media from drones and a camera. The comparison computer was a base model 14" MacBook Pro M1 Pro. The MacBook Pro outperformed the PC in everyday save rending time at the end, and that is something usually left to run on its own overnight. Differences were not huge.
 
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a lot of the different bench mark tests are not really going to give you an accurate answer for performance. You need to look at the software you are using and what you are using it for. Apple's hardware plays exceptionally well together, so 16 gigs of ram does not necessarily mean the same as 16 gigs of ram on a PC. There is so much more going on here then just hardware, software plays a huge part. There is a video I posted in another thread of a YouTuber who is a video editor. He has a desktop PC as his main machine, i9 processor, 3070 gpu, 64 gigs of ram, etc etc etc. He compared working in Adobe Premier with 4K media from drones and a camera. The comparison computer was a base model 14" MacBook Pro M1 Pro. The MacBook Pro outperformed the PC in everyday save rending time at the end, and that is something usually left to run on its own overnight. Differences were not huge.
amazing to come to a conclusion like that knowing that Adobe has not done very well optimizing for Apple silicon.
 
Seems like you should be getting a lot more CPU and GPU for $4500. Do you plan to keep the Dell or wait for Alder Lake CPU refresh plus RTX4000 GPU hopefully soon? I think I'd be happy with 12700H + RTX4060 for my next upgrade.
As noted, while a consumer would pay $4500 today (probably less, since most people would buy cheaper RAM and add it themselves), we get hefty enterprise discounts, so we didn't pay anywhere near $4500, and in fact we accelerated an upgrade and bought two of them because the deal was good.

Regardless, of course we're going to keep them, I don't think Dell accepts returns on CTO systems anyway. Sure, 12th gen intel chips should be coming shortly, but the reality is we needed a portable CAD workstation now, we asked for well-equipped spec, and this is what purchasing and our rep got us.

Besides, they were available with a short lead time, unlike a lot of stuff--we have Dell items from orders in early December that still haven't shipped, so if Dell released a 12th gen CPU and GPU refresh in the Precision 5000 series tomorrow, and we ordered immediately, I wouldn't be shocked if delivery was in June.

As a consumer I would probably be willing to wait, but these are business systems, where a computer in the hand is usually more important than a spec-bump later.

a lot of the different bench mark tests are not really going to give you an accurate answer for performance. You need to look at the software you are using and what you are using it for.
Yes, "The benchmark that's most important is the task you personally are going to do with it." That's the point in doing more than one test, picking ones that are indicative of performance on specific tasks people might be interested in, and why I offered to run other things for people who might have specific things in mind.

If I use Blender all day, clearly I'll get more bang from my buck from a Wintel machine. That may change with better GPU optimization, but as of today, NVIDIA (and probably AMD) come out well ahead.

If I'm doing gaming-type realtime 3D with a Metal-optimized program of the sort GFXBench has built in, on the other hand, with these particular computers I'd get anywhere from 30% to 2.5x better framerates (I showed offscreen numbers, but onscreen performance was similar, just off a bit due to different screen resolutions).

If I use Adobe apps all day, then I don't have any tests for that, but others obviously do.

If I use Word all day, then it really doesn't matter at all, since ten times faster than 0.01s is only 0.1s, so just about anything I can buy is sufficient.
 
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