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Large Storage Solution (What do you think?)

I have four orphaned drives from old computer. I do not want any RAID capability, but rather, simply access to four drives housed in one, inexpensive, Snow Leopard compatible enclosure. FW or USB 2.0.

It seems like every single multi-bay enclosure out there includes RAID support(?)
 
kirkbross said:
I have four orphaned drives from old computer. I do not want any RAID capability, but rather, simply access to four drives housed in one, inexpensive, Snow Leopard compatible enclosure. FW or USB 2.0.

It seems like every single multi-bay enclosure out there includes RAID support(?)
Click to expand...
It's common for such products to have RAID support. But you don't have to use it either. You can opt to use them as single disks if you wish (unless the specifications indicate it's only usable in a single configuration).

You'll have to look closely at the information on it, particularly the specifications.
 
nanofrog said:
It's common for such products to have RAID support. But you don't have to use it either. You can opt to use them as single disks if you wish (unless the specifications indicate it's only usable in a single configuration).

You'll have to look closely at the information on it, particularly the specifications.
Click to expand...
If I got this Icy Dock enclosure and put four drives in it and used the USB connection, would all four drives mount?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817198044

What are the advantages of eSATA enclosure with a PCI card w/ port multiplier support? (over USB or FW)
 
kirkbross said:
If I got this Icy Dock enclosure and put four drives in it and used the USB connection, would all four drives mount?
Click to expand...
Yes. The unit is system agnostic (USB 2.0 will work, and eSATA so long as you've a card that has driver support for OS X). In this particular case, the eSATA card will NOT be able to boot (but there's at least one EFI capable card out there, just pricey).

kirkbross said:
What are the advantages of eSATA enclosure with a PCI card w/ port multiplier support? (over USB or FW)
Click to expand...
It's faster (see other thread).

USB 2.0 is good up to 60MB/s, while eSATA is good up to 270MB/s. Quite a difference, as both are low cost solutions.
 
kirkbross said:
If I got this Icy Dock enclosure and put four drives in it and used the USB connection, would all four drives mount?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817198044

What are the advantages of eSATA enclosure with a PCI card w/ port multiplier support? (over USB or FW)
Click to expand...

Here's some tests showing the real-world differences between eSATA, FW, and USB2 on a Mac Pro and MacBook Pro...
http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-Drive-SATA-vs-Firewire.html

FW800 can actually be a decent solution when accessing just a single disk or JBOD (non RAID). For RAID, you absolutely want eSATA. I would only ever use USB for temporary convenience.
 
VirtualRain said:
Here's some tests showing the real-world differences between eSATA, FW, and USB2 on a Mac Pro and MacBook Pro...
http://macperformanceguide.com/Storage-Drive-SATA-vs-Firewire.html

FW800 can actually be a decent solution when accessing just a single disk or JBOD (non RAID). For RAID, you absolutely want eSATA. I would only ever use USB for temporary convenience.
Click to expand...
Well, I don't really need performance in this case -- this enclosure is for old drives that I periodically like to access to find old files and what not. Even for backup, I think the slow USB 2.0 would be okay. HOWEVER... it would be nice to have an eSATA option if I ever want to stick four identical SSDs in the enclosure and do a blazing RAID 0 or 0+1 setup. I would just want to make sure I got a "totally" Snow Leopard-compatible PCI card w/port multiplier support so I can access four drives from a single eSATA connection. I just RMA's my SansDigital TR4M because the Sil3132 card didn't have drivers for 10.6.4.

Any suggestions for eSATA/port multiplier PCI cards that are 100% compatible with Snow Leopard?

BTW... thanks for your help VirtualRain :)
 
kirkbross said:
Any suggestions for eSATA/port multiplier PCI cards that are 100% compatible with Snow Leopard?
Click to expand...

SIL3132 ;)

Maybe you simply installed the wrong drivers.
I've got a cheap SIL3132 card in my '09 Pro and it works flawlessly since 10.6.1. Never had any problems with drivers after software updates. Currently running 10.6.4.
 
VirtualRain said:
I would only ever use USB for temporary convenience.
Click to expand...
Boot capability for Windows might be desirable for some, as Windows no longer boots from FW.

kirkbross said:
Any suggestions for eSATA/port multiplier PCI cards that are 100% compatible with Snow Leopard?
Click to expand...
Newertech's MaxPower 6.0Gb/s eSATA RAID card (need it, as it's the only model that supports PM chips). It's not as cheap as the SIL3132 based cards, but there's been mixed reports on what drivers they do/don't work with (different cards & different driver sources).

Transporteur said:
SIL3132 ;)

Maybe you simply installed the wrong drivers.
I've got a cheap SIL3132 card in my '09 Pro and it works flawlessly since 10.6.1. Never had any problems with drivers after software updates. Currently running 10.6.4.
Click to expand...
It's not been consistent as to which drivers will work with the cards (some may differ from the reference design slightly, and affect their ability to use SIL's drivers, so other vendor's drivers may be required, as a driver modification would seem to have been implemented as a result).

At any rate, it's been inconsistent, and some users may be getting frustrated with having to try the different combinations to make it work (may be some cases they couldn't get the specific card on hand to work at all under OS X).
 
nanofrog said:
It's not been consistent as to which drivers will work with the cards (some may differ from the reference design slightly, and affect their ability to use SIL's drivers, so other vendor's drivers may be required, as a driver modification would seem to have been implemented as a result).
Click to expand...

No doubt that the SIL3132 are a pain in the ass. But what can you expect? You always get what you pay for.

However, before buying a new (and probably much more expensive) eSATA card, I recommend to test the Sonnet drivers. From what I've read on several sites all over the internetz, most 3132 based cards work just fine with these drivers.
Again, not all of them, but it's definitely worth a shot.
 
Transporteur said:
No doubt that the SIL3132 are a pain in the ass. But what can you expect? You always get what you pay for.

However, before buying a new (and probably much more expensive) eSATA card, I recommend to test the Sonnet drivers. From what I've read on several sites all over the internetz, most 3132 based cards work just fine with these drivers.
Again, not all of them, but it's definitely worth a shot.
Click to expand...
It's already RMA'd and received by newegg. Gonna review options now on what to buy.
 
Transporteur said:
No doubt that the SIL3132 are a pain in the ass. But what can you expect? You always get what you pay for.

However, before buying a new (and probably much more expensive) eSATA card, I recommend to test the Sonnet drivers. From what I've read on several sites all over the internetz, most 3132 based cards work just fine with these drivers.
Again, not all of them, but it's definitely worth a shot.
Click to expand...
If the card was still on hand, I'd absolutely agree. But it's already been returned, so it's up to kirkbross to decide if the lower cost is worth the hassle (order a new card; try here for low cost), or go with another, such as the Newertech card I linked previously. ;)

The SIL3132 is actually a decent chip for what it is. The Newertech cards are using a Marvell 6.0Gb/s chip (some other cards are using the same Marvell controller chip from what I can tell).
 
kirkbross said:
Well, I don't really need performance in this case -- this enclosure is for old drives that I periodically like to access to find old files and what not. Even for backup, I think the slow USB 2.0 would be okay. HOWEVER... it would be nice to have an eSATA option if I ever want to stick four identical SSDs in the enclosure and do a blazing RAID 0 or 0+1 setup. I would just want to make sure I got a "totally" Snow Leopard-compatible PCI card w/port multiplier support so I can access four drives from a single eSATA connection. I just RMA's my SansDigital TR4M because the Sil3132 card didn't have drivers for 10.6.4.

Any suggestions for eSATA/port multiplier PCI cards that are 100% compatible with Snow Leopard?

BTW... thanks for your help VirtualRain :)
Click to expand...

I FXXKING hate high point. But you can use High Point 2314 card as a JBOD card. Yes I know the card is a RAID 5 card but their RAFID engine is junk, maybe a refine version from junk but still is JUNK.
I have a lot of returns from customers and we use it as a JBOD card.
and yes it works.
 
joaoferro37 said:
I FXXKING hate high point. But you can use High Point 2314 card as a JBOD card. Yes I know the card is a RAID 5 card but their RAFID engine is junk, maybe a refine version from junk but still is JUNK.
I have a lot of returns from customers and we use it as a JBOD card.
and yes it works.
Click to expand...
Its a Fake RAID controller, so it's not suited for RAID 5. Anyone who attempts it, is going to get burnt (matter of when, not if).

That said, it's not even viable for JBOD (would expect it to be sufficient for that)?
If that's the case, it really is a POS.

Some of their products work, but others don't. Mixed bag from what I can tell, and that doesn't inspire trust in the brand IMO.

But this isn't uncommon for companies that use ODM suppliers for their products (validation testing tends to be minimal, as they want to start shipping in order to recoup their expenses and make a profit = rush it out the door). The CalDigit RAID Card was a classic example of this (even the engineer I spoke with there was frustrated with it; helpful personality, but that can't make up for a bad product).
 
CalDigit VR and AV Drive benchmark Review

nanofrog said:
Its a Fake RAID controller, so it's not suited for RAID 5. Anyone who attempts it, is going to get burnt (matter of when, not if).

That said, it's not even viable for JBOD (would expect it to be sufficient for that)?
If that's the case, it really is a POS.

Some of their products work, but others don't. Mixed bag from what I can tell, and that doesn't inspire trust in the brand IMO.

But this isn't uncommon for companies that use ODM suppliers for their products (validation testing tends to be minimal, as they want to start shipping in order to recoup their expenses and make a profit = rush it out the door). The CalDigit RAID Card was a classic example of this (even the engineer I spoke with there was frustrated with it; helpful personality, but that can't make up for a bad product).
Click to expand...

Yes, it is another junk card in the market but it solved at least on problem.
The 3124 and 3132 chipset are not fully compatible with 10.6. The go around is using a Marvell chipset eSATA card as a port multiple esata card.
Yes use a RAID card as a JBOD card.

BTW, I saw the CalDigit AV Drive benchmark test results on their website.
http://www.caldigit.com/AVDrive/performance.html

Another lie. * All FireWire 800 interface enclosure can reach around 80MB/s to 88MB/s depending on HDDs.

I think they need to distinguish marketing from lying.
 
joaoferro37 said:
Yes, it is another junk card in the market but it solved at least on problem.
The 3124 and 3132 chipset are not fully compatible with 10.6. The go around is using a Marvell chipset eSATA card as a port multiple esata card.
Yes use a RAID card as a JBOD card.
Click to expand...
I wish there was sufficient information to determine what's going on with the SIL3132 and OS X, as some have been successful, while others haven't.

I don't know if the actual card used has deviated from SIL's reference design (i.e. used cheaper parts or eliminated filters for example, that's causing noise, jitter,... type issues), or if any changes would require adjustments to the drivers (i.e. some companies like Sonnet offer drivers as well; maybe they were adjusted a bit for timings).

At any rate, SIL3132 cards do have a particular place in MP's though. Specifically when a user creates an array under Disk Utility, and wants to run Windows/Linux as well. Since Windows/Linux won't boot once an array has been created this way, it's a simple and inexpensive work-around by moving the Windows/Linux disk to a separate controller.

There's one particular card available on eBay (newegg too, but it's more money, and appears to be an identical card, save the color of the solder mask) that has internal ports as well (set via jumpers). All of the other versions I've seen are eSATA only. But jumpers and internal SATA ports alone wouldn't cause it not to function (just traces, not adding/removing components that affect the circuit's operational characteristics).

joaoferro37 said:
BTW, I saw the CalDigit AV Drive benchmark test results on their website.
http://www.caldigit.com/AVDrive/performance.html

Another lie. * All FireWire 800 interface enclosure can reach around 80MB/s to 88MB/s depending on HDDs.

I think they need to distinguish marketing from lying.
Click to expand...
Note the file size of 1.0GB. It helps push the numbers, but CalDigit is definitely liberal with their marketing claims vs. reality.
 
You could always make a Blackblaze Pod if you want tons of storage (with some basic RAID protection) on a relative budget. It isn't EMC level, but if one needs capacity, this should do the trick.
 
mlts22 said:
You could always make a Blackblaze Pod if you want tons of storage (with some basic RAID protection) on a relative budget. It isn't EMC level, but if one needs capacity, this should do the trick.
Click to expand...
Systems like this are becoming more common (i.e. ZFS).

It's definitely cost effective, as there's minimal hardware costs beyond the HDDs (just some cheap SATA controller cards or large port count non RAID HBA, such as that offered by Areca or ATTO).
 
nanofrog said:
Systems like this are becoming more common (i.e. ZFS).

It's definitely cost effective, as there's minimal hardware costs beyond the HDDs (just some cheap SATA controller cards or large port count non RAID HBA, such as that offered by Areca or ATTO).
Click to expand...

I can't believe we're already talking about storage in Petabytes... 1,000,000,000,000,000 :eek:
 
VirtualRain said:
I can't believe we're already talking about storage in Petabytes... 1,000,000,000,000,000 :eek:
Click to expand...
The methodology may not be used for that much capacity for most yet (i.e. fewer "boxes" strung together), but its possible to keep scaling it.

The ZFS methodolgy even adds in redundancy (i.e. Z-RAID & Z-RAID2). Then you can even nest those (similar to 50/60, but without the write hole).
 
I will not use silicon image 3132 nor 3124 solution for larger RAID.
These two chipset simply don't work, not reliable.
Yes it is cheap.
Will I use this for my clients who need large storage, NO.
 
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