Last minute hesitation: 4 disk RAID0 or 3 disk RAID0 + extra disk?

[Loa]

Hello,

While waiting for my four 500GB RE3 drives to arrive, I'm not sure whether I should do the 4 drive RAID0 I've been planning, or make a 3 disk RAID0 with one individual disk on the side.

Thing is: I'm pretty much constantly downloading stuff at 300KS/s, and very often burning DVDs at 20X.

When I do that on my current 1 drive set-up, I get a very significant slowdown, particularly while burning. But even downloading at those pretty average speeds, I sometimes get "hiccups" while watching movies.

What I was thinking: put my downloads (and thus most of my to-burn data) on that extra disk where I don't need speed, and keep the three drive RAID0 for the rest of my stuff.

Or would a four drive RAID0 resolve my problems?

Thanks

Loa

 

[davepk]

Keep the 4 drive raid and add a 2TB drive in the second optical bay.

use that 2TB for Time Machine and as a SuperDuper clone of the array.

I've been running a similar setup and it works great. Especially when one of the 4 raid drives decides to take a dump and needs to be replaced.

 

[Loa]

Keep the 4 drive raid and add a 2TB drive in the second optical bay.

My back-up drive (not TM though: I hate it with a passion) is already in the second optical bay.

My question was about the fact that, with constant downloads and a 4 disk RAID0, the entire RAID would be working 24/7. When I'd work, the RAID would be constantly writing data while at the same time meeting my work needs.

Loa

 

[Tesselator]

I wonder where the hiccups are coming from? I mean is it the constant drive pulsing or the network activity... When I have torrents going at 8 to 10 MB/s I notice two things.

1: The more connections I allow the more hiccups I get.
2: A single file coming down and going up at 8 MB/s causes almost no hiccups.

This makes me think that the hiccups are caused somewhere upstream of the drives and controller and probably the network - and probably related to the number of total connections. I DL films and I search by #of seeds available - so I often get 1000 to 2000 connections per torrent - if I don't limit it then it's total hiccupsville.

The other thing I wonder is how slow the 500GB drives are. Most of the 500GB drives I've looked at are total performance dogs compared to 1TB or 1.5TB drives. So if their as doggy as I'm thinking then I would want 4 in the RAID0.

<shrug>

PS: yes, you're reading that right: eight to ten megabytes per second.

 

[Loa]

Just to make sure we're on the same page: hiccups are during video playback, not in downloads. But it could be related to VLC; I could try with Quicktime.

The other thing I wonder is how slow the 500GB drives are. Most of the 500GB drives I've looked at are total performance dogs compared to 1TB or 1.5TB drives. So if their as doggy as I'm thinking then I would want 4 in the RAID0.

I know. But I was trying to balance speed and reliability with price. I do a lot of PS work, but it's not my job... The speed difference with my regular 640GB drive will be night and day in any case.

PS: yes, you're reading that right: eight to ten megabytes per second.

Haha! In Canada those speeds are quite unheard, at least at the consumer level. Getting 10Mb/s (not 10MB/s) is just about the best you can have.

Loa

 

[geoffreak]

PS: yes, you're reading that right: eight to ten megabytes per second.

Mind sharing your location, ISP, and rated internet speed?

 

[Tesselator]

Just to make sure we're on the same page: hiccups are during video playback, not in downloads. But it could be related to VLC; I could try with Quicktime.

Yep, by hiccup I mean a brief stall or short hang in any of several other application. I've never ever seen it in VLC but something heavier like FCP, iMovie, PhotoShop 11, etc.

I know. But I was trying to balance speed and reliability with price. I do a lot of PS work, but it's not my job... The speed difference with my regular 640GB drive will be night and day in any case.

Yeah, 640GB drive seem to be the same dogs as 500GB drives so it's like 1 very slow drive vs 3 or 4 very slow drives in a RAID0 - which should indeed be night and day as you say. Why, what do 500GB drives go for these days?

Haha! In Canada those speeds are quite unheard, at least at the consumer level. Getting 10Mb/s (not 10MB/s) is just about the best you can have.

Loa

Mind sharing your location, ISP, and rated internet speed?

I live in Japan - and since I just admitted DLing movies I'll skip the ISP name but it's 120Mb full duplex FO (no copper). I pay $45 a month for that and basic telephone service - no caps or byte limitations. I think they offer some server space like 100 Gigs but I've not looked into using it. Actually, in the past few months they have been capping torrent speed to 2 MB/s up but not the down speed - during work hours only. It kinda works out good for leaching tho.

I dunno crap about networking! If you ever wanna baffle me into total confusion just mention some aspect of TCP/IP or something.

 

[nanofrog]

Hello,

While waiting for my four 500GB RE3 drives to arrive, I'm not sure whether I should do the 4 drive RAID0 I've been planning, or make a 3 disk RAID0 with one individual disk on the side.

Thing is: I'm pretty much constantly downloading stuff at 300KS/s, and very often burning DVDs at 20X.

When I do that on my current 1 drive set-up, I get a very significant slowdown, particularly while burning. But even downloading at those pretty average speeds, I sometimes get "hiccups" while watching movies.

What I was thinking: put my downloads (and thus most of my to-burn data) on that extra disk where I don't need speed, and keep the three drive RAID0 for the rest of my stuff.

Or would a four drive RAID0 resolve my problems?

Thanks

Loa

Put all the drives in the array. You're problem is originating elsewhere.

I live in Japan - and since I just admitted DLing movies I'll skip the ISP name but it's 120Mb full duplex FO (no copper). I pay $45 a month for that and basic telephone service - no caps or byte limitations. I think they offer some server space like 100 Gigs but I've not looked into using it. Actually, in the past few months they have been capping torrent speed to 2 MB/s up but not the down speed - during work hours only. It kinda works out good for leaching tho.

I hate you....lucky <censored>.

The US is too slow, and caps are getting common. Grrr....

 

[Loa]

Why, what do 500GB drives go for these days?

Well prices vary a lot from country to country. (So does internet access speeds and costs!)

Best canadian price I could get for those 500GB RE3 drives is 100CDN$. Going to 1TB RE3 means 200CDN$. Multiply that by four...

I could have gone with 1TB drives like the Caviar Black, for 100CDN$ each. But I was told by many people (Nano, notably), that raid-class drives would be better for a RAID (sounds self-evident when written out like that!).

1.5-2TB drives are still ridiculously expensive here.

And since total capacity was irrelevant for my needs anyway, and RAID reliability (RE3) was more important than an extra edge in speed (Blacks), I chose the smaller and slightly slower 500GB RE3s.

I checked some review sites with transfer speeds for both the 500GB RE3s and the 1TB Caviar Blacks. Was a bit surprised: 125MB/s Vs 106MB/s. The 1TB Samsungs were rated (at the same site, so I suppose same method) at 175MB/s.

But then again, I was only interested in raid-class drives.

2TB of total storage and four disk RAID0 speeds should be enough for me until I change my Mac Pro.

Loa

 

[Loa]

Put all the drives in the array. You're problem is originating elsewhere.

Ready to try, but what else but slow drive speed can explain the hiccups?

The US is too slow, and caps are getting common. Grrr....

I think we're pretty much in the same boat in Canada... Caps started on p2p traffic this week in my neighborhood. Around 60KB/s. It's very bad and I can't manage to circumvent it.

Loa

 

[nanofrog]

Ready to try, but what else but slow drive speed can explain the hiccups?

I'd think the software, or even the specific drive, rather than any drive. That is, maybe there's an issue with the disk currently installed, but software is more likely IMO.

I think we're pretty much in the same boat in Canada... Caps started on p2p traffic this week in my neighborhood. Around 60KB/s. It's very bad and I can't manage to circumvent it.

AFIAK, it can't be gotten around. Most countries lag behind Japan, from what I've noticed.

North American network operators (ISP's) are happy to keep the hardware where it is, to make more $$$, rather than upgrade it. That's why I don't see things like On Demand services doing well here. Not until the network infrastructure is upgraded to allow adequate bandwidth. It's not necessarily the equipment is too old, just not enough of it to give the same bandwidth settings per user. It all comes down to greed IMO.

 

[Tesselator]

I think we're pretty much in the same boat in Canada... Caps started on p2p traffic this week in my neighborhood. Around 60KB/s. It's very bad and I can't manage to circumvent it.

Loa

When an ISP caps here in Japan everyone abandons it. About 8 months ago I abandon my other ISP that was 100Mb. They put a full time cap on torrents at 1MB/s for both Up and Down. Screw that! They promised 100Mb. Then they started sending me notices in the mail about this or that filename being (c). How do they know I'm not with the SPA running an entrapment scheme or something. LOL So I dumped them! This is 10$ a month cheaper and I get a better Quake ping to the USA. There are 100s of ISPs here and new ones opening up for business every day. I don't need to put up with caps.

 

[Loa]

I'd think the software, or even the specific drive, rather than any drive. That is, maybe there's an issue with the disk currently installed, but software is more likely IMO.

It's probably with LVC. I had the same exact issue with my iMac: when the download speeds were close to their max (measly 325KB/s), I got stutters in VLC.

But I think I know why: when playing movies over a network, VLC buffers its data in very intense (fast) reads, then leaves the network drive alone for a minute, then stutters for a second before filling its buffer very fast.

Quicktime, on the other hand, had an altogether different approach: it was constantly filling its buffer at a slow speed. Result: no stutters over the network.

But I'm used to VLC and love it's ability to read just about anything...

Loa

 

[nanofrog]

It's probably with LVC. I had the same exact issue with my iMac: when the download speeds were close to their max (measly 325KB/s), I got stutters in VLC.

But I think I know why: when playing movies over a network, VLC buffers its data in very intense (fast) reads, then leaves the network drive alone for a minute, then stutters for a second before filling its buffer very fast.

Quicktime, on the other hand, had an altogether different approach: it was constantly filling its buffer at a slow speed. Result: no stutters over the network.

But I'm used to VLC and love it's ability to read just about anything...

Loa

Is there a buffer setting that can be changed in VLC?
It seems it would be worth a look.

 

[DoFoT9]

I wonder where the hiccups are coming from? I mean is it the constant drive pulsing or the network activity... When I have torrents going at 8 to 10 MB/s I notice two things.

1: The more connections I allow the more hiccups I get.
2: A single file coming down and going up at 8 MB/s causes almost no hiccups.

This makes me think that the hiccups are caused somewhere upstream of the drives and controller and probably the network - and probably related to the number of total connections. I DL films and I search by #of seeds available - so I often get 1000 to 2000 connections per torrent - if I don't limit it then it's total hiccupsville.

with that many incoming and outgoing connections its no wonder why it skips like crazy! they may be small data packages but that takes a lot more processing then just one big one, each time a connection comes in it must be decoded, put back together and a whole bunch of stuff. there is tons of data being moved "under the hood".

The other thing I wonder is how slow the 500GB drives are. Most of the 500GB drives I've looked at are total performance dogs compared to 1TB or 1.5TB drives. So if their as doggy as I'm thinking then I would want 4 in the RAID0.

i donno anything about the HD and their performance so ill keep my mouth shut haha

PS: yes, you're reading that right: eight to ten megabytes per second.

bastard! max i can get is ADSL2+ (at 20mbitsps).

I live in Japan - and since I just admitted DLing movies I'll skip the ISP name but it's 120Mb full duplex FO (no copper). I pay $45 a month for that and basic telephone service - no caps or byte limitations. I think they offer some server space like 100 Gigs but I've not looked into using it. Actually, in the past few months they have been capping torrent speed to 2 MB/s up but not the down speed - during work hours only. It kinda works out good for leaching tho.

only have the one ISP that suppliers ADSL2+ around here, they own the ISP and wont let competitors in (the government has forced them to allow them in, but it will take time). i am on a 25gb cap, wooohooo...

I dunno crap about networking! If you ever wanna baffle me into total confusion just mention some aspect of TCP/IP or something.

hmm how odd, you know a billion about HDDs but not really anything about networking?? im getting into this area, its really really interesting learning about all the protocols and the network layer. so much fun!

It's probably with LVC. I had the same exact issue with my iMac: when the download speeds were close to their max (measly 325KB/s), I got stutters in VLC.

But I think I know why: when playing movies over a network, VLC buffers its data in very intense (fast) reads, then leaves the network drive alone for a minute, then stutters for a second before filling its buffer very fast.

Quicktime, on the other hand, had an altogether different approach: it was constantly filling its buffer at a slow speed. Result: no stutters over the network.

But I'm used to VLC and love it's ability to read just about anything...

Loa

id say it is VLC, its a DOG of a program. you should try using Plex or something similar to it. it manages to play BluRay ripped movies on my original MBP when VLC/QT have NO chance of doing it. its a mac only program and has been coded for performance in mind!! (unlike VLC/QT). maybe it can help you?

however in saying that i havent really had any problems streaming VLC over the network, what connection type are you using?? (wireless, gigabit ethernet etc).

p.s. Plex can read just about everything too, and it does a whole bunch of other stuff.

p.s.s. just had a look in VLC and couldnt really find anything about the packet size/timing of the incoming data, there was some wierd setting for outgoing data but thats not really relevent.

 

[Loa]

id say it is VLC, its a DOG of a program. you should try using Plex or something similar to it. it manages to play BluRay ripped movies on my original MBP when VLC/QT have NO chance of doing it. its a mac only program and has been coded for performance in mind!! (unlike VLC/QT). maybe it can help you?

Downloading Plex right now, will play with it tomorrow.

Thanks for the tip!

Loa

 

[DoFoT9]

Downloading Plex right now, will play with it tomorrow.

Thanks for the tip!

Loa

thats ok, its a very big learning curve even for the more educated, dont feel bad if you have to read the manual that comes with it, i did!! its a great experience once you get used to it. goodluck!

 

[Tesselator]

hmm how odd, you know a billion about HDDs but not really anything about networking?? im getting into this area, its really really interesting learning about all the protocols and the network layer. so much fun!

Yeah, I guess I should learn. It's kind of a drag not knowing this stuff. Like trying to open a port on my ISP's router for serving Quake. If i open it then I can't connect to it from a local machine - if I don't then I can't serve - and I have no idea why. UG!. And there's sooooo much to learn too - it seems so daunting.

You should try using Plex or something similar to it.

This: http://www.plexapp.com/? I'm gonna give it a try too. Thanks!

p.s.s. just had a look in VLC and couldnt really find anything about the packet size/timing of the incoming data, there was some wierd setting for outgoing data but thats not really relevent.

The VLC prefs are extensive on a Windoze box. On a mac there's almost nothing - it's REALLY slimmed down. If you press ⇧⌘W it gives you something called a "Streaming/Transcoding Wizard" tho. Is that what you're looking for?


EDIT:
I tried Plex. It's GUI is totally bugged. Pointer comes and goes unexplainably, , no window resize, no double click for Full screen, Full screen doesn't blank the second monitor, Opening Plex causes any playing audio to freeze momentarily, Can't have multiple windows open, doesn't default to actual size when opening, no playback information, no transport controls, menu access halts playback and then it plays at 500 FPS to catch up, and it's 100 MB in size.

 

[DoFoT9]

Yeah, I guess I should learn. It's kind of a drag not knowing this stuff. Like trying to open a port on my ISP's router for serving Quake. If i open it then I can't connect to it from a local machine - if I don't then I can't serve - and I have no idea why. UG!. And there's sooooo much to learn too - it seems so daunting.

BAHA quake, i remember playing that game. so old, pretty decent but. would have to look into your problem more to solve it

This: http://www.plexapp.com/? I'm gonna give it a try too. Thanks!

yup thats it!

The VLC prefs are extensive on a Windoze box. On a mac there's almost nothing - it's REALLY slimmed down. If you press ⇧⌘W it gives you something called a "Streaming/Transcoding Wizard" tho. Is that what you're looking for?

nah thats the same as "exporting" in QT, not the same. there is a tick box in the preferences down the bottom left that shows the advanced settings.

EDIT:
I tried Plex. It's GUI is totally bugged. Pointer comes and goes unexplainably, , no window resize, no double click for Full screen, Full screen doesn't blank the second monitor, Opening Plex causes any playing audio to freeze momentarily, Can't have multiple windows open, doesn't default to actual size when opening, no playback information, no transport controls, menu access halts playback and then it plays at 500 FPS to catch up, and it's 100 MB in size.

hahahahahahahahahaha so you see what i mean by it takes a bit of getting used to?? its sort of an alternative to front row, with a few extra things.

it is VERY different to what we are used to, +0 is full screen. i like not having the other monitor go black, but you can probably change that.

hit the "I" key for playback information, gives you a range of feedback.
hit "m" for their version of the menu whilst in playback.

did you play it over the network? i havent had any problems.. what connection method are you using??

like i said, its a bit confusing at first - reading their tutorials and manuals is definitely recommended.

p.s. going on holidays wont be back for a few days

 

[hehejames]

PS: yes, you're reading that right: eight to ten megabytes per second.

Tesselator - Are you on Fios or uVerse? I'm loving my 25Mb/s down/up very much!

 

[Tesselator]

BAHA quake, i remember playing that game. so old, pretty decent but. would have to look into your problem more to solve it

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=8D55E1E554365459&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL

did you play it over the network? i havent had any problems.. what connection method are you using??

Nah, just a local AVI.

like i said, its a bit confusing at first - reading their tutorials and manuals is definitely recommended.

Yeah, I read all the keys and stuff.

p.s. going on holidays wont be back for a few days

Have fun! Take pics and post them up!

Tesselator - Are you on Fios or uVerse? I'm loving my 25Mb/s down/up very much!

Fios or uVerse? No, I'm from Earth... Honest!

 

[Loa]

Tesselator - Are you on Fios or uVerse? I'm loving my 25Mb/s down/up very much!

Wonder why he hasn't pointed it out, or maybe you misspelled Mb/s:

Tess is getting 10MB/s, which is around 80Mb/s.

Loa

 

[Tesselator]

Wonder why he hasn't pointed it out, or maybe you misspelled Mb/s:

Tess is getting 10MB/s, which is around 80Mb/s.

Loa

Yeah, I don't get the full 120Mb (15 MB) per second out of torrents. Probably too many connections clogging it up paired with my proximity to the physical service provider's location. The best I ever actually get (Apple updates, NASA downloads, Network Testing utilities) is 12 MB/s ~ 12.5 MB/s. This might be due to the fact that my Mac insists on connecting to my 1000BASE-T HUB at "100Mbps" and not 1000Mbps. I'm guessing tho - because the XBox360 gets much closer to to the full 15 MB/s. and it's not going through the HUB but rather is connected directly to the ISP's supplied router.

 

[DoFoT9]

im back!!!!! wooooooo

http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=8D55E1E554365459&playnext=1&playnext_from=PL

oh wowzers! thats crazy

Nah, just a local AVI.

WHAT!? thats rediculous.. how could it skip while on the local?? ugh.. that doesnt make any sense.

Yeah, I read all the keys and stuff.

haha well you shouldnt have any problems then should you

Have fun! Take pics and post them up!

i didnt get any pictures, hardly worth it where i was.

Fios or uVerse? No, I'm from Earth... Honest!

telstra anyone???

 

[Tesselator]

im back!!!!! wooooooo

WB Broski!

oh wowzers! thats crazy

Yup, I really dig Q3a! If I might be allowed to brag a bit I was ranked #4 world-wide in the 4th year of the game. Currently I'm #22 which is down a lot considering maybe only one tenth the number of people are still playing it (still a lot BTW). I like it better than Quake4 tho! Most of that video is a free Mod called "Defrag" which is a skillz improvement environment for the good wanting to get better. It's a blast!

WHAT!? thats rediculous.. how could it skip while on the local?? ugh.. that doesnt make any sense.

haha well you shouldnt have any problems then should you

Yeah, it's REALLY buggy on my system. I uninstalled rather quickly after reading all the info to make sure it wasn't user error.

i didnt get any pictures, hardly worth it where i was.

Ahhhhhh....

telstra anyone???

--
Loa probably hates us now for taking her thread OT so far.