latest sonoma update (14.3.1) causing issues in Logic

[3SQ Machine]

February sonoma update is causing a weird problem in logic. In another thread I was trying to figure out why a bunch of new macs I wanted to buy were worse than my M1 Pro. In certain worklfows logic was spiking the CPU/GPU and causing choppiness--much more than my M1 Pro. I can't tell you how many machines I returned thinking the newer macs were downgrades. It turns out they were all just running the most recent sonoma version, which has issues for logic.

It all became clear yesterday when I did the most recent sonoma update (14.3.1) on my trusty old 16" M1 Pro which has been great since I bought it the first month it came out. Before the update--buttery smooth. After update? Same choppiness problem as the other newer machines. My M1 Pro was already running sonoma, just not the february update.

I've notified the logic team at Apple Support and they've told engineering. They've been getting other reports of this.

So... don't do the most recent update until this is sorted. I've reinstalled macOS ventura from a time machine backup on my M1 Pro and ALL IS WELL now. I haven't quite figured out how to update to an earlier release of sonoma and not 14.3.1 but that will be a different project for another time.

 

[fisherking]

February sonoma update is causing a weird problem in logic. In another thread I was trying to figure out why a bunch of new macs I wanted to buy were worse than my M1 Pro. In certain worklfows logic was spiking the CPU/GPU and causing choppiness--much more than my M1 Pro. I can't tell you how many machines I returned thinking the newer macs were downgrades. It turns out they were all just running the most recent sonoma version, which has issues for logic.

It all became clear yesterday when I did the most recent sonoma update (14.3.1) on my trusty old 16" M1 Pro which has been great since I bought it the first month it came out. Before the update--buttery smooth. After update? Same choppiness problem as the other newer machines. My M1 Pro was already running sonoma, just not the february update.

I've notified the logic team at Apple Support and they've told engineering. They've been getting other reports of this.

So... don't do the most recent update until this is sorted. I've reinstalled macOS ventura from a time machine backup on my M1 Pro and ALL IS WELL now. I haven't quite figured out how to update to an earlier release of sonoma and not 14.3.1 but that will be a different project for another time.

no such issues here (on my M2 air). something is up for you, perhaps with logic's prefs, or a third-party plugin? just a guess tho, but am not experiencing choppiness of any sort (nor have i on on my previous m2 pro mini running sonoma up until end february)

 

[3SQ Machine]

no such issues here (on my M2 air). something is up for you, perhaps with logic's prefs, or a third-party plugin? just a guess tho, but am not experiencing choppiness of any sort (nor have i on on my previous m2 pro mini running sonoma up until end february)

It only shows up in certain workflows (e.g. high zoom level with scroll-in-play active) and hopefully your workflow is not one of them. It could also be something with promotion (?) on the pro line. I don’t have an air to test it on unfortunately, nor any solutions.

I systematically tested the newest Sonoma updates from Ventura forward and 14.1.2 is the latest version with minimal issues. This has been replicated on a fresh install with no third party prefs/ plugins . Been through the full testing with Apple and it’s not related to anything “personalized” as this can be replicated across new users on brand new machines using fresh installs of stock logic.

Again, it doesn’t show up everywhere so if you normally use logic zoomed out and don’t have a high track count for logic to scroll across the screen it won’t show up.

 

[fisherking]

It only shows up in certain workflows (e.g. high zoom level with scroll-in-play active) and hopefully your workflow is not one of them. It could also be something with promotion (?) on the pro line. I don’t have an air to test it on unfortunately, nor any solutions.

I systematically tested the newest Sonoma updates from Ventura forward and 14.1.2 is the latest version with minimal issues. This has been replicated on a fresh install with no third party prefs/ plugins . Been through the full testing with Apple and it’s not related to anything “personalized” as this can be replicated across new users on brand new machines using fresh installs of stock logic.

Again, it doesn’t show up everywhere so if you normally use logic zoomed out and don’t have a high track count for logic to scroll across the screen it won’t show up.

again, not happening here. are you finding other reports of this on logic forums? (ie apple's, or logicprohelp?). might be a better place to discuss this (& see if others are experiencing the issue)

 

[3SQ Machine]

again, not happening here. are you finding other reports of this on logic forums? (ie apple's, or logicprohelp?). might be a better place to discuss this (& see if others are experiencing the issue)

Yes, I'm on a reddit subforum discussing it, and fortunately it's not widespread but I also think a lot of people don't use scroll-in-play. However, I wanted to warn people because it may show up in other workflows that require some GPU usage in logic. Some Apple employees at the Apple store were complaining to me about this issue on their personal machines when I brought in some test projects to try out on the display units. Virtually every machine in the store displayed the same behavior with this project (and I could even replicate it on the Apple demo project).

Below is a screenshot of how the tracks (all audio) require minimal CPU usage but Logic spikes the GPU to almost 70% and gets choppy with scroll-in-play active tracking the playhead. M3 Pro running 14.3.1 -- you basically need about this number of tracks in view at a decently-paced clip AND have logic trying to move the labels of the tracks across the screen at the same time. It won't show up in other zoom levels or with less tracks+labels in view. It may not even be noticeable at 60 hz, but definitely monitor your GPU usage and if it's staying below 30% most of the time then there's nothing in your workflow that is causing the issue to crop up. Also, it doesn't seem to be causing audio problems (no clicks/pops/or system overloads) so that's reassuring.

 

[Truben]

Given that Spatial Audio is changing many things, I had the idea to enlist as a developer to have the latest software. Well then, since January, I had repeated issues with my Oeksound plugins that forced me to work around with Rosetta. Furthermore, Logic Pro does not close properly, and I have warnings. I swear the next update I have that does not need Rosetta, I will leave the developers program for good. Some people want to go back to Leopard. This is crazy. Of course, the feedback from Apple is zero. And I am really fed up with these updates for better emojis and childish things. Apple looks like Windows. Steve Jobs must be revolving in his grave.

 

[fisherking]

Given that Spatial Audio is changing many things, I had the idea to enlist as a developer to have the latest software. Well then, since January, I had repeated issues with my Oeksound plugins that forced me to work around with Rosetta. Furthermore, Logic Pro does not close properly, and I have warnings. I swear the next update I have that does not need Rosetta, I will leave the developers program for good. Some people want to go back to Leopard. This is crazy. Of course, the feedback from Apple is zero. And I am really fed up with these updates for better emojis and childish things. Apple looks like Windows. Steve Jobs must be revolving in his grave.

not everyone is having issues (am ok on 14.4, as i no longer own any ilok-required plugins). oeksound, using ilok, would be subject to these issues (and you should contact them for support).

all my 3rd-party plugins work, and i am keeping busy. so the sky is not falling. still, i sympathize with the issues you're experiencing, and hope you get things sorted out.

 

[Truben]

not everyone is having issues (am ok on 14.4, as i no longer own any ilok-required plugins). oeksound, using ilok, would be subject to these issues (and you should contact them for support).

all my 3rd-party plugins work, and i am keeping busy. so the sky is not falling. still, i sympathize with the issues you're experiencing, and hope you get things sorted out.

I'm a voice actor, so I'm not abusing of Logic Pro like a producer of a band. I only work with two tracks! However, Oeksound plugins are the best for voice, so I really need them. And yes, Oeksound crew told me about iLok issues but besides of getting everything updated, my hands are tied. As I wrote, next Sonoma that I can use without Rosetta, I'm leaving developers program for good.

 

[fisherking]

I'm a voice actor, so I'm not abusing of Logic Pro like a producer of a band. I only work with two tracks! However, Oeksound plugins are the best for voice, so I really need them. And yes, Oeksound crew told me about iLok issues but besides of getting everything updated, my hands are tied. As I wrote, next Sonoma that I can use without Rosetta, I'm leaving developers program for good.

bugs happen. meanwhile, there should be a fix soon; there are a lot of ilok users out there on macs. but i get it (about leaving the betas behind).

 

[fisherking]

the ilok issue seems resolved (i've had several people report that), with the 14.4.1 update today (25 march). good news for pace people!

 

[Truben]

the ilok issue seems resolved (i've had several people report that), with the 14.4.1 update today (25 march). good news for pace people!

Yes, it finally works! Now I'm thinking about leaving developers program for good before they **** it up again. It's like the old song! Should I stay or should I go?

 

[Macbookey]

Yes, it finally works! Now I'm thinking about leaving developers program for good before they **** it up again. It's like the old song! Should I stay or should I go?

I stopped the beta stuff as my dependency on 3rd party Logic plugins increased and I started using more vendors. Better safe than sorry, but I do miss getting the post WWDC betas. 😐

 

[Truben]

I stopped the beta stuff as my dependency on 3rd party Logic plugins increased and I started using more vendors. Better safe than sorry, but I do miss getting the post WWDC betas. 😐

Yes, better safe than sorry. It's my workflow and I cannot run it without plugins. It happened me twice already, so I'm with you.

 

[galad]

Audio apps and plugins are known to break after every smallest update on every operating system, so running biweekly beta seems a bit of a masochist thing 😜

 

[fisherking]

my livelihood is in logic, and i'm on the OS betas. there have been some bumps in the road, but i always get my work done. so i accept the risks, and i enjoy the challeng experience.

 

[Macbookey]

my livelihood is in logic, and i'm on the OS betas. there have been some bumps in the road, but i always get my work done. so i accept the risks, and i enjoy the challeng experience.

Yup, that internal battle between the practical mind and nerd in me are at constant war. 😵‍💫

 

[gank41]

FWIW, macOS 14.4.1 and Logic Pro 10.8.1 have been a disaster for me on my M1 MBP. For roughly 3 years I've been using either a Focusrite box with a bunch of mics, or 3 Blue Yeti mics setup as an aggregate device. All has been well for both setups for again, roughly 3 or so years. Now when recording with the Blue Yeti's, it seems like a crap shoot as to whether I'll get some kind of disk error or memory error. I always make sure to close out of any other running apps, free up memory before opening Logic, etc.. I'm always welcome to suggestions, but this ain't my first rodeo. I've been recording in general for roughly 30 some years. My experience with these latest updates has been horrific. Like, we just have to stop recording and in some cases scrap it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

[fisherking]

FWIW, macOS 14.4.1 and Logic Pro 10.8.1 have been a disaster for me on my M1 MBP. For roughly 3 years I've been using either a Focusrite box with a bunch of mics, or 3 Blue Yeti mics setup as an aggregate device. All has been well for both setups for again, roughly 3 or so years. Now when recording with the Blue Yeti's, it seems like a crap shoot as to whether I'll get some kind of disk error or memory error. I always make sure to close out of any other running apps, free up memory before opening Logic, etc.. I'm always welcome to suggestions, but this ain't my first rodeo. I've been recording in general for roughly 30 some years. My experience with these latest updates has been horrific. Like, we just have to stop recording and in some cases scrap it.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

this is not a common problem, so there's something specific with your setup. and might be worth contacting apple.

meanwhile, are you recording to the internal drive or an external? are all your 3rd-party plugins up-to-date? and are you running logic native, or thru rosetta2?

closing out other apps helps, but it might be more useful to reboot your mac before you start working in logic... and then open only logic...

 

[Papanate]

Yes, I'm on a reddit subforum discussing it, and fortunately it's not widespread but I also think a lot of people don't use scroll-in-play.

Below is a screenshot of how the tracks (all audio) require minimal CPU usage but Logic spikes the GPU to almost 70% and gets choppy with scroll-in-play active tracking the playhead. M3 Pro running 14.3.1 -- you basically need about this number o

View attachment 2356566

How do you get the GPU Meter and Performance Meter as part of Logic Pro?

 

[Papanate]

Again, it doesn’t show up everywhere so if you normally use logic zoomed out and don’t have a high track count for logic to scroll across the screen it won’t show up.

I haven’t come across this with a MacBook Pro M3 Pro machine - usually I’m in the 60 - 70 Track Count - quite a few Plugins (quite a lot of Logic Plugins) - busses with Plugins ( 3rd Party like Pulsar, Waves Abbey Road stuff etc…) - I’ve Zoomed in/out - haven’t come across anything acting strange - I’m on the latest Sonoma 14.1 - maybe it’s your Plugins that are causing the problem?

 

[3SQ Machine]

How do you get the GPU Meter and Performance Meter as part of Logic Pro?

I just had the GPU window from activity monitor set to "always be on top" and then have logic stretched to fill the screen (but NOT by selecting full-screen mode, which will hide the GPU window). That way, I can monitor the GPU spikes which correspond with the choppiness.

I haven’t come across this with a MacBook Pro M3 Pro machine - usually I’m in the 60 - 70 Track Count - quite a few Plugins (quite a lot of Logic Plugins) - busses with Plugins ( 3rd Party like Pulsar, Waves Abbey Road stuff etc…) - I’ve Zoomed in/out - haven’t come across anything acting strange - I’m on the latest Sonoma 14.1 - maybe it’s your Plugins that are causing the problem?

14.1 is A-OK -- it doesn't crop up until the later updates, anything 14.3.1 and beyond. I tested each update (using a separate installer) until I found the most recent that worked. 14.1.2 was the winner -- but each sonoma update taps the GPU more and more. I don't know why. I've got a case open with Apple support and they are (very slowly) looking into it.

I also have an M1 Pro running macos Ventura -- logic pro is buttery smooth with GPU usage barely > 5%. 14.1.2 sonoma gets it to 20% usage but it's still not noticeable, even though 3X compared to Ventura.

Oh, and on the plugins--that specific project (photo above) is all audio tracks with no plugins. Since I'm crazy, I also did a fresh install on a brand new machine (no data migration/no plugins)--just stock logic "essential sounds" library. Pulled up the project--same exact issue on Sonoma 14.3.1. I also replicated it at the Apple Store on their machines using their demo project.

Need to have lots of regions visible (with labels) for choppiness to crop up. It's something about logic trying to display the text as it scrolls the labels of the regions across the screen. It gets better if there's lots of "empty space" among the regions/tracks.

I've since ditched the M3 Pro and picked up an M3 Max out of hubris and wanting more performance cores. It's surprisingly still an issue--the extra GPU cores don't seem to make a difference.

Despite the choppiness, there doesn't seem to be any audio issue (crackles/pops) etc., so at least that's one reassuring thing. Also, if I just have the playhead scroll and not the tracks, it's barely noticeable at all.

 

[gank41]

I just had the GPU window from activity monitor set to "always be on top" and then have logic stretched to fill the screen (but NOT by selecting full-screen mode, which will hide the GPU window). That way, I can monitor the GPU spikes which correspond with the choppiness.

14.1 is A-OK -- it doesn't crop up until the later updates, anything 14.3.1 and beyond. I tested each update (using a separate installer) until I found the most recent that worked. 14.1.2 was the winner -- but each sonoma update taps the GPU more and more. I don't know why. I've got a case open with Apple support and they are (very slowly) looking into it.

I also have an M1 Pro running macos Ventura -- logic pro is buttery smooth with GPU usage barely > 5%. 14.1.2 sonoma gets it to 20% usage but it's still not noticeable, even though 3X compared to Ventura.

Oh, and on the plugins--that specific project (photo above) is all audio tracks with no plugins. Since I'm crazy, I also did a fresh install on a brand new machine (no data migration/no plugins)--just stock logic "essential sounds" library. Pulled up the project--same exact issue on Sonoma 14.3.1. I also replicated it at the Apple Store on their machines using their demo project.

Need to have lots of regions visible (with labels) for choppiness to crop up. It's something about logic trying to display the text as it scrolls the labels of the regions across the screen. It gets better if there's lots of "empty space" among the regions/tracks.

I've since ditched the M3 Pro and picked up an M3 Max out of hubris and wanting more performance cores. It's surprisingly still an issue--the extra GPU cores don't seem to make a difference.

Despite the choppiness, there doesn't seem to be any audio issue (crackles/pops) etc., so at least that's one reassuring thing. Also, if I just have the playhead scroll and not the tracks, it's barely noticeable at all.

What's unfortunate for me is that 14.1 was not good for me overall, but Logic did work fine. I don't have the luxury of installing an older version of macOS just to test it like you do. But thank you for doing so!

FWIW I do find that if I scroll down in Logic as to not show the existing tracks, just the ones I'm recording below them, it's "hit or miss" but find it to "work". I'm sometimes working with 12-18 channels from 3-9 inputs depending on what we're recording and where. I'll try having the playhead scroll along with the tracks, too, but that's kind important 😆

Here I was thinking that Apple was doing things to "force" folks to upgrade to newer equipment, maybe making some Pro apps have some issues on older machines. Nice to know this is still an issue with an M3 Max machine, though! I've been thinking about upgrading my M1 MBP, too, but I think I'll wait.

 

[3SQ Machine]

Here I was thinking that Apple was doing things to "force" folks to upgrade to newer equipment, maybe making some Pro apps have some issues on older machines. Nice to know this is still an issue with an M3 Max machine, though! I've been thinking about upgrading my M1 MBP, too, but I think I'll wait.

This is clearly some kind of Sonoma bug so until it's worked out unfortunately ever more power won't make it better. Hopefully it's something that will be coded differently so logic can delegate GPU tasks more efficiently. I will say that, though, that the load on the M3 Max CPU is better and the projects are smooth.

 

[fisherking]

This is clearly some kind of Sonoma bug so until it's worked out unfortunately ever more power won't make it better. Hopefully it's something that will be coded differently so logic can delegate GPU tasks more efficiently. I will say that, though, that the load on the M3 Max CPU is better and the projects are smooth.

or it's a 3rd-party plugin, or something in your template, or...

worth looking into, perhaps on a logic forum, or directly with apple.

my M2 air is working beautifully in logic (mostly 3rd-party plugins)... as all all my other apps.

 

[3SQ Machine]

or it's a 3rd-party plugin, or something in your template, or...

worth looking into, perhaps on a logic forum, or directly with apple.

my M2 air is working beautifully in logic (mostly 3rd-party plugins)... as all all my other apps.

Yes, unfortunately I wish it were just a plugin. Went through all the steps with apple (deleted all plugins, reset plist, etc.). Even did a fresh logic install (no plug-ins/no migration) on a brand new machine. I can replicate the issue anytime anywhere. I can even do it at the Apple store on their demo machines using their demo project. If you gave me 2 minutes with your machine I could show you, too. It's a sonoma bug--but fortunately only comes up with certain workflows and doesn't seem to affect audio--most importantly. Apple is "working on it" (slowly).