Lawsuit by Apple Retail Employees Over Off-the-Clock Bag Searches Dismissed

[happygodavid]

Having worked for Apple Retail for close to 4 years, my opinion is that this lawsuit is completely bogus. Glad it got dismissed. For a retail employee, I was treated FAR better at Apple than in any other retail position. I was respected. I was trusted. Sure, the job wasn't perfect, but this?? Seriously, folks. I left making $17/hr PART TIME with health insurance. Who the hell else in the grand ole USA paid a part time retail employee $17/hr w/ benefits (including health insurance) in 2011???? Mic drop.

Edit: They could be the company that takes retail employment from a "life season job" to a career (it's not a "career job," unless you want to be a retail manager). Here's hoping that they'll do just that with their employees. In fact, I'd submit that they are about the only company on the planet that could make just such a change that could affect the rest of the world. (E.g.- "Apple Retail Employees make a livable income at a minimum $....../year. First Retailer to pay their employees a livable wage..." Come on, Tim and Angela, I'm rooting for ya. Do the right thing.)

 

[macfacts]

Yeah, real smart. Quit based on not getting paid for a 30 second period of time (about 12 cents). If you prioritize 12 cents over all the other Apple retail perks, well.... that's just strange.

(or keep your '12 cents' by not bringing in backpacks to work)

30 seconds? Try multiplying by 60. From another article from cnet ... "employees at physical locations were required to stand in lines up to 30 minutes long every day for store managers to check their bags to ensure they weren't smuggling home stolen goods. Adding up these daily waits, the employees said they were deprived of dozens of hours of unpaid wages, which totaled about $1,500 per year."

12 cents? lol.

 

[eebrown]

Having worked for Apple Retail for close to 4 years, my opinion is that this lawsuit is completely bogus. Glad it got dismissed. For a retail employee, I was treated FAR better at Apple than in any other retail position. Sure, it wasn't perfect, but this?? Seriously, folks. I left making $17/hr PART TIME with health insurance. Who the hell else in the grand ole USA pays a retail part time employee $17/hr w/ benefits (including health insurance) in 2011???? Mic drop.

At the store where you work did they check the employees bag and if so how much time did the employee actually lose waiting to get their bags searched?

 

[palmfox]

Your argument is flawed in that you keep saying "When you bring something, it's YOUR problem."
Why is it that when the company wants to do these kinds of checks, it's not THEIR problem? People aren't making their "plans" and "extra activities" everyone else's burden. Companies are making it so people who actually LIVE a life outside the company have to compensate THEIR free time.

It's very simple, I bring my bag to work for things I am going to be doing in my personal time. My problem. You wanna do security checks, YOUR problem do it in your own time. You make it seem like standing in line is preferable to working, it's really not.

No, security checks are YOUR problem, as Apple warned you when you agreed to work there. Apple does not require you to bring anything to work. They supply it for you. The shirt, the EasyPay, etc. If you want to bring a lunch, they supply an area for employees to have such. As someone mentioned, Apple is not required to allow you any bags. So if you decide you must bring a bag for your own personal items, then it can be on your own personal time that it is searched.

Funny thing is, in some jobs, such as Aerospace, Courts, Military, etc, everyone has to go through a metal detector and/or x-ray, before they can get in the building. You should see the line during the morning, 15-20 minutes is easy. Don't hear them complaining do you? Why... its part of the job! They agreed to it when they took the job.

 

[blahblah100]

Perhaps the retail employees should form a union to ensure their interests are protected and represented.

 

[invisiblegt]

Exactly! How many people really work 8 hrs "Nonstop?" I would say each day is probably 5 or 6 hours of real work and 2 hours doing stuff like lunch, walking and bathroom breaks, etc.

Who wastes two or three hours of their day on things like that? In my eight hour day, I spend ten minutes eating, typically one two minute bathroom break, and that's it. There are a few small conversations with coworkers here and there, but they amount to about ten minutes total over the course of the day. And many of those are in regards to work-related matters, so...

Other than that, my day is spent working.

 

[C DM]

No, security checks are YOUR problem, as Apple warned you when you agreed to work there. Apple does not require you to bring anything to work. They supply it for you. The shirt, the EasyPay, etc. If you want to bring a lunch, they supply an area for employees to have such. As someone mentioned, Apple is not required to allow you any bags. So if you decide you must bring a bag for your own personal items, then it can be on your own personal time that it is searched.

Funny thing is, in some jobs, such as Aerospace, Courts, Military, etc, everyone has to go through a metal detector and/or x-ray, before they can get in the building. You should see the line during the morning, 15-20 minutes is easy. Don't hear them complaining do you? Why... its part of the job! They agreed to it when they took the job.

And now let's apply that to actual reality vs a theoretical universe.

Having worked for Apple Retail for close to 4 years, my opinion is that this lawsuit is completely bogus. Glad it got dismissed. For a retail employee, I was treated FAR better at Apple than in any other retail position. I was respected. I was trusted. Sure, the job wasn't perfect, but this?? Seriously, folks. I left making $17/hr PART TIME with health insurance. Who the hell else in the grand ole USA paid a part time retail employee $17/hr w/ benefits (including health insurance) in 2011???? Mic drop.

Edit: They could be the company that takes retail employment from a "life season job" to a career (it's not a "career job," unless you want to be a retail manager). Here's hoping that they'll do just that with their employees. In fact, I'd submit that they are about the only company on the planet that could make just such a change that could affect the rest of the world. (E.g.- "Apple Retail Employees make a livable income at a minimum $....../year. First Retailer to pay their employees a livable wage..." Come on, Tim and Angela, I'm rooting for ya. Do the right thing.)

It's great that they are doing so well in many areas, but it doesn't mean they somehow can't be doing something wrong or something badly in some other areas, or that they shouldn't correct or at least deal with issues that might exist.

 

[blahblah100]

Having worked for Apple Retail for close to 4 years, my opinion is that this lawsuit is completely bogus. Glad it got dismissed. For a retail employee, I was treated FAR better at Apple than in any other retail position. I was respected. I was trusted. Sure, the job wasn't perfect, but this?? Seriously, folks. I left making $17/hr PART TIME with health insurance. Who the hell else in the grand ole USA paid a part time retail employee $17/hr w/ benefits (including health insurance) in 2011???? Mic drop.

Costco. Mic drop.

 

[Sonmi451]

I don't like the policy, but I hate our sue happy overly litigated country worse.

 

[glowdragon]

I know what choice means. I know what personal responsibility means too. In this case employees are responsible for how they get to work. Choice in how they do that is up to them. Again, they know the rules and if they don't like them they are free to CHOOSE another employer.

I don't know what country you live in but there's kind of a huge problem with unemployment in the United States. Very few people are free to choose another employer at any given time.

 

[Swift]

I've read a fair way in this, and don't see anybody supporting the right to sue and not seeing any special problem in the fact that the employees lost. The right of an employer to search employees when the business involves small but very valuable per square inch devices. The Treasury makes sure the dollars on you aren't the Treasury's. All else remaining true, there are lots of precedence for dismissal. Everybody has a right to sue, but usually, it doesn't have to go to trial. But there will come a case that will bring up something about the practice that finds something that the law needs to do differently.

 

[JimmyHook]

Not with that, but with those that take unreasonable amount of time. Surely what you witnessed doesn't necessarily represent all cases all the time, right? So if there are enough that take much longer than reasonable then some people might be urged to want to do something about them, right?

The court said otherwise. So... no matter what people say here... Apple was right. End of story.

 

[FlyGuyDEN]

If someone had necessary medication they had to bring to work I'm sure Apple would have been appalled to have them walk in without it in a bag. This judge erred in his decision.

 

[Swampthing]

You seem like a nice person, to you anyone who dares to bring a bag to work is a loser, you know it's people like you who have bought about the need for unions and standard hours.

Read closer. Show me where I say everyone who brings a bag is a loser:

The class members were basically all losers

You missed the most important part. I'll reprint it here for you again:

The class pursued compensation based on a scenario in which personal effects were taken to work willfully and for personal convenience, judge Alsop writes. Further, no members asserted special needs scenarios when given the opportunity to do so.

Oh, and by the way, I'm 52 years old and have worked tons of retails jobs and now the Federal Government. Been in jobs with unions, been in jobs without unions. So relax. I actually know what I am talking about.

 

[JimmyHook]

If someone had necessary medication they had to bring to work I'm sure Apple would have been appalled to have them walk in without it in a bag. This judge erred in his decision.

None of the class members demonstrate special needs to the court (or unreasonable waits).

 

[_Refurbished_]

Disney does something similar to this at the theme parks. When you walk through a security gate at the end of your shift, they check your bag. There is no waiting or hassle.

You do, however, get compensated by what's called "walk time". You're getting paid the final 20 minutes of your shift as you walk to your car (takes about 15-20 minutes). This is built into the shift. If you're off at 8pm, you clock out at 7:40. So when your bag is getting checked, Disney is still paying you.

If Apple wants to hold their employees for bag checks, that's fine and dandy....but pay them for it.

Lastly, our judicial system is run by a bunch of quacks. Our laws are, in many cases, flawed. To say "Apple is right" because it was dismissed is asinine. Just because a judge finds Apple free of guilt, does not make them innocent of wrongdoing. As someone that has worked for a large corporation for over eight years, it's clear there are many policies in place that are illogical and illegal.

 

[palmfox]

And now let's apply that to actual reality vs a theoretical universe.

I don't know what universe you work in, but I have worked at an Apple Store, the military, and court system. All have check my bags. Inconvenient, you bet. Worth whining about and filing a class action law suit, get real. Again, if you don't like it, don't work there. For a person to whine about it after they have agree to the conditions in the first place, is someone who needs a reality check! It appears you are the one living in a theoretical universe, while the rest of us are dealing in the real world. The one where we abide by our agreements.

 

[Michaelgtrusa]

No one should be shocked by this.

 

[TheDauterive]

No. You can either deal with it, or get another job. Same as everyone else in that industry. You don't need to bring that purse to work. Use your pocket, and if it's too much to handle, get a different job.

Wow. I hereby move that MacRumors inaugerate an "ANGRY LIBERTARIAN" badge in honor of your fussy little rant!

The same argument ("Deal with it, or get another job.") could be made against minimum wage laws ("If you don't like being paid Foxconn wages, leave!"), laws that require payment in legal tender ("If you want dollars instead of "Apple Bucks", find another job!), and even sexual harassment laws ("If you don't want to sleep with your boss, you're free to quit!")

I know angry libertarians think they have the entire freedom thing figured out, but the truth is you've not even joined the conversation. Even the bank teller with a gun to his head is free to choose the bullet, but freedom so narrowly conceived produces misery as often as it does. The morality that follow from libertarianism's myopic focus on one, and only one, human value produces as distorted and grotesque an image of humanity as one can bear to imagine.

The libertarian argument can just as well be made on the other side: "It's none of Apple's business what their employees do when they're off the clock. Forcing an employee to do what you want with their time is tantamount to slavery!" Such arguments (and hyperbole) are, of course, always and only lodged on behalf of employers, which seems to indicate misguided class loyalty more than a principled commitment to freedom.

PS. Forgiveness if I mis-identified you as an angry libertarian, but your arguments track with theirs on multiple points. You could just be an angry old man shaking his cane at teenagers...with their overblown sense of entitlement and...um...purses. "In my day women didn't wear dresses OR carry purses...AND WE LIKED IT THAT WAY!"

 

[gijoeinla]

I know a lot of people get teary-eyed over the idea that the treatment of humans might ever take precedent over the profits of corporations. But this is a case where the corporations are just blatantly wrong. The fact that a court sided with the money is hardly a shocking development.

Omg. This case and the "inspection" of employees purses, backpacks etc equates to "treatment of humans".. Oh ok! Got it.

The working conditions at Apple stores are deplorable and they so exploit their employees. Yea sure.

I can think A HUNDRED MILLION OTHER THINGS in life that exploit the treatment of human beings. This is not one of them.

The human condition of THINKING is getting really really small. Why not worry about that ????

???

 

[RockSpider]

Read closer. Show me where I say everyone who brings a bag is a loser:



You missed the most important part. I'll reprint it here for you again:

The class pursued compensation based on a scenario in which personal effects were taken to work willfully and for personal convenience, judge Alsop writes. Further, no members asserted special needs scenarios when given the opportunity to do so.

Oh, and by the way, I'm 52 years old and have worked tons of retails jobs and now the Federal Government. Been in jobs with unions, been in jobs without unions. So relax. I actually know what I am talking about.

Phew, now that I know you're with the Federal Government, I'm relaxed, wait, you're Amercan, are you going to shoot me, I'm a bit worried about you people and your six guns.

 

[gco212]

I guess I missed the Constitutional Amendment or new piece of legislation that so many posters have read that guarantees the right to bring your bags to work, haha.

I might feel it's bad company policy from Apple, as I wouldn't like to work in a company doing those searches, but it's not something that should be afforded as a right. Apple is allowing you to bring your bag to work, with the understanding that in exchange for that privilege, you'll be searched before you can leave.

 

[RockSpider]

I guess I missed the Constitutional Amendment or new piece of legislation that so many posters have read that guarantees the right to bring your bags to work, haha.

I might feel it's bad company policy from Apple, as I wouldn't like to work in a company doing those searches, but it's not something that should be afforded as a right. Apple is allowing you to bring your bag to work, with the understanding that in exchange for that privilege, you'll be searched before you can leave.

Wow that Apple is one great company it actually gives you the privilege of bringing your bag to work, everyone in the world should work for Apple, wait I've NEVER been searched EVER when bringing a bag to work.
America the land of the free, well not so free.

 

[NY Guitarist]

I find it fascinating how many posts express anger at the employees wanting to have bags checked while on the clock.

They typically mention that it shouldn't take long to go through security. If it's so quick then Apple shouldn't have a problem with doing it on the clock. I know of a huge A/V retailer in NYC that has set up their store in a very smart way where personal bags go into a locker area, then the employee passes through time clock and security points. Items never get out of the store to ever get into a bag.

Apple is being lazy over a very simple thing, and not taking employees quality of life into consideration. And, as trivial as some may think of this issue, it's a real world concern for average working people. Think of the items that people carry all the time. Who DOESN'T have some sort of bag these days?

Would you leave your wallet, phone, maybe meds, a snack, hygiene products in your car? If you take mass transit then what? How much can you carry in your pockets? Does Apple allow you to have items in your pockets while you work?

It's just silly, check bags on the clock.

And as obsessive as Apple is over their image check the damn bags out of sight of the customers.

 

[gco212]

You didn't need to reply, but you did anyway.

Hey, I don't need to eat lunch at work. I don't need breaks. I don't need to have a safe work environment. I don't need to be paid, even. I don't need to do anything but die and pay taxes, really.

It seems to me this argument of yours and the judge's about not "needing" to bring a bag to work is just superfluous. Obviously, the employee FELT THE DAMN NEED TO BRING A BAG TO WORK FOR A FLIPPING REASON (e.g. bring lunch, whatever) and having the judge dismiss their "need" as a "you don't need to eat" kind of reply is flipping patronizing at best and being a total tool of the corporate overlords of this country at worst.

NEED. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.