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Other LCD is a better display technology for smartphones than OLED

Should Apple continue to offer LCD displays on smartphones?

  • No. OLED with PWM is the better option.

    Votes: 123 68.3%

  • OLED has too many problems. Apple should offer LCD and OLED (in the same size phone) or just LCD.

    Votes: 57 31.7%
  • Total voters
    180
The whole LCD versus OLED argument will never find a centralized median, it will vary for everyone. I don’t think the average consumer cares about the differences, compared to someone who might be more ‘tech involved’.

As for those dismissing PWM, that is a issue that’s affected hundreds of forum members, and it shouldn’t be scrutinized because it didn’t happen to you, as it is something that not just Apple related either.
 
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I had more than enough money to buy a XS Max , but chose the iphone 8 plus with an LCD screen .
 
W.MlL said:
A likely reason for PWM is that OLED is highly susceptible to image retention (burn-in). On a TV, image retention can be prevented through various techniques (e.g., pixel shift) coupled with the fact that home-theater TVs generally aren't displaying static images constantly.
Click to expand...

PWM is used to dim the display.
 
cableguy84 said:
I had more than enough money to buy a XS Max , but chose the iphone 8 plus with an LCD screen .
Click to expand...

I was leaning toward buying an iPhone 8 but I don't really like that "fake" home button. It feels like I have to push it super hard compared to the old "real" home buttons. I agree though that the iPhone 8 is a fantastic feature set.
 
W.MlL said:
I was leaning toward buying an iPhone 8 but I don't really like that "fake" home button. It feels like I have to push it super hard compared to the old "real" home buttons.
Click to expand...

I find this odd that you push “Super hard.” You shouldn’t have to use hardly any pressure at all to activate the haptic home button, compared to the mechanical home button, the haptic home button has less travel when pushing and it’s much faster with a response.
 
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Relentless Power said:
I find this odd that you push “Super hard.” You shouldn’t have to use hardly any pressure at all to activate the haptic home button, compared to the mechanical home button, the haptic home button has less travel when pushing and it’s much faster with a response.
Click to expand...

All I can say is that handling it for like 10 minutes in the store, the button often didn't register my presses. I had to press harder than was my instinct (from using an iPhone 6S).
 
Relentless Power said:
I find this odd that you push “Super hard.” You shouldn’t have to use hardly any pressure at all to activate the haptic home button, compared to the mechanical home button, the haptic home button has less travel when pushing and it’s much faster with a response.
Click to expand...
The haptic home button doesn't move (in the same way the screen doesn't move due to 3DT). There hardly is any pressure applied, on my i7 to activate the button.
 
I7guy said:
The haptic home button doesn't move.
Click to expand...

Right, I gathered that. It’s a solid state button to the Taptic Engine, which is why I mentioned very little pressure is needed to activate it versus the ‘Push-style’ home button. Only the thumb travels to push the Haptic button, but the button itself doesn’t move.
[doublepost=1546188513][/doublepost]
W.MlL said:
All I can say is that handling it for like 10 minutes in the store, the button often didn't register my presses. I had to press harder than was my instinct (from using an iPhone 6S).
Click to expand...

Strange. Perhaps something was wrong with the demo model.
 
I have sinus pain and headache 24/7/365, and I’m prone to migraines. No issues with OLED at all. Brightness is what gets me, so I’ve got it toned down a lot on every device/computer/display.
 
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newellj said:
There are three settings for the home button. It's possible it had been set by a customer to the higher pressure setting.
Click to expand...

Sure, but the OP stated it didn’t register his presses, that’s not a likely scenario when the OP was trying for ten minutes as mentioned. I suspect it was user error or something wrong with the demo model.
 
MarkX said:
That’s your opinion, it’s not fact.
Click to expand...

LCD advocates over OLED are in a minority, they are entitled to their opinions, however.
I don't see any display critics or reviewers who currently don't see OLED as the best display
technology, even given it's cons.

Those that suffer from PWM will be much better suited to avoid it altogether though, due to the way
Apple implements PWM.
 
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Arei said:
I have sinus pain and headache 24/7/365, and I’m prone to migraines. No issues with OLED at all. Brightness is what gets me, so I’ve got it toned down a lot on every device/computer/display.
Click to expand...

I am sensitive to light. I often run my displays at low settings that seem too dim to others but feel fine to me. By chance have you experimented at all with turning up your Reduce White Point very high like to 95% and running the brightness at a level of 50%-100%? I found this (in the store) to be quite effective however slow-mo records still registered PWM. I'm curious if this still results in no headaches (eye strain) for you.
[doublepost=1546265816][/doublepost]
Relentless Power said:
Sure, but the OP stated it didn’t register his presses, that’s not a likely scenario when the OP was trying for ten minutes as mentioned. I suspect it was user error or something wrong with the demo model.
Click to expand...

It's certainly possible there was something wrong with the demo model. However, I did experiment with 3 home button press options. I found 3 to be the most agreeable. But I still noticed that when interacting with it, the whole bottom of the phone would tilt from the pressure I was applying. Maybe it's just getting used to it cause I'm coming from a 6S. But the initial experience was off-putting (and I approached it intending to buy it). Then I went over to the XS and liked it a lot better. Only the PWM is keeping me from the XS.
[doublepost=1546265956][/doublepost]
davedvdy said:
Those that suffer from PWM will be much better suited to avoid it altogether though, due to the way
Apple implements PWM.
Click to expand...

Is there a better way to implement PWM than Apple is doing? I wasn't aware that there is a qualitative difference in how this is applied. If something has PWM, isn't it an issue for at least some people? Or how could Apple have done it better?
 
I have yet to experience eye strain or headaches from my X and now Xs (so maybe I'm a lucky one?). But Apple can offer both OLED and LCD iPhone models to customers. I will happily continue buy the OLED variant.
 
W.MlL said:
There has been customer complaints on the iPhone X and XS models that they aggravate headaches and eye strain and PWM (pulse width modulation) has been indicated as a possible contributor to this. LCD models from Apple do not use PWM, Only the OLED models do.

A likely reason for PWM is that OLED is highly susceptible to image retention (burn-in). On a TV, image retention can be prevented through various techniques (e.g., pixel shift) coupled with the fact that home-theater TVs generally aren't displaying static images constantly.

With smartphones static images are displayed constantly. To me it seems that OLED is a poor choice of display technology for smartphone displays. Although OLED certainly gives better quality image and battery life, it is very expensive to manufacture and requires PWM to prevent ruining the screen. I'm a huge OLED fan on home-theater TV but I don't think it makes good sense putting it on a smartphone. A smartphone is something you stare at constantly and something that can get broken from dropping. So dramatically raising the cost for OLED and having to deal with a pulsating light going off in your face seems bad choice to me. What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

For phones I think only the PWM and shadow details make LCD better. For some that’s actually a big deal.
But whilst I have my eyes firmly set on a fancy new 55” Sony OLED TV, the industry is firmly set on Micro LED. Whoxh im not sure if it uses an LCD or OLED panel?
Apple has basically overpriced its OELD panels made by Samsung, I still personally prefer Apples LCD panels.
 
W.MlL said:
I

It's certainly possible there was something wrong with the demo model. However, I did experiment with 3 home button press options. I found 3 to be the most agreeable. But I still noticed that when interacting with it, the whole bottom of the phone would tilt from the pressure I was applying. Maybe it's just getting used to it cause I'm coming from a 6S. But the initial experience was off-putting (and I approached it intending to buy it). Then I went over to the XS and liked it a lot better. Only the PWM is keeping me from the XS.
[doublepost=1546265956][/doublepost]

Is there a better way to implement PWM than Apple is doing? I wasn't aware that there is a qualitative difference in how this is applied. If something has PWM, isn't it an issue for at least some people? Or how could Apple have done it better?
Click to expand...

Your home button experience is interesting. By any chance were you using it on the table or another fixed surface? I find the Taptic home button a dream to use -except- when I've put the phone down on a desk or table. In those cases, I have to press a lot harder and you get almost zero feedback.

PWM - yes, there is. Use higher frequencies. 240Hz is on the low side for OLED displays. If you use a higher frequency, it's less likely to be detected by the eye/brain. Here's something to consider, though. Fluorescent tubes flicker at 2x the Hz of your electrical service, usually 60Hz in the US. Most people can't see, and don't complain headaches from, flickering at that frequency. FWIW, Apple is using a rate that's twice as high as florescent lights.
 
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W.MlL said:
There has been customer complaints on the iPhone X and XS models that they aggravate headaches and eye strain and PWM (pulse width modulation) has been indicated as a possible contributor to this. LCD models from Apple do not use PWM, Only the OLED models do.

A likely reason for PWM is that OLED is highly susceptible to image retention (burn-in). On a TV, image retention can be prevented through various techniques (e.g., pixel shift) coupled with the fact that home-theater TVs generally aren't displaying static images constantly.

With smartphones static images are displayed constantly. To me it seems that OLED is a poor choice of display technology for smartphone displays. Although OLED certainly gives better quality image and battery life, it is very expensive to manufacture and requires PWM to prevent ruining the screen. I'm a huge OLED fan on home-theater TV but I don't think it makes good sense putting it on a smartphone. A smartphone is something you stare at constantly and something that can get broken from dropping. So dramatically raising the cost for OLED and having to deal with a pulsating light going off in your face seems bad choice to me. What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...
All oled smartphones use Pixel shift also. Especially since Samsung figured it out. Smartphones don’t usually use static images either. The weak point in Sammys phones was the home button. Which was fixed using pixel shifting. Apple doesn’t have an always on home button
 
W.MlL said:
I am sensitive to light. I often run my displays at low settings that seem too dim to others but feel fine to me. By chance have you experimented at all with turning up your Reduce White Point very high like to 95% and running the brightness at a level of 50%-100%? I found this (in the store) to be quite effective however slow-mo records still registered PWM. I'm curious if this still results in no headaches (eye strain) for you.
[doublepost=1546265816][/doublepost]

Where do I find Reduce White Point? That’s not a setting I’ve heard of before. I’ll definitely try it out and see what happens.
Click to expand...
 
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