Leaving macOS?

[miretogo]

Hi everyone.

After about 15 years of being very satisfied with macOS, I am now seriously contemplating to leave it behind. Why? It seems to me that macOS is turning into a babysitter for the user instead of a tool which allows the users to do what they want.

Examples:
* Gatekeeper makes it cumbersome to install apps outside of the App Store
* Catalina asks for permission to access folders
* Latest Catalina update prevents users to hide the update notification
* T2 chip in latests Macs makes it difficult to install Linux
* Expected switch to ARM will likely remove the option to install Windows via Boot Camp

I have been using Windows 10 for gaming on my Mac for a while and to my surprise, and despite my dislike of Windows, it seems stable, quite useable and not very annoying. Thus, I am considering exclusively using Windows 10. The main point that still prevents me is that I wouldn't be able to use Apple's "Books" app and OpenEmu on macOS, which I regularly use, anymore.

I am also interested in Linux Mint and can imagine using it as my main OS and Windows 10 for gaming only. However, like the Windows 10 option, I wouldn't be able to use Books and OpenEmu anymore. Moreover, there seems to be no easy way to back up an iOS device on Linux (there is iTunes for Windows but not for Linux).

What are you thoughts?

 

[Ritsuka]

1. Right-click -> Open doesn't seem too cumbersome to me. And it's necessary only for unsigned apps. Most apps outside the App Store are properly signed. Anyway you can always disable gatekeeper.
2. Only the first time, and only in apps that try to access those folders automatically.
3. 4. Oh well…
5. Time will tell, it's better to wait for some solid information.

 

[bogdanw]

* T2 chip in latests Macs makes it difficult to install Linux

Not really https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208330

 

[canesalato]

OpenEmu is really good, there are many emulators for Windows, but none is as polished, in my opinion. That said, as long as I can use the emulator I need, and the performance is good I can survive. But I feel the pain. I love OpenEmu.
Have a look at: http://www.retroarch.com/

As for Apple Books, files are protected by their proprietary DRM and can only be read on Apple devices, that's their way to lock costumers in their ecosystem.
Apple Books deleted some of my book files, bookmarks, or both, multiple times over the years. What I also really HATE is that some books were removed on purpose from the Apple catalog and then deleted from my devices iCloud account with no redownload possible.When I realized what happened, they were gone forever. Vaporized(Apple refused to refund the money I spent in purchasing them). I realized buying books on Apple Books is more like a long-term form of renting...

You can try using Kindle, which has an app for Windows.
If you prefer epub files, I use Starrea, with is a simple and nice ebook reader. It's quite new and lacks some features, but it's often updated and getting better fast. Personally, I am tired of being locked to a specific OS, so i try to buy my books in drm-free formats or, alternatively, get them from vendors whose drm can be easily removed.

 

[miretogo]

Thanks for your answers!

@Ritsuka

Interesting points regarding 1) and 2). But I've seen state several people online that Catalina doesn't allow disabling Gatekeeper anymore. Have you tried it?

@bogdanw

Have you tried installing Linux on a T2 Mac? I've read online that the T2 chip also acts as a controller for the SSD which Linux doesn't support. So even with disabled "Secure Boot", installing Linux still doesn't work apparantly.

@canesalato

Yes, RetroArch, while not nearly as polished as OpenEmu, seems like an acceptable substitute. Amazon Kindle is no alternative for me because I have a collection of about 50 books in Apple Books and in most of them i have highlighted a lot and I re-read many of them regularly. However, I could use Apple Books on iOS only.

 

[canesalato]

Amazon Kindle is no alternative for me because I have a collection of about 50 books in Apple Books and in most of them i have highlighted a lot and I re-read many of them regularly. However, I could use Apple Books on iOS only.

Uhm...I understand, but I think nothing can be done about this problem, unfortunately. As an avid reader, it was (is) frustrating to me as well. I guess at least I have learnt my lesson, the hard way. I will not lock myself up into a single-platform software ecosystem again.

 

[maflynn]

Not really https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT208330

You still cannot install Linux on the internal drive, but must relegate the install to an external drive.

I have been using Windows 10

I left the fold a couple of years ago, and I have to say the change has been liberating, more choices, more options, better pricing. Windows is very stable, offers more choices. Just take Apple's latest move in doubling the price of ram for the 13" MBP - crazy. In the PC world, there's many laptops where you have the freedom to upgrade the ram yourself, and not just the ram, but the storage and battery.

 

[Ritsuka]

@Ritsuka

Interesting points regarding 1) and 2). But I've seen state several people online that Catalina doesn't allow disabling Gatekeeper anymore. Have you tried it?

Yes, I have been running it since last June.

@bogdanw

Have you tried installing Linux on a T2 Mac? I've read online that the T2 chip also acts as a controller for the SSD which Linux doesn't support. So even with disabled "Secure Boot", installing Linux still doesn't work apparantly.

Someone wrote the driver, so the SSD is accessible on Linux too. And Linux works too.

 

[throAU]

What are you thoughts?

These things are security measures.

Sounds like you don't want security.

 

[bogdanw]

@bogdanwHave you tried installing Linux on a T2 Mac?

No I didn’t. Why would anyone in 2020 risk messing the internal Mac SDD with Linux partitions? You can run any distribution in a virtual machine, from a cheap USB drive or use the Windows Subsystem for Linux https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/wsl/install-win10 as you are already running Windows.

 

[miretogo]

@maflynn

Yes, I also read that about the external drives. That as least is some valid option. As to the freedom of Windows, I do fint it attractive. One option for me would be to replace my iMac with a Mac Mini, build a gaming PC and attach both computers to a monitor. I could also attach an USB switch to both computers so that I could assign mouse and keyboard at the push of a button to the computer I want to use. Then I would have the advantages of both operating systems. However, it would be less minimalist than having one iMac that at the same time a Mac, a Windows gaming PC and a monitor.

@throAU

I know that they are security measures. But there's usually a trade-off between security on the one side and freedom on the other. Also, I have used macOS for 15 years and never once had any security breach.

@bogdanw

I understand your point but I still dislike the fact that an expensive computer makes it impossible for users to install on of the three main operating systems.
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@Ritsuka

I find your input interesting but am still not convinced because I read conflicting information from others on the web. So I don't know who is right.

 

[Heat_Fan89]

Hi everyone.

After about 15 years of being very satisfied with macOS, I am now seriously contemplating to leave it behind. Why? It seems to me that macOS is turning into a babysitter for the user instead of a tool which allows the users to do what they want.

I've been using Microsoft products since 1985 and Mac products since 2001. I think the big difference is not what macOS has turned into but that the competition has caught up. For all the hate, mockery and the poking the Piñata, Windows has gotten over the years (some well deserved btw) Microsoft has made Windows 10 a really stable OS and it started with Windows 7. They seem to learn from their mistakes and for the most part they tend to listen to customer feedback. I just wish they'd listen to feedback regarding the way they deliver updates.

I now prefer Windows over macOS but for different reasons. It's more cost effective both software and hardware. For example I purchased a ($929)2018 Mini in 2019 and a ($398)Lenovo ThinkCentre Tiny (Mini equivalent) both with similar specs for the most part. The ThinkCentre Tiny has been beyond rock solid while I have had to spend money getting the Mini to perform the way it should. I have had to upgrade the RAM and I had to re-buy a Gen 1 Magic Trackpad because I was having BT issues with my Magic Trackpad 2 which has been resolved using older Apple hardware. When a company designs both the hardware and software, you expect not to have these kinds of problems.

I also like the way Windows 10 unifies the Windows and XBOX platforms. It's pretty slick being on a PC or Smartphone and having a game download to whichever platform or device you want. I also can't live without Windows "Live Tiles", they are beyond slick. Sure Samsung was the first with this idea in their TouchWiz interface going back to 2012 but Microsoft has refined the idea.

Also Windows 10 doesn't require the gobs of RAM that macOS does. As much hate Windows gets for being erratic, bug filled and unstable, I can certainly say I can find equal faults with macOS.

For me the bottom line is that in both their current state, macOS and Windows 10 offer a good product in this day and age. Neither is perfect but help you get the job done.

 

[bogdanw]

@bogdanw
I understand your point but I still dislike the fact that an expensive computer makes it impossible for users to install on of the three main operating systems.

Take a look here and good luck! https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/linux-kernel-5-4-is-out-any-success-in-installing-linux-natively-on-t2-equipped-mac.2213473/

Thanks to the work done in https://github.com/Dunedan/mbp-2016-linux/issues/71 any distro using kernel 5.4+ should now work just fine.

 

[MarkC426]

* Gatekeeper makes it cumbersome to install apps outside of the App Store
Any apps I install are legit and install without issue.
* Catalina asks for permission to access folders
Can't install Catalina (without messing around) so no problem.
* Latest Catalina update prevents users to hide the update notification
As above.
* T2 chip in latests Macs makes it difficult to install Linux
No T2 chip here.
* Expected switch to ARM will likely remove the option to install Windows via Boot Camp
No Arm chip here.

If you use a Mac as a mac (as I do) then it's great.
If your using Windows/Linux there's no need to have a mac.

 

[KALLT]

Any Apple-exclusive software has to be replaced. Calibre is a fairly popular eBook manager and viewer (DRM-protected eBooks from the Apple Book Store cannot be accessed). An alternative to OpenEMU would be RetroArch. iTunes might run with Wine, but I cannot say whether device syncing is supported.

I do not see how (potential) hardware changes cause you to consider “leaving”. Are you going to replace this hardware right now? Apple has not announced or released any ARM-based Macs. Even if they do, it does not mean that Apple goes all-in and replaces the entire Mac lineup at once. By that time, Bootcamp may also be available for ARM (Windows 10 for ARM exists too). ARM is thus not a concern for any Macs produced now or in the near future. That Linux did not work properly on T2-equipped MacBooks was purely a driver issue. Linux does not support everything; new hardware drivers are not immediately added or working properly, not every Linux distro ships the latest kernel right away.

As for system updates, be aware that Windows 10 is even more intrusive in that respect, at least the Home edition. There is only the option to defer updates for a predefined (by Microsoft) period after which the update installs whether you want it or not. If you want a long-term support OS, you need to switch to an appropriate Linux distro, since you are not going to get this with macOS or Windows 10.