Left the Apple Ecosystem, now having second thoughts.

[arkitect]

I wouldn’t consider myself young, (34) but I prefer to be cashless as much as possible. Don’t have to carry it around and don’t have to go through the hassle of going to a cash point to take money out. I use my card, Apple Pay, buying online wherever possible because its just more convenient. I find cash to be cumbersome in a lot of cases.

Agree.
Cashless is the way for me. (And I'm definitely not young! 😀)

Got caught out over the weekend though. Walked down to the Co-Op to get a few things and the machine rejected all 4 linked cards! FFS!
I had to walk back and get my wallet and then use a physical card with a PIN.

So there's that… 🙁

 

[americafirst]

I wouldn’t consider myself young, (34) but I prefer to be cashless as much as possible. Don’t have to carry it around and don’t have to go through the hassle of going to a cash point to take money out. I use my card, Apple Pay, buying online wherever possible because its just more convenient. I find cash to be cumbersome in a lot of cases.

I am not much older than you and I too prefer to be cashless as much as possible. If someone steals my cash I am out my cash but if they steal my credit cards I can easily call and have them shut off and replaced.

 

[44267547]

I am not much older than you and I too prefer to be cashless as much as possible. If someone steals my cash I am out my cash but if they steal my credit cards I can easily call and have them shut off and replaced.

I see what you’re saying, but in retrospect, Its not as easy as you’re making it sound. Once credit cards are typically stolen, in _most_ cases for my experience in L.E., the consumer doesn’t know right away they are stolen, and the amount of damage somebody can cause with a credit card is astounding in a matter of minutes, obviously resulting in financial issues, investigations and credit concerns. I’m aware there is fraud protection, but that takes time and the damage is already done until it can be proven what happened, which still has the burden on the card holder.

To the point, that’s why like contactless payment having to not carry cards and if cash stolen, that’s one thing, but credit card fraud is on a whole another level that can be very stressful for those involved. Not to mention, having contactless payment eliminates issues like skimming and RFID theft with credit cards, etc.

 

[Applemaniac7]

If you have unlimited data you don’t need to worry about data charges etc.

What’s good about iMessage especially if you have kids is you know that the message was delivered and read. You can also set up where they’re located. It’s also nice to know when someone is responding to your text.

Whatsapp does exactly this as well, so does Facebook messenger..

 

[Future-Proof]

All of this has made me start thinking about selling all my current devices and putting it towards getting an iPhone X/"X2" and a MacBook Pro. However, I'd still have to pay a lot of money to switch over even after selling my devices, and I have some reservations. The MacBook Pro keyboard problems scare me a bit. I'm afraid I'll miss the freedom of Android and Google Assistant. My car also only works with Android Auto, not CarPlay, so I'll really miss that. It also just makes me feel wasteful buying new devices when all my current devices work great.

Any thoughts or experiences you would like to share? I'm dying for some insight here.

Get a used Macbook Air and an older generation iphone.

 

[americafirst]

I see what you’re saying, but in retrospect, Its not as easy as you’re making it sound. Once credit cards are typically stolen, in _most_ cases for my experience in L.E., the consumer doesn’t know right away they are stolen, and the amount of damage somebody can cause with a credit card is astounding in a matter of minutes, obviously resulting in financial issues, investigations and credit concerns. I’m aware there is fraud protection, but that takes time and the damage is already done until it can be proven what happened, which still has the burden on the card holder.

To the point, that’s why like contactless payment having to not carry cards and if cash stolen, that’s one thing, but credit card fraud is on a whole another level that can be very stressful for those involved. Not to mention, having contactless payment eliminates issues like skimming and RFID theft with credit cards, etc.

You're in LE too? You are right about most people not knowing their cards are stolen right away but I was referring to having a wallet stolen. If your wallet is stolen you will most likely know and it will be easier to replace your cards that were stolen than it is to replace cards that are stolen. I wasn't referring to credit card fraud and that is beyond my level of expertise. It seemed like RFID credit cards went away for a while and are just now making a comeback.

 

[macher]

Whatsapp does exactly this as well, so does Facebook messenger..

Yea but iMessage is baked into iOS. Why would I need to download a 3rd party message app when I don’t have too. Those in the UK have to pay for MMS if they use iMessage which is the only thing that makes sense to use WhatsApp.

 

[Roadstar]

Yea but iMessage is baked into iOS. Why would I need to download a 3rd party message app when I don’t have too. Those in the UK have to pay for MMS if they use iMessage which is the only thing that makes sense to use WhatsApp.

When around 70% of your contacts don't have an iPhone downloading WhatsApp is starting to make a lot of sense. Without it you're going to send pictures in garbage quality, suffer from next to non-existent group messaging and on top of it pay for the garbage experience while the widely used better alternative would be riding along your unlimited data.

 

[convergent]

Or maybe more like Apple won’t implement MST because it’s on its way out. The last time I used MST was years ago unless I forget about a single instance of bumping into some odd ancient terminal in the recent years. It’s been NFC and chip for me for years now.

You live in Europe. In the US there are a lot of those "ancient" terminals out there.
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I'm one of the few people who has managed to completely remove themselves from the Apple ecosystem, only to come back. Due to the nature of my work, I get to use a lot of devices – PC, Mac, Android and iOS. I have to use all of them at various points for technical writing and testing. But when it comes to my day-to-day usage, I've finally settled for good with Apple.

And, no, I don't use iMessage as literally nobody else I know does either – we are all on WhatsApp and it works flawlessly across all my Apple devices (there are first and third party apps for both Mac and iPad).

I tried really hard to make a Windows PC and Android device work for me (and my needs are just that so it may be different and perfectly manageable for others). I've had the Pixel 2 XL and Samsung Galaxy S8 as my main devices along with a Surface Pro and desktop PC. All lovely hardware. Unfortunately, the lack of a mobile solution really hurts Microsoft. You can use things like PushBullet for some integration, but it's limited and requires paid subscriptions for full functionality.

For some things, there is nothing comparable. The Apple Watch is killer; you can have something as basic as an iPhone SE in your pocket and get all the benefits that being in the ecosystem brings. I tried using a Huawei Android Wear watch and a Fitbit Versa as replacements – none of them come up to scratch. Many Wear devices are too dressy for fitness and lacking in things like NFC for payments; the Fitbit is superb for fitness but cannot make and receive phone calls or respond to messages and has no virtual assistant functionality.

It's all the little things that add up with Apple that just work. Controlling your music, making mobile payments, scheduling an appointment, taking a call on your watch, iPad or Mac when your phone isn't nearby… The list goes on and on. The flipside is death by a thousand cuts in a disjointed ecosystem. For example, the Samsung Gear S3 is a lovely watch but doesn't run Android Wear, so no Google Pay. That's a problem for me in the UK as both Samsung and Fitbit payment solutions support virtually no major banks.

I wish Apple would get their act together on the Mac side of things as this is now the weakest link. There is far more powerful hardware out there but Apple's ecosystem is the only one that works holistically with no gaps in functionality. For me, the Watch is as important a piece of the puzzle as anything else – if you have no interest in it, you may be able to make a Windows/Android combination work just fine.

Everyone has different use cases. You apparently didn't use the Surface Pro to its full extent, or it wouldn't be so easy to go back. There no equivalent project to either the Surface Pro or Note 8 in Appleland. And not everyone wants their phone messages popping up on their computer screen. If I did, both Samsung's SideSync and Cortana provide sycing, albeit not quite as good as iMessage. But like I said, I don't want that on my computer.

You mentioned the AW is killer. I had one for 2 years and liked it but I'd hardly call it killer. In fact, I was shocked that I love the Gear S3. All the things you mentioned I find to be a better experience on the Gear S3 than the AW, largely because of the navigation and rotating bezel. And in the US, Samsung Pay is taken at way more places because of MST... we still have a lot of older terminals.

So a lot of this depends on personal needs and preferences.

 

[Michael Goff]

Yea but iMessage is baked into iOS. Why would I need to download a 3rd party message app when I don’t have too. Those in the UK have to pay for MMS if they use iMessage which is the only thing that makes sense to use WhatsApp.

If everyone you talk to uses iOS, you're completely right.

 

[sunking101]

If iMessage is so essential for Americans why does anyone buy an Android device over there? In Dec 16 Android's share of the US market was 59% whilst iOS had 39%.

 

[44267547]

You're in LE too? You are right about most people not knowing their cards are stolen right away but I was referring to having a wallet stolen. If your wallet is stolen you will most likely know and it will be easier to replace your cards that were stolen than it is to replace cards that are stolen. I wasn't referring to credit card fraud and that is beyond my level of expertise. It seemed like RFID credit cards went away for a while and are just now making a comeback.

I am in L.E. If somebody’s wallet was stolen, yes, that would be more of an obvious scenario where somebody would be alerted of that right away. Even so, when you have those who panic when their cards are stolen, as I said before; it takes a matter of minutes for somebody do a significant amount of damage in spending with fraud on a credit card. Banks can cancel the cards, but the damage is likely already detrimental and that’s why I was suggesting contactless payment is becoming more primary in eliminating carrying cards, cash, etc. It’s just a safer method in some senses

 

[tbayrgs]

Yea but iMessage is baked into iOS. Why would I need to download a 3rd party message app when I don’t have too. Those in the UK have to pay for MMS if they use iMessage which is the only thing that makes sense to use WhatsApp.

It’s not just that. Just about everywhere outside the US, WhatsApp is ubiquitous, used by most people on all platforms. So while iPhone used see benefits whenever they message other Apple devices, those same features disappear when messaging an Android phone. WhatApp users see most of the same benefits of Apple Messages but across all platforms.

The overwelming majority of my daily messaging is done to other iPhone users so I love the benefits afforded by Apple Messages. That being said, I’d love a solution like WhatsApp (though personally I’d prefer something else as I despise everything Facebook related) to be prevalent here in the States as is would allow me to see those same benefits across all devices I use, Apple or not. Unfortunately, that option in the US is presently SMS/MMS.
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If iMessage is so essential for Americans why does anyone buy an Android device over there? In Dec 16 Android's share of the US market was 59% whilst iOS had 39%.

Because a giant portion of that Android market share are budget handhelds purchased by folks likely not in the market to spend $500+ on some model of iPhone. If you looked specfically at the mid-to-high market, those market share numbers would change dramatically.

This chart showing average sale price of Android vs. iPhones shows the disparity. There is no iPhone option at the low end—having Apple Messages is not their primary concern.

 

[sunking101]

It’s not just that. Just about everywhere outside the US, WhatsApp is ubiquitous, used by most people on all platforms. So while iPhone used see benefits whenever they message other Apple devices, those same features disappear when messaging an Android phone. WhatApp users see most of the same benefits of Apple Messages but across all platforms.

The overwelming majority of my daily messaging is done to other iPhone users so I love the benefits afforded by Apple Messages. That being said, I’d love a solution like WhatsApp (though personally I’d prefer something else as I despise everything Facebook related) to be prevalent here in the States as is would allow me to see those same benefits across all devices I use, Apple or not. Unfortunately, that option in the US is presently SMS/MMS.
[doublepost=1529016834][/doublepost]

Because a giant portion of that Android market share are budget handhelds purchased by folks likely not in the market to spend $500+ on some model of iPhone. If you looked specfically at the mid-to-high market, those market share numbers would change dramatically.

This chart showing average sale price of Android vs. iPhones shows the disparity. There is no iPhone option at the low end—having Apple Messages is not their primary concern.

View attachment 766235

I'm using a Note 8 and it wasn't cheap. You're kind of perpetuating the myth that only those who cannot afford iPhones buy Android. I could have got an iPhone 8 Plus for less money but, bizarrely, I still chose to get an Android and miss out on iMessage.

 

[torana355]

If you looked specfically at the mid-to-high market, those market share numbers would change dramatically.

Well the latest figures suggest otherwise as the S9 is outselling the iPhone X.

 

[tbayrgs]

I'm using a Note 8 and it wasn't cheap. You're kind of perpetuating the myth that only those who cannot afford iPhones buy Android. I could have got an iPhone 8 Plus for less money but, bizarrely, I still chose to get an Android and miss out on iMessage.

Not perpetuating anything—proof is in the chart. Those are simply facts, whether you like them or not.

I never said that the only Android phones sold are budget models but that chart does prove that the overwhelming majority of them are at the lower price point.

 

[SteveJUAE]

One doesn't need a helper app to email the photos from the phone. True, it isn't as elegant as AirDrop but when interacting with non-iOS devices, that's going to be the only way to share photos anyways.

In the general scenario of mixed devices, Apple's proprietary solutions are not a benefit... and can be a detriment because it requires 2 different methods for interacting with others.

Not sure why your even discussing Airdrop as its just a limited app (ie file restrictions) for limited users (IOS or MACos) who may not know how to set up or use cloud sharing properly across multiple platforms.

Even if friends or relatives are not shared simply tag the photos or folder for example and send link to whoever you wish to view, no fluffing around with making sure it's enabled on the receivers device they are free to view how when and with what they like

Forcing other to buy Apple devices so it's supposedly easier to share messages or photos etc is just daft 100's of millions more do it everyday without owning an Apple device with free software and generous cloud storage already bundled with their device 🙄

 

[tbayrgs]

Well the latest figures suggest otherwise as the S9 is outselling the iPhone X.

Have any links to back that up? My initial search repeatedly shows S9 numbers are lagging previous generations across the board, and especially worse in Samsung’s own South Korean home market.

And of course the S9 likely outsells the iPhone during the first month or two of its launch, vs. the 6th and 7th month of the X’s launch. That’s as shocking as stating the iPhone outsells the Galaxy in Oct/Nov.

 

[torana355]

Have any links to back that up? My initial search repeatedly shows S9 numbers are lagging previous generations across the board, and especially worse in Samsung’s own South Korean home market.

And of course the S9 likely outsells the iPhone during the first month or two of its launch, vs. the 6th and 7th month of the X’s launch. That’s as shocking as stating the iPhone outsells the Galaxy in Oct/Nov.

https://indianexpress.com/article/t...martphone-in-april-2018-counterpoint-5211514/

"This is the first time Samsung’s Galaxy S9+ has dethroned the iPhone X as the world’s best-selling
smartphone"

https://www.t3.com/news/this-is-how-the-samsung-galaxy-s9-beat-the-iphone-x

"New sales figures have confirmed that Samsung beat Apple is smartphone sales in April 2018 with the Samsung Galaxy S9 Plus and Samsung Galaxy S9 out-selling the iPhone X, iPhone 8 and iPhone 8 Plus."

 

[SteveJUAE]

If everyone you talk to uses iOS, you're completely right.

Additionally everyone has to have a data plan too, else you will have to try and manually override to sms for those recipients out of wifi range (Eg Parents who buy kids Iphones but no data)

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Many millions have smartphones including Iphones without data plans around the world. They run their phones on minimal budgets ($10 or $20 a year) using free wifi and just a few $'s credit for emergency calls etc

Plans and bundles we see typically in US/UK and some other countries are probably the minority of users and why Imessage has such a little adoption globally. The last data we have seen posted showed Facebook messenger was still bigger than Imessage in the US

Apps like WhatsApp, Line are a great leveller with no ambiguity on charges. US is the 3rd most expensive country in the world to own a smartphone (less by national average income). The average user in US may have a $500 phone and >10GB data package and spends $30/month, globally this is not even close 🙂

I think many would be surprised how equally productive they can be without over spec's on connectivity and performance I surprised myself when I played with the rMB for 8 months for dailies and probably could of done the same on a chromebook 😀

Likewise for many they simple do not need to pay for unlimited sms/mms and huge data plans it's just to easy to be dragged along with the peer pressure, fashion and advertising

Great to have the choice if you need it or enjoy it but for sure some places carriers make it very hard to scale down costs etc

Appols in advance for additional commentary 🙂

 

[PhoneMe1]

Have any links to back that up? My initial search repeatedly shows S9 numbers are lagging previous generations across the board, and especially worse in Samsung’s own South Korean home market.

And of course the S9 likely outsells the iPhone during the first month or two of its launch, vs. the 6th and 7th month of the X’s launch. That’s as shocking as stating the iPhone outsells the Galaxy in Oct/Nov.

Exactly. and the Indian Express lol 🙂

 

[Shanghaichica]

Exactly. and the Indian Express lol 🙂

It’s been reported elsewhere

The iPhone X Was The World's Best Selling Smartphone In Q1 2018 https://www.forbes.com/sites/jeanba...he-worlds-best-selling-smartphone-in-q1-2018/


iPhone X dethroned as world’s top selling smartphone https://www.cultofmac.com/554809/iphone-x-dethroned-as-worlds-top-selling-smartphone/

 

[George Dawes]

I love the Apple ecosystem, apart from the Mac hardware that is.

The ios stuff I have all works brilliantly and the way photo stream and messages just works on multiple iPhones and iPads really is fantastic

Apple TV is amazing too

I’ve seen the alternatives and I’m not impressed.

 

[macher]

I love the Apple ecosystem, apart from the Mac hardware that is.

The ios stuff I have all works brilliantly and the way photo stream and messages just works on multiple iPhones and iPads really is fantastic

Apple TV is amazing too

I’ve seen the alternatives and I’m not impressed.

What if you’re primarily a phone user and maybe an occasional desk top / pad user? There’s lots of people who use their phones as a primary means of tasks. Of course there are times when you need to do tasks on a desk top / lap top that you’re phone can’t do.

I guess if I’m wanting a smart watch then it looks like the Apple system might be the best option.

How is the Android phone / smartwatch option vs the Apple option?

 

[George Dawes]

I’m gravitating towards the iPad for mainstream office work , even spreadsheets which I thought an iPad was incapable of ..

Since my mini packed up due to a fusion drive failure , completely out of the blue , unless a Mac has an ssd I’m not interested at all.

The stability of iOS is so impressive and when things go wrong you don’t have to resort to archaic complex unix commands..