I'm quoting you but this is really for jsh1120:
There's over 425,000 iPhone apps, and over 95,000 iPad specific apps. Do you have any other lies and Android fanboy rhetoric you want to spew?
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Lenovo is bringing the pain with their new tablet
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I'm quoting you but this is really for jsh1120:
There's over 425,000 iPhone apps, and over 95,000 iPad specific apps. Do you have any other lies and Android fanboy rhetoric you want to spew?
OK. This has degenerated into the typical iPhone vs anti-iPhone squabble. Seen it too many times and find it rather silly and adolescent.
The iPad is a great device. That's why I own one. Its flaws stem from conscious design choices (which always have upsides and downsides and that's why they're "choices") and from its heritage as a giant iPod Touch.
Pointing out that other approaches (including Lenovo's) have advantages should not be treated as religious heresy. Those who do should find other outlets for fanatic loyalty.
The iPad is a great device. That's why I own one. Its flaws stem from conscious design choices (which always have upsides and downsides and that's why they're "choices") and from its heritage as a giant iPod Touch.
Pointing out that other approaches (including Lenovo's) have advantages should not be treated as religious heresy. Those who do should find other outlets for fanatic loyalty.
Very true, but you have to offer actual tangible advantages of those other approaches. Which means not using blatantly false facts like "(the number of apps don't matter except for) twentysomething w/o kids" or "Thousands of apps designed for a phone that look like crap on the iPad" to prop up your argument, whatever your agenda is.
To me the Lenovo is neat, but I don't see what's so special about it - and I say that as a user of a UltraNav keyboard - when we already have HTC Flyer and Transformer. And I find it almost laughable that you'd imagine DocumentsToGo is something that can replace Office.
I disagree. It's not a worthwhile topic and there are hundreds of other threads that could be used. It just further pollutes what used to be an excellent Apple oriented website. What the hell is "worthwhile" witch another bickering thread that is totally and completely off topic? Worthwhile to Jr High school kids that like to bicker perhaps. Worthless to adults that come to read about the iPad.
Sorry, but the thread concerned the new Lenovo tablet in comparison with the iPad. That seems a legitimate topic of discussion, at least to me. Especially if it illuminates features of the iPad. And that was the subject of my original post. I certainly agree that it degenerated into us vs them silliness, but that seems to be the result of fanboy reaction, not the nature of the topic itself.
As an aside, it does appear that iPad discussion forums differ in terms of users' tolerance for a diversity of opinion. I've read and participated in a number of these discussions on other forums and found them to be both civil and enlightening. Sad to see that was not the case here.
The situation was a little bit similar in the iPhone forum last summer.
This entire year has been dominated by a series of threads with intentionally inflammatory thread titles such as "Lenovo is brining the pain with their new tablet" and myriad others involving any number of tablets from any number of OEMS.
Inevitably there are a number of hardware features that individuals claim as being superior to iPad and individuals who respond note the shortcomings of Honeycomb and the developer community associated with it.
I think if there happens to be a mega-thread that deals with the Honeycomb OEMs versus iOS on the iPad that would be one thing, but every new thread rehashes the same tired arguments.
The bottom line is that until Google does something demonstrably different with Honeycomb or an OEM does something demonstrably different, such as offer a complete package of applications to compete with what makes iPad a success, there is going to be a certain level of backlash in such threads.
The cycle is such:
1. New thread created with inflammatory title about some new OEM offering something in the tablet space. Supporters of new device state added hardware features such as USB, hdmi, SD slot, tegra whatever, etc. They also lambast the "tired UI" and "closed nature of iOS" and the very tired "Flash" debate.
2. Individuals rightfully retort that such device offers nothing fundamentally new besides a number of hardware features or skins for Android and have not addressed some of the assumed reasons why iPad has been successful.
3. There is a back and forth over hardware features, how app numbers are irrelevant, and flash.
Basically until someone is proven to be really successful at an equivalent level as an Android phone OEM, we are discussing lipstick on a pig and that is a fundamental truth.
Apologies if I contributed to what was considered an "intentionally inflammatory thread." Frankly, I didn't pay much attention to the title; I simply read the OP's initial post which I (still) think was a balanced assessment of the Lenovo's features, especially as they contrasted with the iPad's. My own initial posts were, I thought, in a similar vein.
Perhaps more careful reading and less name calling is recommended. I'll try to follow that advice when reading titles of threads.
I just don't understand why every thread about an iPad "competitor" has to be titled with some rhetorical bravado? Lenovo's not "bringing the pain", they've made yet another iPad "ain't-never-gonna-be" that might be decent in its own right but will never beat the iPad at its own game, and really shouldn't try.
There's always a few on every forum, whether it's Apple, Microsoft, or Google centric.
I've read most of your posts and FWIW I'm in agreement. Lenovo appears to have come out with a very nice product which may attract business users. I work with many users of the iPad and a surprising amount of them opt to use the bluetooth keyboard along with it. The Lenovo dock keyboard appears to look almost the same as my x120e, which I'll say is the best keyboard I've ever used in terms of typing feel. It's definitely much more comfortable than any standard chiclet type and I believe this dock will not disappoint.
I've been a longtime Netbook-class machine user (not a true Netbook as my x120e is just a compact ultra portable) however I've acknowledged the convenience of using tablets, however couldn't make the jump because of most tablet limitations. What this Lenovo product does is satisfies my needs to continue using a traditional ultra compact-portable while gaining the utility and convenience like a tablet.
Full encryption capabilities, cloud-based management (similar to Microsoft's Intune services), users can login, download their unique profiles, cloud can push updates/fixes/support remotely as long as the user is online.
Definitely, not bad at all.
To respond to someone's question as to why this is relevant to an iPad forum:
Its pretty clear that the iPad will have to start incorporating a lot of these features in order to stay in contention.
The digitizer and stylus alone makes the Lenovo tablet about 3x more useful in a classroom lecture setting than non-stylus tablets.
The keyboard folio case makes it way more convenient for typing up reports and emails (without needing to keep track of a spare peripheral).
The built in HDMI port also makes it more presentation-ready than other tablets which require proprietary dongles/connectors.
No, I don't expect that Apple loyalists would desert the iPad in droves, but I do expect that students and salespeople (or their procurement department purchasers) will take a hard look at the capabilities of hardware before they buy half a dozen of them for the office. Lenovo laptops have a better reputation than Macbooks for build quality and sturdiness.... plus they have been making tablet laptops for at least 10 years. This entry into the tablet market is worthy of note.
Besides, iOS 5.0 makes it pretty obvious that Apple is already feeling the need to play catch-up with their competitors. How many of you are 100% confident that Apple won't be the same situation with the iPad 2 years from now as they are with the iPhone right now? (being in second place to a slew of Android tablets)
Google is working hard to commoditize the hardware (and software rudiments). Apple's main weapon to fight them is lock-in. It is no coincidence that they are developing their own proprietary map software, trying to get into speech recognition and are now basically giving mobileme away. Cloud services, integration and data is the next battle frontier.... and google has a rather big head start in that category.
Its pretty clear that the iPad will have to start incorporating a lot of these features in order to stay in contention.
The digitizer and stylus alone makes the Lenovo tablet about 3x more useful in a classroom lecture setting than non-stylus tablets.
The keyboard folio case makes it way more convenient for typing up reports and emails (without needing to keep track of a spare peripheral).
The built in HDMI port also makes it more presentation-ready than other tablets which require proprietary dongles/connectors.
No, I don't expect that Apple loyalists would desert the iPad in droves, but I do expect that students and salespeople (or their procurement department purchasers) will take a hard look at the capabilities of hardware before they buy half a dozen of them for the office. Lenovo laptops have a better reputation than Macbooks for build quality and sturdiness.... plus they have been making tablet laptops for at least 10 years. This entry into the tablet market is worthy of note.
Besides, iOS 5.0 makes it pretty obvious that Apple is already feeling the need to play catch-up with their competitors. How many of you are 100% confident that Apple won't be the same situation with the iPad 2 years from now as they are with the iPhone right now? (being in second place to a slew of Android tablets)
Google is working hard to commoditize the hardware (and software rudiments). Apple's main weapon to fight them is lock-in. It is no coincidence that they are developing their own proprietary map software, trying to get into speech recognition and are now basically giving mobileme away. Cloud services, integration and data is the next battle frontier.... and google has a rather big head start in that category.
It is not apparent at all that Apple is going to incorporate any of the hardware features you mention.
From the very beginning of multitouch devices, Apple has dismissed the stylus and any other input method besides fingers.
Apple has not even added hdmi to its notebooks, so what makes you certain that Apple would add it the iPad. If anything, the endgame for iPad and making presentations will be AirPlay mirroring - not native HDMI input.
There is a fundamental distinction between addressing software shortcomings such as notifications and other sorts of issues and reconsidering hardware features.
I would argue that a stylus and pen input on a modern day tablet is the equivalent to having multitouch displays on modern notebooks and desktops. It makes for nice demo, but not terribly practical.
I find this assertion to be questionable at best.
Try to get your mind around this radical concept: The more "pc-like" you make a Tablet - the LESS likely it is to be succesful.
Fully half of the people who post here don't understand the basic logic behind this. And so they keep on rambling about how the iPad "needs" stylii; and USB ports; and a hierarchical file system; and (endlessly) Flash.
The fact that random people on an internet forum make this fundamental mistake is understandable. The fact that some of the biggest tech manufacturers in the world (HP, RIM, Samsung, Lenovo, etc. etc.) make the same error is somewhat less forgivable.
Why do you think that is the case? If someone sells 1 million homes with blue doors, does that mean that everyone only wants homes with blue doors? That's pretty terrible logic. Yes, Apple has sold X ipads, but I don't see any evidence that the majority of people only bought the ipad because it was not like a PC. Let's not ignore the fact that there was no competition, that Apple products in general have a strong following, and that the iphone was already a huge success. Using your same logic, the vast majority of the computing world is windows-based, so does that mean everyone prefers a more complicated operating system to a more stable one?
Sorry, but I find your assertion to be questionable at best. I'd certainly agree that for a particular type of user a "pc-like" tablet (or a PC for that matter) is, at best, unnecessary and, at worst, an overly complex device whose maintenance can range from an annoyance to a nightmare. The current iPad is (close to) ideal for that large consumer segment.
That doesn't mean, however, that "tablet-like" functionality isn't useful for those whose needs exceed those of the former group. Nor does it mean that the millions of people who are used to features such as "hierarchical file systems" and external storage (and use them every day on their other systems) should have to abandon those features to use a tablet.
For example, though I use cloud storage for several systems, I also find it immensely convenient to carry a usb flash drive in my work. It enables me to access information easily on almost any computer without worry that an internet connection might not be available when I need it or a client's computer is not configured to access the information via other means. It's simple. It works. Period. That's not to say there is no place for "cloud-based" technology; it's only to note that such technology is as much overkill for some tasks as a PC is for many of the consumers who purchase iPads.
Finally, I find your objection to "stylii" to be especially questionable. One of the greatest advantages of tablets over laptops is the potential to capture handwriting and sketches. I've used at least a half dozen note taking apps for the iPad. Though a couple of them are very clever, the "finger painting" philosophy of the iPad undermines their utility to a significant degree. None is nearly as simple to use or as flexible as a pen and paper. I have no doubt that with enough practice one can develop the skills required to use these apps but frankly what I need is something that comes as close as possible to utilizing the skills I already have....simple handwriting that reflects the pressure I put on paper and the capacity to vary the size of text without going through a series of menu items or buttons.
The iPad is a wonderful tool. It's not the only tool. And when other tools are more appropriate denial ain't just a river in Egypt.
Lenova is bringing the pain?????? How is that a legitimate comparison. It's a title BEGGING for the kind of silly snipping you see with each one of these threads. Yes, it's a reaction of the off-topic post itself.
I agree that the title was (I suppose) provocative to those who feel that any criticism of Apple products is out of place on an Apple forum. The OP's actual post, however, was a reasonable description of features in a competitor tablet.
For those who don't read past headlines I can see it would be a problem.
Actually, I did. I have a PC and a mini-notebook. But physically, the iPad worked best for my specific needs. And I don't see how anyone can think it is "clear" that Apple will have to add features based on the Lenovo. IF the thing sells well, then it might be a fair statement. Just because it appeals to a few people here (which is fine), does not indicate how well it'll do in the marketplace. It may do extremely well, and it may not. My guess is that it won't come close to threatening the iPad or any other true tablet for that matter, but we'll see.
If anyone has anything to fear from the Lenovo, it might be notebook computers. Notebook owners might like tablet-like features. But not sure that tablet owners will really want notebook features. The fact that the iPad, despite some delusionals here, has already proven to be a sales leader by a wide margin, suggests that it's biggest selling point is likely how much different it is than a desktop or notebook, since most who bought one probably had one, the other, or both, already.
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I had the use a lenovo laptop this past year for school (my high school gives laptops out to the seniors and for special acc classes). Soph and Junior year I used a small hp laptop which I thought was crap but it did the job. My senior year, however, I had to use lenovo and I will never, ever touch one again. I've never had so many problems with a damn computer and the look of it was horrendous (it was like the 90's all over again AND THEY WERE NEW LAPTOPS). I wanted my ****** old HP laptop back 
Point being = Lenovo craptastic products
Point being = Lenovo craptastic products
Ultimate Irony
You know what my definition of "bringing the pain" is:
Apple Surpasses Lenovo revenue in China
And somehow, I don't think too many US businessmen are going to set up fake Lenovo stores to sell blackmarket PCs and tablets in Des Moines or Shaker Heights.
You know what my definition of "bringing the pain" is:
Apple Surpasses Lenovo revenue in China
And somehow, I don't think too many US businessmen are going to set up fake Lenovo stores to sell blackmarket PCs and tablets in Des Moines or Shaker Heights.
This thread has been cleaned up and many posts have been deleted. Discussion of non-Apple products is allowed and the best place for tablet discussion is the iPad forum. If you have nothing constructive to add, then do not post at all.
Oh no, SPECS!
Heh, it's always this way. When a new era begins, the people skilled in the previous era's tech constantly try to make the new era tech work like the old era. When the PC first came along, 3270 software was a big draw among the mainframe types. Woo hoo! You could turn your PC into a mainframe terminal!
We are now in the early stages of the Post PC era. Predictably we see people yearning for a more PC-like tablet. That's what they are used to. Microsoft pushed styluses on tablets for a decade with miniscule results. But hey, let's try a stylus once again and maybe this time the public will buy it.
Look, if your needs require a stylus, get one. Get it for the iPad or the Lenovo, or whatever. You can get one for any tablet in the world. Same thing with a keyboard, either built into the case or wireless or whatever.
Lenovo might build a very good device, but the more PC they make it, the more they will limit their market in the Post-PC world. The new era is going to belong to the folks who embrace touch. The 3270 type folks will cling to their keyboards and styluses and HDMI ports. Let 'em. The Post-PC world will be far bigger than that.
Heh, it's always this way. When a new era begins, the people skilled in the previous era's tech constantly try to make the new era tech work like the old era. When the PC first came along, 3270 software was a big draw among the mainframe types. Woo hoo! You could turn your PC into a mainframe terminal!
We are now in the early stages of the Post PC era. Predictably we see people yearning for a more PC-like tablet. That's what they are used to. Microsoft pushed styluses on tablets for a decade with miniscule results. But hey, let's try a stylus once again and maybe this time the public will buy it.
Look, if your needs require a stylus, get one. Get it for the iPad or the Lenovo, or whatever. You can get one for any tablet in the world. Same thing with a keyboard, either built into the case or wireless or whatever.
Lenovo might build a very good device, but the more PC they make it, the more they will limit their market in the Post-PC world. The new era is going to belong to the folks who embrace touch. The 3270 type folks will cling to their keyboards and styluses and HDMI ports. Let 'em. The Post-PC world will be far bigger than that.
Thank you for clearing this up. As I said before, I am not 100% sold on Lenovo and this tablet as of yet, but I am glad they are trying. It's only a matter of time before some other tablet maker comes out with a compelling design and the software to back it up. The galaxy comes close, but doesn't do enough to differentiate itself from the pack, I think.
The honest truth is that the Lenovo looks great, it has a lot of features that are superior to the iPad, and it will fail anyway.
Well, I wouldn't bury the PC just yet. About 360,000,000 PC's will ship in 2011. That compares to about 40,000,000 iPads.
It's true that tablet sales are cutting into PC sales growth but that meas a reduction of the increase of from 14% to 11% or 17% to 14% depending on the source. In short, PC sales continue to grow at a healthy rate.
Certainly, touch interfaces will proliferate. But a touch interface does not disqualify a device as a personal computer.
As Mark Twain might say, reports of the death of the PC are somewhat premature.