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You're not allowed to talk about profits unless you're an investor.

Your parents or grandparents (et.al.) retirement funds (if diversified or indexed) possibly makes them an investor, and if you eventually outlive them and there's anything left in their estate, you may benefit as well, just as if you were an investor.
 
Your parents or grandparents (et.al.) retirement funds (if diversified or indexed) possibly makes them an investor, and if you eventually outlive them and there's anything left in their estate, you may benefit as well, just as if you were an investor.

Doesn't matter. You simply cannot have any vested interest or joy in apple making even a red strawpenny unless you invest.
 
Or that the company is adding value (innovation? quality? taste? accessibility? fashion? brand trust?) above and beyond the price of the components and the labor to assemble it, and that lots of customers willingly choose to pay more for Apple's product over an assembled wad of similarly spec'd generic parts from somebody else.

Agree, although PC makers aren't using generic parts they are using industry standard parts, like Apple. But the issue is there are a gazillion versions/brands of these parts in use. Apple uses a small subset so their issues with drivers, manufacture, problems etc are low

I agree 100% on adding value (innovation? quality? taste? accessibility? fashion. If you buy a PC, you buy a PC. If you buy an Apple PC, you are also getting the points you mentioned, and great integration if you also use iPhone/iPad/Apple TV. This is an ecosystem that the more devices and apps within that, that you use , the tighter it all is. You can integrate in Windows but most of it you need to cobble together yourself. The MBP you buy brings with it a whole lot more. Its one part of a bigger system, an ecosystem.

As for low wages, note the long lines of people outside of Foxconn trying to be hired for those "low" wage jobs rather than whatever else they would otherwise do (or get from the state). (...and with a suicide rate lower than in their home towns.) I also note that Apple is successfully hiring in Cupertino, in spite of the ridiculously sky high housing prices around that neighborhood. Low wages???


All computers are made in China more or less, any argument on low wages is not an argument about Apple, its an argument about computer manufacturers as a whole, so the argument in fact doesn't exist.


Yes I'd like an extra USB port on my new rMBP, and a HDD activity light, and perhaps other stuff, but I didn't buy the rMBP as I wanted an rMBP, I wanted access to OSX and the ecosystem and the integration that goes with it.
. I also have a choice. To buy or not to buy, no one is forcing me. I have tick boxes, some were now not ticked, but most are and the key ones are
 
Doesn't matter. You simply cannot have any vested interest or joy in apple making even a red strawpenny unless you invest.

If a representative government had zero vested interested in the existence of certain types of for-profit corporations, they would not be allowed to exist. Mao tried getting rid of all of them (and many of their owners), and look how well the masses in China were doing in the 60's and 70's compared to now. There are still parts of the world where it is very difficult to form a (legal) for-profit business corporation.
 
If a representative government had zero vested interested in the existence of certain types of for-profit corporations, they would not be allowed to exist. Mao tried getting rid of all of them (and many of their owners), and look how well the masses in China were doing in the 60's and 70's compared to now. There are still parts of the world where it is very difficult to form a (legal) for-profit business corporation.

hey man, tbh i'm being sarcastic. I know how foolish I sound, it was just an example to show how foolish the people who ACTUALLY say those things look.

Theres too many here who think because a consumer likes that a company is successful, that that consumer is a brainwashed fool. The truth of the matter is good business is good for everyone, including the consumer.
 
The truth of the matter is good business is good for everyone, including the consumer.

Agreed. It's not a zero-sum game (except perhaps for some financial-investment-speculation parasites). Some clusters of profitable business bring up the GDP and standard of living for the average family as well. Apple invests some of their mountains of cash in R&D and some really smart engineers, scientists and designers to innovate and create or enhance stuff that otherwise would not exist (or have taken a lot longer to be made by someone else). If Apple hadn't innovated the past decade (for everyone to copy), we might have been using stuff like netbooks and PalmPilot or Windows CE mobile devices for a few more years than we actually did.
 
Where's my 17 inch MacBook?

I would venture a guess that killing the 17 inch MacBook could have taken away some sales. I have a 2011 17 inch MacBook. After 7 years of 17 inch MacBooks I am thinking of moving to a Windoze PC just to get the screen size back.
 
I suspect this jump in windows machines has come as those holding onto they windows 7 machines for dear life have finally had to upgrade and windows 8 is their only poison now.

You mean Windows XP, right? Win7 machines should be good for another 5-6 years still.
 
Microsoft this week announced Windows 7 to be EOL in 6 months.

No they didn't.

Microsoft announced the end of MAINSTREAM support in about 6 months. That means you'll only be getting security patches for FIVE YEARS afterward. That is to say, in case you were wondering, they're going to keep doing security patches on Windows 7 until 2020.
 
Really? Are we talking about the laptops that are the heir to the IBM Thinkpad?!?! Because it would be sad if those aren't high quality anymore.

I've got an HP Laptop at work and it is pretty darn crappy. But it was fairly cheap. When I buy another one, I will insist on something better. Lenovo thinkpad would be one that would be on my list.

Honestly from the thread the opinions seem to differ, I've been working with T430's and T420's for laptops, and M80 up until the M93P's for desktops.

But they work terribly, we constantly have people having their laptops crash randomly having to re-image the entire thing all over again. It's costing us loads of work and it annoys the hell out of me and my colleague. You're best of going with Dell, they generally have been doing good overall HP being a close second.

My workplace uses about 5000 Lenovos. I don't see any issues with them they just work.

What models? Also are you using docking stations with them?
 
Honestly from the thread the opinions seem to differ, I've been working with T430's and T420's for laptops, and M80 up until the M93P's for desktops.

But they work terribly, we constantly have people having their laptops crash randomly having to re-image the entire thing all over again. It's costing us loads of work and it annoys the hell out of me and my colleague. You're best of going with Dell, they generally have been doing good overall HP being a close second.



What models? Also are you using docking stations with them?

T410 and 420, yes we use docking stations at work. We always used desktops till we got hit by earthquakes from Sept 2010 onwards so we now use laptops, with an extra screen, and we can work from home if need be
 
Honestly from the thread the opinions seem to differ, I've been working with T430's and T420's for laptops, and M80 up until the M93P's for desktops.

But they work terribly, we constantly have people having their laptops crash randomly having to re-image the entire thing all over again. It's costing us loads of work and it annoys the hell out of me and my colleague. You're best of going with Dell, they generally have been doing good overall HP being a close second.



What models? Also are you using docking stations with them?

That sounds awful with the Lenovos. I got my HP at work about a year ago. So I won't get a new one until it fails or at least several more years go by. What I have is light and sleek and that is nice. But I get 3.5 hours of battery life and the screen flickers just a bit if it is showing something very grey. But that doesn't matter as it is just if the entire screen is grey. So I will get by. But for someone like myself who has had Macs at home for years, it is disappointing to see bad hardware. Things like the power cord which often doesn't connect unless really solidly plugged in just shows a lack of attention to detail. Compared to the Mac laptops which have had magnetic attached power cords for probably 8 years or so now.
 
Wrong.

Those PC's are useless, and nothing you say is true. The only advantage of PC "modularity" is for manufacturers to ship more models, which is not a problem for Apple, specially in this day and age.

"Upgrading" a PC is one of those things that got a taboo with enough push from PC "enthusiasts", salesmen, hardware manufacturers, etc...

In real therms, upgrading a single part on a system, is just stupid and economically unworthy.

If you want more performance, you can't get it just by upgrading a CPU, or RAM, or whatever. You can only get it by upgrade the WHOLE machine.

There's no performance gain in a system that runs ok with 8GB to move to 16GB or 32GB, if that memory is STILL slower, if the CPU can't access the RAM as fast.

When CPU's change appreciably, the chipsets and sockets also change, so, you won't get a radically better CPU, you get another range from the same CPU, you need to buy a radically better CPU to appreciate the difference, there's no way you'll tell the difference from a couple of MHz, yes, there are dual core, quad-core, different clock's, but that's just a small difference from generation to generation, and the best thing to do is to buy the correct CPU for your needs.



Seymour Cray

Okay, let me ask you to com[are two computers.

Both have the same i5, both have 8gb of RAM, both have just about everything the same. Except one has an Nvidia 650m and the other has a 750m. Would you really be arguing that they're going to be just as good? How about if one had 8gb of RAM while the other had 16? How about if one had an i7 instead of an i5? The idea that you only get performance increases if you upgrade everything is to say that there's some mystic thing where the individual pieces only work as a set.

A 750m is better than a 650m, so anything that relies on the GPU would be faster with the newer card. Anything that is RAM intensive would be helped with more RAM. It's really simple, I don't know why you'd argue otherwise.
 
Dont you guys think the tablet and new tablet/pc markets are also taking away from the laptop sales in general? Dell and HP went on the verge of bankruptcy when laptops became popular and shrunk in size and now the same thing is going to happen to the laptops with tablets coming along.
 
Okay, let me ask you to com[are two computers.

Both have the same i5, both have 8gb of RAM, both have just about everything the same. Except one has an Nvidia 650m and the other has a 750m. Would you really be arguing that they're going to be just as good? How about if one had 8gb of RAM while the other had 16? How about if one had an i7 instead of an i5? The idea that you only get performance increases if you upgrade everything is to say that there's some mystic thing where the individual pieces only work as a set.

A 750m is better than a 650m, so anything that relies on the GPU would be faster with the newer card. Anything that is RAM intensive would be helped with more RAM. It's really simple, I don't know why you'd argue otherwise.


OH god, graphics cards again?

Look, GPU's are themselves almost computer is a board.

If you want to play games, or you do a lot of GPGPU processing, fine, upgrade might be worth it, but for most of people, it wont.



Now, for RAM, it doesn't matter if you have 8GB or 16GB, it won't make the computer faster, unless your program really needs more than 8GB of RAM, which is very rarely.

Now, faster memory, that makes a difference.
 
OH god, graphics cards again?

Look, GPU's are themselves almost computer is a board.

If you want to play games, or you do a lot of GPGPU processing, fine, upgrade might be worth it, but for most of people, it wont.



Now, for RAM, it doesn't matter if you have 8GB or 16GB, it won't make the computer faster, unless your program really needs more than 8GB of RAM, which is very rarely.

Now, faster memory, that makes a difference.

Wait ... what?
 
Okay, let me ask you to com[are two computers.

Both have the same i5, both have 8gb of RAM, both have just about everything the same. Except one has an Nvidia 650m and the other has a 750m. Would you really be arguing that they're going to be just as good? How about if one had 8gb of RAM while the other had 16? How about if one had an i7 instead of an i5? The idea that you only get performance increases if you upgrade everything is to say that there's some mystic thing where the individual pieces only work as a set.

A 750m is better than a 650m, so anything that relies on the GPU would be faster with the newer card. Anything that is RAM intensive would be helped with more RAM. It's really simple, I don't know why you'd argue otherwise.

Another way is this

You decree that you need this motherboard, this CPU, this GPU and this RAM

You can buy those components and upgrade the PC, or you can buy a new machine with those components, which is rebuying the case, PS, HDD's, DVD drive, etc.

Plus, despite the raft of new machines you can see at any store, you are probably not likely to see one model with the specs you want. They cater for small, medium, large prices.
 
Windows XP is no longer supported by Microsoft, therefore necessitating system purchases with Windows 7. The long span of life for XP has caused quite an aged fleet of hardware. This trend is not alarming for Apple.

The trend will calm once Windows XP machines are phased out of service.

Lenovo is a decent PC manufacturer. As the adage goes, a one eye man is king of the the blind.
 
Windows XP is no longer supported by Microsoft, therefore necessitating system purchases with Windows 7.

Windows 7? What year are you living in? They sell Windows 8.1 now, except for business users (which apparently refuse to use 8 under any circumstances). Yeah, a few places still sell 7, but you're just hastening your own obsolescence given M$ is dead set of wiping out 7, despite its universal praise and despite the hatred of 8.

The long span of life for XP has caused quite an aged fleet of hardware. This trend is not alarming for Apple.

That doesn't mean all the hardware is old. Some put XP on newer hardware. It was generally faster for gaming, for example.
 
Windows XP is no longer supported by Microsoft, therefore necessitating system purchases with Windows 7. The long span of life for XP has caused quite an aged fleet of hardware. This trend is not alarming for Apple.

The trend will calm once Windows XP machines are phased out of service.

Lenovo is a decent PC manufacturer. As the adage goes, a one eye man is king of the the blind.

The age of XP has nothing to do with the age of the hardware. Corporates have a hard set strategy, they update the hardware on a deal with their supplier, perhaps 2 years, perhaps 3 years. The contents are imaged.

There wont be any corporates with XP now, they are already phased out. Corporates wont accept lack of support for security reasons.
 
OH god, graphics cards again?


If you want to play games, or you do a lot of GPGPU processing, fine, upgrade might be worth it, but for most of people, it wont.

??? If a user is not a gamer and doesn't do tasks that require GPU, they wont consider or do an upgrade. Your comment borders on ridiculous.

Its like saying I have a 500GB hard drive, 100GB is used, so its not worth upgrading to a larger hard drive, obviously it isn't.

Your point which you seem to be backtracking is its not worth upgrading CPU, GPU, its best to upgrade the whole machine

.

----------

Dont you guys think the tablet and new tablet/pc markets are also taking away from the laptop sales in general? Dell and HP went on the verge of bankruptcy when laptops became popular and shrunk in size and now the same thing is going to happen to the laptops with tablets coming along.

Yes, and no, a politician answer?

Tablets dont replace laptops as tablets are too small, less powerful, and are restricted either in features, such as iOS, or convenience. I read a while back that only 8% of users now only use a tablet. Cannot recall what site that was on, sounds right to me.

But, as most users own a laptop and a tablet, thats more money as the tablet is a new extra device, that is bound to reduce laptop sales as not everybody has unlimited funds. And as the tablet does some of the tasks, many may consider stretching the life of the laptop.

So, when sales are decreasing, or slowing, its not because the tablets are taking over, but they are impacting on the funds available for a laptop, and the laptop is generally still as popular, even though sales might show otherwise.
 
The age of XP has nothing to do with the age of the hardware. Corporates have a hard set strategy, they update the hardware on a deal with their supplier, perhaps 2 years, perhaps 3 years. The contents are imaged.

There wont be any corporates with XP now, they are already phased out. Corporates wont accept lack of support for security reasons.

My workplace is still using four pr five year old Dells with XP Pro installed on all of them. They don't seem too worried that XP support no longer exists.
 
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