Leopard 64bit - everyday advantage?

l33r0y

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Aug 7, 2007
288
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We all know Leopard will run 64bit specific applications (science/tech/computational) on compatible hardware (core 2 duo and xeon), but will there be core programs within the operating system toolset that are able to take advantage everyday?

e.g. perhaps Core image/audio/video/animation would be written in both a 32 and 64bit friendly version?

Perhaps iLife 08s applications would run better on Leopard if there is some extra 64bit code waiting...
 

Fearless Leader

macrumors 68020
Mar 21, 2006
2,360
0
Hoosiertown
When working on data, 64-bit CPUs can work on twice as much data in the same clock cycle (as opposed to 32-bit CPUs).
... whoa! incorrect in the most fundamental way. 64bits (2^64) does not equal 32bits (2^32) times 2.

2^64 (64bits) addressing is 2^32 (4294967296) times larger than 2^32 (32bits). And it doesn't work on twice as much data.
 

clevin

macrumors G3
Aug 6, 2006
9,097
1
we are talking about day to day apps like iTunes, ichat, adium, browsers, ical, QS, etc...

its like hitting a fly with a missile, can it kill it? sure, would it make a difference by using a rock? no.
 

Fearless Leader

macrumors 68020
Mar 21, 2006
2,360
0
Hoosiertown
You are confusing addressing with bus width. 64-bit (besides memory addressing) brings 64-bit wide registers to work on 64-bits of data at once.
I'm still confused on how every 64bit processor with its set up achieves exactly 2 times the performance as its 32bit counterpart. Can you give me a source?

edit: i see what you are talking about now.

but it does take bigger bites but it takes longer to chew each bite. because we still have the same amount of processing power.
 

clevin

macrumors G3
Aug 6, 2006
9,097
1
I use iLife apps almost everyday and these should benefit from 64-bit wide registers.
i highly doubt it, but I have the patience for the test once leopard lands.

oh, sorry, I made a mistake, if you mean garageband, iMovie, iDVD, maybe you are right. But I highly doubt those are most peole's day-2-day apps.
 

l33r0y

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Aug 7, 2007
288
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Editing uncompressed digital video in iMovie would surely benefit from 64bit code when dealing with that amount of data?
 

flopticalcube

macrumors G4
I'm still confused on how every 64bit processor with its set up achieves exactly 2 times the performance as its 32bit counterpart. Can you give me a source?

edit: i see what you are talking about now.

but it does take bigger bites but it takes longer to chew each bite. because we still have the same amount of processing power.
No, you have double the processing power. On a 64-bit CPU all the internal data paths are double in width. If it takes 1 clock cycle to add two 32-bit registers (4 bytes) together on a 32-bit CPU, it will take 1 clock cycle to add two 64-bit registers (8 bytes) together on a 64-bit CPU. Double the amount of data processed. This won't apply to all apps but those that process large amounts of integer data, like iMovie/iDVD/GarageBand/database engines/speadsheets will see a huge improvement (but not double as overhead gets in the way).
 

clevin

macrumors G3
Aug 6, 2006
9,097
1
This won't apply to all apps but those that process large amounts of integer data, like iMovie/iDVD/GarageBand/database engines/speadsheets will see a huge improvement (but not double as overhead gets in the way).
i think we listed enough information for OP to decide if his "day-2-day apps" will see difference with 64bit.

PS. I don't understand how spreadsheet can be on the list?

PS2. apps need to be written for 64bit to take full advantages, and Im not sure how many of the apps will have a 64 bit version.
 

flopticalcube

macrumors G4
i think we listed enough information for OP to decide if his "day-2-day apps" will see difference with 64bit.

PS. I don't understand how spreadsheet can be on the list?

PS2. apps need to be written for 64bit to take full advantages, and Im not sure how many of the apps will have a 64 bit version.
iLife was mention in the OP.

Speadsheets: Large integer arithmetic, given that won't be many.

Yes, applications will have to be rewritten or at the very least recompiled. iLife, as Apple's flagship suite, will hopefully be one of the first.
 

knelto

macrumors regular
Jul 30, 2007
175
0
PS2. apps need to be written for 64bit to take full advantages, and Im not sure how many of the apps will have a 64 bit version.
Well, who makes the iLife/iWork suites? Apple
Who's making Leopard? Apple

I would expect Apple to have updates or something that would make their apps 64 bit. It would be pretty dumb not to. But that's just me.
 

clevin

macrumors G3
Aug 6, 2006
9,097
1
Im sure apple will make their own stuff 64-bit compatible.

I have low expectation for apple's coding strength, will have to wait and see the result.

I still don't think spreadsheet will perform differently with 64bit, its neither CPU intense, nor memory hog. the difference, even if any, will hardly be noticed.
 

flopticalcube

macrumors G4
Im sure apple will make their own stuff 64-bit compatible.

I have low expectation for apple's coding strength, will have to wait and see the result.

I still don't think spreadsheet will perform differently with 64bit, its neither CPU intense, nor memory hog. the difference, even if any, will hardly be noticed.
Depends on your spreadsheet. I have had Excel sheets in the past that could take ten or fifteen minutes to calc even on decent machines. In the finance world, 32-bit integers are too restrictive (only goes to $4billion ;) ).
 

clevin

macrumors G3
Aug 6, 2006
9,097
1
Depends on your spreadsheet. I have had Excel sheets in the past that could take ten or fifteen minutes to calc even on decent machines. In the finance world, 32-bit integers are too restrictive (only goes to $4billion ;) ).
ok, guess your spreadsheet is at different level as mine...

another question, do you expect M$ deliver a 64bit excel for mac?