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Leopard - Clean Install or Upgrade?

AVR2 said:
Does Migration Assistant still work if you want to pull your existing files over from an external backup HD, or does it only work if you're actually transferring directly between two Macs?
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I am wondering this too. My plan is to backup with Disk Utility my Powerbook as I always have to an external drive. Then wipe my PB clean, install Leopard, then use Migration Assistant to copy stuff back. Now, I do not want everything transferred back to my clean install.

How specific can you get with telling Migration Assistant what you want transferred? I would like to transfer email, Safari bookmarks, address book, iCal, keychain, the Movies, Music, and Documents folders; and that's it. I'm going to re-install all purchased apps myself.
 
CavemanUK said:
technically isnt an "archive and install" the same thing as an upgrade?
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Not if you've made any changes or additions to the system files (kernel extensions, etc). Upgrade takes your current system files and just makes the necessary changes; Archive and Install completely moves all the old system files, and then does a fresh installation.
 
Upgrade. Jaguar to Panther was quick and easy, as was Panther to Tiger. I don't expect this will be different. Clean install is basically a Windows mentality.
 
Loge said:
Upgrade. Jaguar to Panther was quick and easy, as was Panther to Tiger. I don't expect this will be different. Clean install is basically a Windows mentality.
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Not necessarily, just the motivation is different.

On the mac I'll do a fresh install because over time I've put on thism that and the other, which means the hard drive is messy and a nice wipe and re-install will be so much quicker than cleaning up.

On windows the reason for a clean and fresh instal can be the above but is more often due to an unstable system for one reason or another.
 
IJ Reilly said:
What are the subtle differences, then?
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Suppose I've got a bunch of scripts that I've written and put in /usr/libexec. An Upgrade will leave them right where they were since it is just making the necessary changes and leaving everything else alone. Archive and Install would stick them in /Previous Systems/<something>/usr/libexec. Its possible that these scripts are incompatible with some or another part of Leopard, in which case simply doing an Upgrade install wouldn't work for me.

A better example is something like kernel extensions (the OSX Cisco VPN kext, for one). Archive and Install will move them out of the way before it install the new system - Upgrade will leave the right there. Subtle difference, but in earlier stages the latter method would result in a kernel panic on startup due to incompatibilities between the extension and the new system.

Archive and Install also gives you the option to either dump the old user files in Previous Systems along with everything else or preserve it in the new system.

There are numerous differences that, while small, make Upgrade a lot different from Archive and Install. Both have their purposes and for most people there is no practical difference between an Upgrade and an Archive and Install (as long as they choose to Preserve Users and Network Settings). But that doesn't mean they're the same thing.
 
crees! said:
I am wondering this too. My plan is to backup with Disk Utility my Powerbook as I always have to an external drive. Then wipe my PB clean, install Leopard, then use Migration Assistant to copy stuff back. Now, I do not want everything transferred back to my clean install.

How specific can you get with telling Migration Assistant what you want transferred? I would like to transfer email, Safari bookmarks, address book, iCal, keychain, the Movies, Music, and Documents folders; and that's it. I'm going to re-install all purchased apps myself.
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i hope i can assist in some help here. migration assistant will migrate users, applications, network and machine settings, files, volumes. so migration assistant is pretty much for you here as it will import all your stuff you want to backup. users and files migration will import movies, pictures, music, users settings, keychain, bookmarks, email, contact, calenders etc. you can select not to import applications.

but when i used migration assistant with a cloned external backup after a clean install i was bombarded with simple OS crashes in crashreporter (not kernel panics) all the time and the responsiveness was very poor. i then did another fresh install and dragged my users library and main library along with apps, media etc while booted into the cloned backup. restarted into the main partition and everything was fine with all my stuff in the new system.
 
Sbrocket said:
Suppose I've got a bunch of scripts that I've written and put in /usr/libexec.
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Well that's hardly a common problem.

As for potentially incompatible kernel extensions installed by applications -- yes, that could conceivably be an issue. But if you reinstall those applications (and why would you not?), you're right back where you started.
 
IJ Reilly said:
Well that's hardly a common problem.
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"Both have their purposes and for most people there is no practical difference between an Upgrade and an Archive and Install (as long as they choose to Preserve Users and Network Settings). But that doesn't mean they're the same thing."
 
Definitely a complete erase and install for me. Clean out any muck and custom install only the parts I need.

Hope we get it soon and it's not just an announcement at the end of October for release November.
 
A New 500g Seagate Hd sitting on my shelf just waiting.
I think I'll spend the day reinstalling just so everything is fresh.
I can't see Apple being able to squash every little Tiger fluff in an upgrade.
 
Sbrocket said:
"Both have their purposes and for most people there is no practical difference between an Upgrade and an Archive and Install (as long as they choose to Preserve Users and Network Settings). But that doesn't mean they're the same thing."
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I take your point. Mine is that the vast majority of Mac users gain nothing from installing clean. Apple makes upgrading uniquely painless, but still, many people seem determined to inflict pain on themselves.
 
IJ Reilly said:
I take your point. Mine is that the vast majority of Mac users gain nothing from installing clean. Apple makes upgrading uniquely painless, but still, many people seem determined to inflict pain on themselves.
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I agree with what you're saying, don't get me wrong. Some people have a compulsion to completely reinstall and then redo everything from the ground up (Erase and Install) which unless there's a problem that they are actively trying to fix I really can't see much use in doing. I was replying more to the person who was asking what the difference was (if any) between an Upgrade and an Archive and Install.
 
Sbrocket said:
I agree with what you're saying, don't get me wrong. Some people have a compulsion to completely reinstall and then redo everything from the ground up (Erase and Install) which unless there's a problem that they are actively trying to fix I really can't see much use in doing. I was replying more to the person who was asking what the difference was (if any) between an Upgrade and an Archive and Install.
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Agreed. Compulsion does seem like the right word. Masochism also comes to mind. ;)
 
My iMac is only a week old, so i think ill just do an upgrade. If i do a clean install, i dont think ive used this enough to clutter it yet :)
 
My install method

1. Copy my list of apps. Click the apple symbol, open "about this mac" and then click on "more details". Then do "File-->Save As", chose RTF and you'll have a list of all apps and just about everything else about the current configuration. That'll help you replace any apps you installed and then can't remember their name later.
2. Copy all data files to the other HD in their regular, normal format (not using a backup app that "packages" them). For me, everything is in Documents, Movies, Music and Pictures and ALL of that is on a separate HD anyway. I still do a back up.
3. Run .Mac sync.
4. Run software updates in the off chance there are any firmware upgrades.
5. Make sure you have a good internet connection.
6. Do a clean install of the new OS.
7. Bask in the bi-annual glory :apple: style! :D
 
campbjr said:
1. Copy my list of apps. Click the apple symbol, open "about this mac" and then click on "more details". Then do "File-->Save As", chose RTF and you'll have a list of all apps and just about everything else about the current configuration. That'll help you replace any apps you installed and then can't remember their name later.
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Awesome suggestion, never thought of that, knew that the "about my mac" does that. That will come in handy. Thanks
 
Couple of questions...

Hi, I'm planning on doing an erase and install when Leopard arrives and just had a couple of questions about the process (specifically backing up), since I've never done it before (and admittedly makes me a little nervous).

I have an external firewire hard drive, so all back up I'm planning on doing on that.

1) There's just a couple of applications that I want to save (since I'll just reinstall, iLife '08 and Microsoft Office from the DVDs), what is the best way to do this? I have .Mac, so should I use Backup to save these or can I just drag and drop the applications I want to keep onto the external hard drive? Are there other things that I need to worry about along these lines?

2) Since I have .Mac, I assume that my Address Book, my mail settings, my iCal, my keychain, etc. can be resynced (from .Mac) once I complete the erase and install. Is that correct?

3) What about my iPhone? I know my iPod will sync back with no problem, but I'm a little worried about my iPhone. Will the phone still recognize this as the computer it originally was paired with? Will I have to restore the iPhone as well? Should I save the restore files that go along with the iPhone when I'm backing everything up?

4) Perhaps the stuff I am most worried about are my pictures (in iPhoto) and my music/videos (in iTunes). If I back these up (using .Mac Backup) can I restore them EXACTLY as they were before? (i.e. same albums, events in iPhoto and same playlists, play counts, etc in iTunes) Is .Mac Backup the best solution or is there a better way to do it?


I know this is a long a post and I really do appreciate all the help anyone can give me!
 
i just got my MBP in June. I should probably just do an upgrade, right? And with an upgrade, Mac Office files and iTunes files/library and all that stuff remains intact, right? Im not going to lose any of it?
 
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