"Leopard looks like ... Vista" Rant

Discussion in 'macOS' started by Sbrocket, Jul 25, 2007.

  1. Sbrocket macrumors 65816


    Jun 3, 2007
    Mary Jo Foley's not-so-recently but nevertheless particularly annoying post on ZDNet detailing how Mac OS Leopard apparently derives many of its features from the oh-so-great Vista (*cough*) tickled a particular spot. I don't know how content creators get away with this level of utter drivel without retort, and actually get commenters claiming to find truth in the claims presented. So, for your reading pleasure, I give you my point-by-point reply to technology expert Mary Jo Foley, "an unblinking eye on Microsoft", and her article: "Leopard looks like ... Vista." (Reproduced here for your comical reading pleasure) ;)

    By the way...this is a bit long.

    Original Article, by Mary Jo Foley:
    I just sat through my second Steve Jobs keynote ever. (My first was MacWorld in New York in 2002.)

    What struck me at the June 11 Apple Worldwide Developer Conference (WWDC) event wasn’t the glitzy demos, the rockstar-like worship of Apple CEO Steve Jobs or the “I’m Steve Jobs” parody video by the “I’m a PC” guy.

    Instead, it was the excitement by the 5,000 WWDC attendees about many technologies in the forthcoming Mac OS X “Leopard” release that already exist in Windows Vista.

    A few Mac-show regulars said they thought today’s WWDC audience wasn’t as engaged and enthused as Apple’s developers and customers normally are for a Jobs love-fest. Some said they thought developers were let down by Jobs’ failure to discuss the geekier bits, like Leopard’s use of the ZFS file system. others thought the crowd was subdued because they wanted more iPhone particulars and were let down by the lack of an iPhone software development kit. (Jobs told developers they could simply use existing Ajax and Web 2.0 development technologies to write to Safari, since the Safari engine inside the iPhone will be identical to the one for Mac OS X today.)

    To this Windows-show veteran, however, the WWDC developer audience seemed positvely effusive.

    I’ve sat through countless Microsoft demos of Vista at a variety of consumer and business events. I don’t remember ever hearing thunderous applause when Microsoft showed off Flip 3D or Vista’s ability to preview thumbnails of documents. The “wows” were few and far between. Yet when Jobs put almost identical versions of these features in Leopard through their paces, there were lots of oohs and ahhs.

    But if you’ve seen Vista, there’s no way you could help but compare the feature-complete Leopard beta Jobs showcased with Windows Vista. And — surprise — Vista looked pretty darn up-to-date in comparison.

    Jobs told WWDC keynoters that he would show ten of the best of the 300 new features coming in Leopard when it ships in October this year. Here’s what Jobs’ hit list looked like to this Windows user:

    1. New Leopard Desktop: Not a whole lot different from Vista’s Aero and Sidebar.

    2. New Finder: Many of the same capabilities as the integrated “Instant Search” in Vista (the subsystem that Google is trying to get the Department of Justice to rule as being anti-competitive). The new Leopard Coverflow viewing capability looked almost identical to Vista’s Flip 3D to me.

    3. QuickLook: Live file previews — just like the thumbnail preview capability available in Vista.

    4. 64-bitness: Leopard is the first 64-bit only version of a desktop client. Vista comes in 32-bit and 64-bit varieties. And most expect Windows Seven will still be available in 32-bit flavors. Until 32-bit machines go away, it seems like a good idea to offer 32-bit operating systems.

    5. Core animation: Not sure what the Vista comparison is here. The demo reminded me of Microsoft Max photo-sharing application. The WWDC developers attending the Jobs keynote didn’t seem wowed with this functionality.

    6. Boot Camp. You can run Vista on your Mac. Apple showed Vista running Solitaire in its WWDC demo. But I bet those downloading the 2.5 million copies of Boot Camp available since last year are running a lot of other Windows business apps and games.

    7. Spaces: A feature allowing users to group applications into separate spaces. I haven’t seen anything like in in Vista, but the audience didn’t seem overly impressed by it.

    8. Dashboard with widgets. Isn’t this like the Vista Sidebar with gadgets?

    9. iChat gets a bunch of fun add-ons (photo-booth effects, backrops, etc.) to make it a more fully-featured videoconferencing product. The “iChat Theater” capability Jobs showed off reminded me of Vista’s Meeting Space and/or the new Microsoft “Shared View” (code-named “Tahiti”) document-sharing/conferencing subsystems.

    10. Time Machine automatic backup. Vista has built-in automatic backup (Volume Shadow Copy). It doesn’t look anywhere near as cool as Time Machine. But it seems to provide a lot of the same functionality.

    Granted, I am not an Apple user. So I’m sure I’m glossing over some subtleties regarding what’s new and cool in Leopard. But given how often I hear the “Redmond, Start Your Photocopiers” message, I was thinking that Leopard would be light years ahead of Vista.

    So, Apple folks: What am I missing? I’m not trying to pull a Dvorak here and use this blog post for click bait. Why is Leopard so superior to Vista — other than the non-trivial fact that there will be just one version of Leopard that will be priced at $129 (as opposed to six-plus versions of Vista at a variety of price points well in excess of that amount)?

    Ok, here we go...

    1. Yeah, she's right. They aren't a lot different in the sense that you use both the Finder and Explorer's fancy new Aero to find your files. Great comparison there...(that was sarcastic, if you're of the mind like the original author).

    2. Spotlight is old, not new. If anything, Vista copied the idea of integrated search when it was added in Tiger in 2005 and announced even before then. I'm not sure how you can draw any comparison between between "Flip 3D" and Coverflow, not to mention that Coverflow is a feature introduced to Tiger in mid-cycle through iTunes. In other words...its another old feature that the original author fails to recognize.

    3. These features, again, are not related. Maybe the only relation between these is the fact that it shows you a picture of the screen. Vista's Thumbnail Preview has to do with Windows' Taskbar, not the Explorer. Quicklook is a feature in the Finder category that shows full file previews without opening an application.

    Why is this person writing this? Has she used either OS...? *sigh*

    4. Again the ignorance. All new Apple hardware is uses 64-bit processors, first of all. Not that it matters. Leopard is a full 64-bit OS...but its also a full 32-bit OS. Unlike Vista where you need separate versions and would need completely different installations between the 32-bit and 64-bit versions, Leopard fully supports 64-bit and 32-bit platforms. Thanks for highlighting one of Leopard's advantages, though.

    5. There is no comparison you can draw from Vista for Core Animation. Core Animation has to do with developers, not the end-user.

    6. I'm not sure what you're getting at here. Boot Camp really isn't a Leopard feature per se, more an expansion of the whole Mac hardware line to support BIOS emulation to boot Windows OSes.

    7. If you don't think that the audience was impressed by Spaces, one of the most requested OSX features ever (multiple desktop emulation), then you've got another more problems than I can help to address. Not having multiple desktops in this day and age, when it has been standard on open-source Linux systems for YEARS, is unforgivable. Its taken Apple forever to add it, I admit, but Vista is even farther behind. I guess Windows users will be waiting another 3(-6) years for Windows 7 to maybe get this. That'll be, what, Mac OS 10.7? Ouch.

    8. Dashboard was introduced in Tiger, not Leopard...sorry. Again this is a Vista copy of OSX, not the other way around.

    9. I've never personally used Meeting Space nor Shared View, so rather than embarrass myself like the original author of this article did by talking about technology she has no background in or knowledge about...I'm not going to refute it.

    10. Time Machine is aimed at making backing up effortless for the end user, which it does. While both support differential backup solutions, Time Machine's aim is not to be a simple backup solution thrown into the OS like a second thought but to increase the likelihood that a user will backup. I doubt most Vista users even know Volume Shadow Copy is there, given the general knowledge of most Windows users. Claiming that Time Machine is a copy of Volume Shadow Copy is ridiculous; if anything, Time Machine is more a copy of an open source UNIX tool like rdiff-backup instead. All it is on the backend is a simple backupd daemon; its the simple-to-use user interface that makes Time Machine a big feature. There's no way you can claim Volume Shadow Copy's interface is anywhere near Time Machine's ease of use or level of integration into the core OS.


    So, what's your opinion? Was I too blind in my support of Apple, or are they valid rebuttals? Does Mary Jo Foley really qualify to be posting such comparisons that neglect basic truths? Or am I just a tid bit crazy and a tid bit more touchy? :)
  2. Muzzway macrumors regular

    Jul 21, 2007
    I agree. This lady should have done more research before posting...
  3. AlexisV macrumors 68000


    Mar 12, 2007
    Manchester, UK
    I'd say she needed at least a tiny bit of knowledge about the subject she is attempting to write about.

    I like the way she glosses over subjects she know nothing about by saying 'didn't seem very impressive though'.

    What a shambolic piece of journalism.
  4. bartelby macrumors Core


    Jun 16, 2004
    At least she's got no reason to be biased towards M$:rolleyes:
  5. rowanhall macrumors member

    Dec 27, 2004
    Belfast, Northern Ireland
    Thought this bit was great...

    erm... all new apple machines are 64bit! A major benifit for leopard! (and leopard also supports 32bit for the older boxes)

    just seems a tad pathetic that shes claiming to be an IT journalist with such a narrow mind!
  6. Poogis macrumors member


    Jun 2, 2006
    London, UK
    Sorry to be slightly off topic here.

    Weren't the original G5s at the time billed as 64 bit?
  7. TBi macrumors 68030


    Jul 26, 2005
    Maybe because they are 64bit?
  8. bertpalmer macrumors 6502

    Apr 12, 2007
    I'm surprised to read such narrow minded rubbish from someone who is a technology journalist.

    Seems a bit thick to compare the two OS's, when she freely admits she has never used OSX! Her lack of knowledge really shows through.
  9. someguy macrumors 68020


    Dec 4, 2005
    Still here.
    I just wanted to add that the audience "didn't seem very impressed" by Spaces at WWDC because Jobs had already done a demo of it before this event had taken place.
  10. CorkBOY macrumors newbie


    Nov 1, 2005
    Cork Ireland
    She knows nothing

    She obviously knows nothing about the world of computers to make such a stupid comment , I hope apple go legal on her ass
  11. Spike099 macrumors regular

    Feb 18, 2007
    When I showed my friend Tiger, his comment was, that looks exactly like Vista. My answer was, no, Vista looks like Tiger.
    That women most definitely needs more knowledge of the subject before commenting.

    People always say that Macs are so expensive. The fact is that you get so much software with the OS. What compares with iLife in Windows? I haven't used Vista yet, but i'm sure it comes with Paint and Preview, don't forget notepad. When you purchase a PC, you need to then buy software. Office costs around 500$? You then get all the "upgraded" suites. OS X gives you alot of nice, full featured software right out of the box.

    A couple features of OS X that I absolutely love over Windows!

    1. You don't need to reformat every 6months to a year to keep a clean, virus, adware, spyware free computer.

    2. Low maintenance. No need to defrag. Nor run spyware/adware software every week.

    3. Backing up is easy. When I was using XP, I could never figure out how to backup my drive without spending money. (I'm sure this is different in Vista with Shadow Copy)

    4. Development! I absolutely love the development tools available in OS X... Xcode, IB... Excellent UI. Starts in a flash.
    Using Visual Studio, it first took about an hour to install. Once installed, it takes about 20 seconds to start Visual Studio, where it would then crash on me. I started out trying to develop apps on XP, and gave up in frustration.
    OS X was so easy to begin developing in Cocoa. I plan on becoming a developer using Cocoa one day. Still in University, so I have lots of time to learn.

    Okay, maybe i'll list some more advantages to OS X later. But for now I gotta continue working on my Windows 2000 box at work!
  12. superleccy macrumors 6502a


    Oct 31, 2004
    That there big London
    Aw... I find her naivety ever so slightly endearing.

    Just don't tell her the truth about Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

  13. DavidLeblond macrumors 68020


    Jan 6, 2004
    Raleigh, NC
    I have to disagree there. There are a lot of things wrong with .NET and there are a lot of things wrong with Cocoa. But as someone who codes both (I use a Mac at home but am a .NET developer at work) Visual Studio is still head over heels better than XCode and .NET is still head over heels easier to code in.

    I'm sure that will change. At least I hope it will. Some of it is personal preference, of course. I hate Objective-C :-/.
  14. topgunn macrumors 65816


    Nov 5, 2004
    1. I have 45 Windows boxes (mostly Win2K) and I have only had to wipe 3 of them and that was just a time saving device. Granted, if you have a Mac user and a PC user who both open every email attachment and click on every link and download every "fun" app, the Mac user will be much better off. However, if both users understand that there are bad things on the internet that want to hurt their PC, then the Windows user will have little problem keeping everything in tip-top shape.

    2. My comps defrag on a monthly schedule. As for the ad/spyware, see no 1.

    3. Here is how I backup my PC laptop: I have an external drive on which I created a "briefcase". I drag all of my files that I want backed up onto my briefcase. Everyday before I pack up, I plug in my external drive and tell the briefcase to update. It finds the files that have changed and grabs the most recent copy. Similarly, if a file has been deleted, it removes it from the briefcase. Very easy and everything I need to do it came with Windows.

    Mac OS is superior to Windows in most every way but I hate it when people try to pass off Windows as a steaming pile that is just waiting to explode. It is sort of like those infomercials where they make the product they are selling look good by being completely inept when it comes to using the traditional method.
  15. klex macrumors regular

    Jun 28, 2007
    I don't even know what to say. As someone who has used both vista and OSX, I am stunned by the article. This is exactly why people say you cannot rely on what you read the news. The author is better than many other journalists, however, as her conclusion are based on ignorance, not deliberate fabricated lies. I guess ignorance is truly a bliss.

    Yet, she has damaged her professional reputation. If I was the editor or hiring manager of a serious technology magazine, I would never hire this woman. Not because she thinks Vista is better than OSX, she is of course entitled to her opinions, but because she published an article without doing the necessary research. How would I be able to trust her? I would question the truth of every article she would ever write.
  16. Goldcard macrumors regular

    Jan 10, 2006
    St. Paul, MN
    wow, that is a sad sad sad article. could she not even open up wikipedia for some research? what a lazy *****. :p
  17. nbs2 macrumors 68030


    Mar 31, 2004
    A geographical oddity
    Wasn't this posted a while back, I think just after WWDC? A lot of the "not impressed" comments look familiar, as does the comparison of Flip3D and CoverFlow.

    EDIT: I am good. :D
  18. Dustman macrumors 65816


    Apr 17, 2007
    "8. Dashboard with widgets. Isn’t this like the Vista Sidebar with gadgets?"

    LOL, Yep. I'll give her that much, shes right on this one :p

    I mays well write a story about how horrible airline food is even though i've only see someone eat it on a movie.
  19. ultimateceej macrumors regular


    Jul 24, 2007
    HAHA nice analogy!! :D

    Has this lady even SEEN Tiger?!?!
  20. MacPossum macrumors 6502


    Jul 15, 2007
    Almost made my ice tea come out of my nose :eek:
  21. SteveG4Cube macrumors 6502

    Jul 22, 2002
    MontCo., PA
    Mini is still just a 32 bit Core Duo ;)
  22. mrchainsaw5757 macrumors regular


    Sep 6, 2006
  23. AlexisV macrumors 68000


    Mar 12, 2007
    Manchester, UK
    Stupid woman. It ISN'T 64 bit ONLY.
  24. Blubbert macrumors 6502

    Nov 1, 2006
    Not all Apple computers are 64 bit. The G5's were 64 bit, and now the C2D are 64 bit. The somewhat older, but still relatively new CD Macs are 32 bit.
  25. SMM macrumors 65816


    Sep 22, 2006
    Tiger Mountain - WA State

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