Leopard seems to have helped with uneven gradients

Discussion in 'iMac' started by Kuska, Oct 28, 2007.

  1. Kuska macrumors regular

    Kuska

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    Sep 14, 2006
    Location:
    Deep in The Weald, England
    #1
    Was ready to send iMac no.3 back to :apple: as the same old left to right gradient issue persisted. Anyhow Leopard arrived yesterday and I couldn't resist giving it a run through on this 2.8 machine this afternoon (Absolutely ripped through the installation by the way.)

    I first noticed that on start up the screen looked uniform....hmmm..... interesting, so as soon as the desktop appeared I put up the grey background.

    Now, a gradient is still there, but it is very, very, very much reduced - in fact on a par with my iMac G5 which has a screen I've always enjoyed using.

    So I'm going to keep this one and see how I get on with it, but even as I type this and am looking for the 'yellowing' it just isn't visible anymore.

    At last, an Alu iMac I can happily use.:D

    Anyone know why this has happened ?

    Using the sRGB calibration by the way - just my preference.
     
  2. Kuska thread starter macrumors regular

    Kuska

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    #2
    has anyone else noticed this improvement yet - I'm really interested to try and understand why this has happened ?
     
  3. RRK macrumors 6502

    RRK

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    #3
    It must not be as fun to talk about good screens as it is to complain about bad ones.
     
  4. IDanne macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 10, 2007
    #4
    That´s really interesting, what could possibly be the cause of that!?
    C´mon more posts on this from those who recieved leopard please!
     
  5. Washac macrumors 68020

    Washac

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2006
    #5
    Hi Ya

    Installed Leopard today on my 20 Inch Alu iMac....

    Top to Bottom Gradient still there, thing is the gradient I have does not seem as bad as some pics I have seen.

    Somebody has commented that they think the display looks sharper and clearer, that was without asking or prompting the reply, they just looked over my shoulder and made the comment...
     
  6. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    Palookaville
    #6
    This "gradient" thing is all about the viewing angle of the display. I'd be fascinated to find out how such a thing could be cured by the OS.
     
  7. IDanne macrumors newbie

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    Oct 10, 2007
    #7
    Maybe for the 20" but not for the 24".
     
  8. Kuska thread starter macrumors regular

    Kuska

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    Sep 14, 2006
    Location:
    Deep in The Weald, England
    #8
    Mac No.3

    Oh well, was back on the Alu iMac tonight - same location, lighting etc......and the yellowing was very noticeable again..........I'm getting extremely frustrated. Won't be for long though as after 3 machines, issues with all of them, having tried real hard to get on with the 3rd, having spent money on additional RAM, waiting at home for pick ups and deliveries, I've finally had enough. iMac no.3 is on it's way back.

    I have really tried to convince myself to accept this machine but the yellowing is just to much to put up with. The real shame, is that these new iMacs are just lighting fast and perfect in ever other way.(I never ever experienced any freezing issues but never had the chance to put these machines under any real strain).

    So for the time being I'm putting the issues I've experienced down to Alu iMac teething troubles and will be keeping an eye out for software updates and/ or hardware revisions - when the fixes come/ hardware updated I'll be back to the online store in a flash. I guess this revision is just not for me.

    Back to the iMac G5 for a little longer I guess.:(
     
  9. Wayfarer macrumors 65816

    Wayfarer

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  10. Leon Kowalski macrumors 6502a

    Leon Kowalski

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    #10
    Not sure what you meant by that, but the "gradient thing" and the "viewing angle thing" are entirely different issues.

    The gradients (on both 20" and 24") are display-uniformity defects -- visible from any viewing angle.

    The 20" also has a viewing angle "issue," but it's arguable as to whether that's a defect, or "just" a major downgrade from the previous-generation 20" iMac.

    For photos, see: http://picasaweb.google.com/TheLooby

    ...me too,

    Looby
     
  11. Nordichund macrumors 6502

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    Aug 21, 2007
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    Oslo, Norway
    #11

    The thing I am curious about is if this is such a serious issue and every new al iMac is affected then why aren´t the press and serious web sites like Cnet, Macworld, The Register etc. etc debating this problem. Surely if the new iMac range has a serious defect then wouldn´t this be news? Wouldn´t the press be covering it, instead of just a few posters complaining about it on a few Mac related message boards? I mean some of the press were lightening quick to pick up on some of Leopard´s minor teething problems.
     
  12. Leon Kowalski macrumors 6502a

    Leon Kowalski

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    #12
    Where's the press coverage of the "freezing" isssue? Is that also a myth?

    ...where's ONE photo of a new iMac with a uniform solid-color background?

    LK
     
  13. theSeaHawk macrumors newbie

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    Oct 27, 2007
    #13
    I went to the Apple Store in Bethesda on Friday the 26th specifically to investigate the screen gradient. I sat down in front of the 24" 2.8Ghz model and fired up powerpoint. Opened up a plain white slide and put it in slideshow mode, then stepped back to view. There it was, the right side was noticeably darker than the left side. Two other customers who wondered what I was doing could see it when I pointed it out, but said it wouldn't bother them.

    When I was printing black and white photos, nothing bothered me more, next to finding dust on my negatives, than hot spots and/or gradients on my prints from an improperly aligned enlarger. Seeing this on the iMac was enough to decide me not to buy a new one until they fix this issue.

    So I now have ordered and look forward to getting a 24" white iMac refurb, 2.15, from Apple online. Yes, I'd love a faster processor, more RAM expandability, better graphics card, more HDD space, but for now I'd rather just be able to look at the screen without issues and wait for the latest/greatest when they fix it.
     
  14. czachorski macrumors 6502a

    czachorski

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    Sep 24, 2007
    #14
    Where's your memory of those other threads where many have been posted?
     
  15. imacan macrumors regular

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    Montreal, Canada
    #15
    Where? Seriously, where can I find pics of a display without the problem since the fact that I have not seen one is the only reason for me not to ask for the display to be repaired right away because I think I would get another of the same.
     
  16. SaSaSushi macrumors 68040

    SaSaSushi

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    Takamatsu, Japan
    #16
    How about a few dozen?

    http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&ie=UTF-8&q=imac+freezing&btnG=Search

    You've already been offered plenty. How about you point us to the press coverage of the non-uniform screen "defect"?
     
  17. czachorski macrumors 6502a

    czachorski

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    Sep 24, 2007
    #17

    There are a few good ones in here. and a bunch in here as well as some posts of solid white walls with photographed gradients. And no, Leon, the gradients on the white walls are not blaming the camera. They are blaming uneven lighting in the room (and probably most rooms) that can obviously cause an issue with a photo.

    What I think is really going on here is a small percentage of genuinely bad screens, at a frequency that is much higher than is acceptable, but still nowhere near affecting all machines, and some very unlucky few who got multiple bad ones in a row who have congregated here and on other forums. Those with bad screens, have posted photos, and there is very obviously a problem with them. Some of those people have then called for anyone to post a photo of a good working iMac, on the theory that they are all bad based on discussions in forums, which is a flawed assumption right out of the gate due to the nature of forums.

    When genuinely good screens get photographed and posted they scrutinized under a microscope, photoshopped, enhanced, etc, to find a problem. What does that tell you? Some photos look perfect or very very good and some have a very slight gradient, probably caused by uneven ambient lighting in the room, the camera itself, or a real very low-grade gradient on the screen that is within specs but gets amplified on the photo or in the scrutiny process. These actual slight gradients or virtual gradients get all blown out of proportion and then used as "evidence" that all iMacs are bad by those who are hell-bent on "proving" that all iMacs are bad. Heck, we even photographed my high-grade 2 year old 20" Apple Cinema Display, and the lighting in my room, it showed a small gradient (one that happens to look the same as my iMac - very very slight). Trust me, if you come to my house, and use these screens, you will see that both are perfect.

    If the iMacs are shipping with a screen issue at a rate of 10%, that is way to high, is absolutely unacceptable, and needs to be fixed. Right away. Even at 5% or 1% the same is true. My guess is the actual failure rate is in this range. If it is 10%, 1 in 100 buyers will draw on those odds and get a dud twice. 1 in 1,000 will get a dud 3 times. They are selling these to hundreds of thousands of people. If the failure rate is that high, it is going to flood the forums with people with problems, including 100's or 1000's of people who got 2 or even 3 bad ones in a row. It will make it look terrible, like every single iMac must be flawed because tens of thousands of people may be complaining. It could be a total PR disaster for Apple and look real bad. And the real failure rate could be on the order of 1 to 10%. If the failure rate was 100%, there would be articles all over the tech world, in print and on-line. There would be class actions under way and no one like me (or thousands of others like me) posting in forums that theirs is working perfectly.

    It is called bias. Even in a photo. It is high around here. Don't let it fool you. The overwhelming vast majority of iMac buyers are not having screen brightness gradients. These are great machines, and if you get one, you will most likely be thrilled. If you get a dud, Apple will take it back, again, and again, until you get a good one.
     
  18. imacan macrumors regular

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    Jan 14, 2007
    Location:
    Montreal, Canada
    #18
    Thanks czachorski, I have to admit the pictures of Bolteh and yours on your first link are quite convincing, mine looks exactly as the picture from Revlimit Punk. I guess I will have to call Applecare for a display replacement then. :(
     
  19. Leon Kowalski macrumors 6502a

    Leon Kowalski

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    Gondwanaland Reunification Front HQ
    #19
    Here's my photographic memory -- two slices from a single photo of the
    same screen -- a photo offered as "proof" of a gradient-free 24" ALU iMac.

    ...it sure convinced me,

    LK


    "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king."
    - Desiderius Erasmus

    .
     

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  20. czachorski macrumors 6502a

    czachorski

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    #20
    So you are referring to one image of a gradient to refute dozens of perfectly good looking screens in those other thread. Weak and misleading. I was your random sample, and mine looks great, and I have posted pics, as I have promised. You have never acknowledge that, and you keep running out on limbs, that keep on breaking off beneath your feet.
     
  21. ThomasSoundD macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2007
    #21
    confirmed in sweden as well...

    been to 3 stores in 2 cities here in Sweden (malmö/lund)
    before and after leopard
    the 20" iMac "wash out color" issue was/is easy to spot before leopard though they have covered it up more nicely with leopard ( or latest calibration... )

    anyway...thats a 100% on all (20"iMacs, (the only one I was interested in of buying ) that shows the same problem.

    obviously not everyone is going to notice or bother

    "oblivious is a bliss"

    but in a working condition I would not go near someone saying that this screen is "ok"

    no deal
     
  22. czachorski macrumors 6502a

    czachorski

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    Sep 24, 2007
    #22
    I too concur that every 20" iMac I have seen has a slight but noticeable vertical gradient, that I wonder if it is caused by viewing angles on a low-quality panel.

    And since we are talking about photographic memories here, here is the conveniently forgotten about side-by-side of left/right screen edges of Leon's supposedly perfect, "upgraded" white iMac from his web photos. Folks - give this man no credibility. He is hell-bent on bashing the iMac and making false claims that every single iMac is defective, even based on evidence of gradients in photos that shows up in his own self-proclaimed perfect iMac. At what point is it fair to conclude that a perfect screen *just might* photograph less than perfectly, when even the main scrutinizer of these photos has a gradient in his own photo of his own perfect screen????

    [​IMG]
     
  23. pechspilz macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Oct 30, 2007
    #23
    I know you are into this percentage thing about how many iMacs show a gradient and how many do not. Honestly, I don't care about percentage. I just want a good quality display with no gradients, no changing colors if not extactly looking at the center of the screen (20") - and I'm unable to get one. I know what I've seen at home and at the Apple store downtown. That was enough to convince me that there are A LOT of bad displays out there, 20" and 24". As of yet I've seen a lot more (about 20:1) bad display photos than good ones. And most of the supposedly good ones are shown from fancy angles and/or with colorful background images. I was unable to see any gradient with the Leopard background theme but as soon as I changed it to a neutral lightgray - there it was.
     
  24. Leon Kowalski macrumors 6502a

    Leon Kowalski

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    #24
    Three slices (left, center, right) directly from your "looks great" original:

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=4369245#post4369245

    ...no comment necessary,

    LK
     

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  25. Leon Kowalski macrumors 6502a

    Leon Kowalski

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    #25
    Still tryin' to sell that same ol' lame ol' "perfection" straw man? That's a smokescreen entirely of your own invention. As clearly stated in every post I've made on the subject, my only claim WRT my 20" iMac is that its MAX:MIN brightness differences are no larger than 20% -- according to direct, screen-contact light meter readings. Your side-by-side slices from my picasaweb photos strongly support the 20% claim, and if anything, suggest that it was overly conservative. Feel free to analyze any of the photos -- by any means you wish.

    http://picasaweb.google.com/TheLooby

    A brightness difference of 20% is well within Apple's (TCO'03) spec for the 20" Cinema Display (which uses exactly the same LCD panel as my iMac) -- or any other ACD, for that matter. All displays are "imperfect," but all "imperfections" are not created equal...

    ...tune-in Sesame Street for a refresher course on "big" and "little,"

    LK
     

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