iPhone 8(+) Let's talk 4k 60fps on the iPhone 8 Plus

Travisimo

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 22, 2009
985
223
One of the most significant upgrades on the iPhone 8 Plus is the addition of 4K video recording at 60 fps. This was something I was really looking forward to because I started shooting 4K with the release of the iPhone 7 Plus last year, but I also felt the trade-off between 1080p/60 and 4k/30 was a difficult one. This year, the trade-off is no longer a matter of frame-rate.

I do not wish to debate the merits of 4K video recording itself, because that's a personal choice one has to make depending on their own use case. What I want to do is obsess over the details of the 4K 60 fps shooting mode in particular, making some comments and asking some questions.

ENABLING 4K/60: First of all, Apple does not make this mode obvious, probably because the majority of iPhone users will never use it. To enable it, you need to go into Settings / Camera / Formats and turn on "High Efficiency" mode (which switches the encoding from H.264 to H.265 HEVC). Once you change that, then you can go to the Record Video setting and change it to 4K at 60 fps. When you go back into the camera, you'll see the 4K 60 label when changing to video mode.

LIMITATIONS:

1) Switching Lenses - You cannot switch between the wide and zoom lenses during video recording in 4K 60. So if you start recording with the wide lens and try to zoom in, it will be digital zoom only. If you want to record video with the tele lens, you need to switch to 2x before recording. Just something to be aware of.

2) OIS only - no EIS - Though Optical Image Stabilization continues to work when shooting 4K 60, there is no "cinematic stabilization", which is electronic stabilization that makes recording even more smooth than OIS (though it also can introduce artifacts). So you'll notice that 4K 60 is not as stable as other recording modes, but it will still be decently stable with OIS only.

3) Storage requirements - Shooting in 4K uses a LOT of storage space, but using the "High Efficiency" setting will ease that a bit. You actually cannot shoot in 4K 60 without this turned on, but you can leave it off it you shoot in 4K 30 or lower (though you won't get the saved storage space from the more efficient HEVC codec).

4) HEVC compatibility - If you shoot in 4K 60 (or High Efficiency turned on in other modes), be aware that there's a couple of different ways to deal with compatibility when exporting footage to apps and computers. If you go to Settings / Photos, you'll see a choice between "Automatic" and "Keep Originals" under Transfer to Mac or PC. It is my understanding that if you leave it on Automatic, Apple will try to determine whether your destination device supports H.265 HEVC. If it does, it will keep the videos in that format, but if it does not, it will automatically reencode to H.264, which will use a lot more storage space.

I have tested this a bit on my iMac running the High Sierra update. If I transfer the video to my iMac using Airdrop, it seems to convert to H.264 no matter what. If I transfer using the Image Capture app or the Photos app, it retains the HEVC format.

QUESTIONS:

1) Bitrate - I'm trying to figure out the bitrates for 4K 60 recording. It appears to me that when it records in HEVC, it uses a bitrate of around 55mbps. If you record (or if it transcodes) to H.264, then it seems the bitrate is 100+mbps. I'm not well-versed in HEVC, but I believe that 55mbps for HEVC would be considered a very good bitrate, especially given that HEVC doesn't need as high of a bitrate since it is more efficient in compressing. Is that a good understanding?

2) Recording time - I haven't been able to test this fully yet, but there doesn't appear to be a limit to recording time when shooting 4K 60. Is that true? If so, that's a pretty remarkable feat, given that most Android phones (and even a lot of dedicated cameras) have recording time limitations of 10 minutes of less just when shooting 4K 30, let alone 4K 60.

3) iMovie on Mac - I literally just updated iMovie on my iMac running High Sierra and it says it now supports HEVC. Has anyone tried to do any editing of 4K 60 fps footage yet? Is it significantly more intensive than 4K 30? Are you able to export the video at 4K 60 or does it limited to 4K 30 when exporting?

What kind of experiences have you guys had shooting 4K 60 on your new iPhone? Personally, I am thrilled with it, despite the limitations. I will be using it as my default shooting mode, especially when there's subjects in motion, or when I plan to do quite a bit of panning.

Thank you for your time.
 

ataq

macrumors regular
Oct 29, 2006
104
74
Hi,

great breakdown of the new 60fps on the iPhones. The only feature I wanted were the 4k 60fps. I love it.
I made exactly the same test and experience as you with all the doubling checking of the files codec and bitrate etc...
I normally use the mavis app to record highest quality video (it's like filmic pro). The "pro" recording apps seem to have difficulties to record smooth 4k 60fps for now. The videos are stuttering and showing 48fps instead of 60fps.

When comparing an 4k 30fps recorded in HEVC to one recorded within a pro app with 100mbps setting, the HEVC file is lower in bitrate quality. So my understanding is that even with 50% of the size of an h264 file, the video does not look as good as a video which has been recorded with 100mbps setting and h264. The converting from HEVC to h264 and making it double the size and showing a bitrate around 100mbps is not the same as shooting with the settings 100mbps and h264. I guess the apps have to be updated first and aligned to iOS 11 and the new cameras.

Check out my first attempt to doing some video and editing: Good Morning Gratitude — Shot on iPhone 8 (4K Cinematic)
 

Travisimo

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 22, 2009
985
223
Hi,

great breakdown of the new 60fps on the iPhones. The only feature I wanted were the 4k 60fps. I love it.
I made exactly the same test and experience as you with all the doubling checking of the files codec and bitrate etc...
I normally use the mavis app to record highest quality video (it's like filmic pro). The "pro" recording apps seem to have difficulties to record smooth 4k 60fps for now. The videos are stuttering and showing 48fps instead of 60fps.

When comparing an 4k 30fps recorded in HEVC to one recorded within a pro app with 100mbps setting, the HEVC file is lower in bitrate quality. So my understanding is that even with 50% of the size of an h264 file, the video does not look as good as a video which has been recorded with 100mbps setting and h264. The converting from HEVC to h264 and making it double the size and showing a bitrate around 100mbps is not the same as shooting with the settings 100mbps and h264. I guess the apps have to be updated first and aligned to iOS 11 and the new cameras.

Check out my first attempt to doing some video and editing: Good Morning Gratitude — Shot on iPhone 8 (4K Cinematic)
Right, the converting from HEVC to h264 is not going to result in better video quality even if the bitrate rises (because HEVC is more efficient and doesn't need a bitrate as high). I have yet to compare for myself, but I was under the impression that 4K 60 shot in HEVC at about 55mbps would have similar (if not better) video quality than the same footage shot in h264 at 100mbps. But this may be a misunderstanding on my part. Either way, a bitrate of 50+mbps for HEVC in 4K seems to be more than enough from everything I read.

Nice video, BTW.
 

ataq

macrumors regular
Oct 29, 2006
104
74
Thanks, I will report back when I did more testings with video/image comaprisons when the pro apps bring full support for the new cameras.
 
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cynics

macrumors G4
Jan 8, 2012
11,313
1,696
One of the most significant upgrades on the iPhone 8 Plus is the addition of 4K video recording at 60 fps. This was something I was really looking forward to because I started shooting 4K with the release of the iPhone 7 Plus last year, but I also felt the trade-off between 1080p/60 and 4k/30 was a difficult one. This year, the trade-off is no longer a matter of frame-rate.

I do not wish to debate the merits of 4K video recording itself, because that's a personal choice one has to make depending on their own use case. What I want to do is obsess over the details of the 4K 60 fps shooting mode in particular, making some comments and asking some questions.

ENABLING 4K/60: First of all, Apple does not make this mode obvious, probably because the majority of iPhone users will never use it. To enable it, you need to go into Settings / Camera / Formats and turn on "High Efficiency" mode (which switches the encoding from H.264 to H.265 HEVC). Once you change that, then you can go to the Record Video setting and change it to 4K at 60 fps. When you go back into the camera, you'll see the 4K 60 label when changing to video mode.

LIMITATIONS:

1) Switching Lenses - You cannot switch between the wide and zoom lenses during video recording in 4K 60. So if you start recording with the wide lens and try to zoom in, it will be digital zoom only. If you want to record video with the tele lens, you need to switch to 2x before recording. Just something to be aware of.

2) OIS only - no EIS - Though Optical Image Stabilization continues to work when shooting 4K 60, there is no "cinematic stabilization", which is electronic stabilization that makes recording even more smooth than OIS (though it also can introduce artifacts). So you'll notice that 4K 60 is not as stable as other recording modes, but it will still be decently stable with OIS only.

3) Storage requirements - Shooting in 4K uses a LOT of storage space, but using the "High Efficiency" setting will ease that a bit. You actually cannot shoot in 4K 60 without this turned on, but you can leave it off it you shoot in 4K 30 or lower (though you won't get the saved storage space from the more efficient HEVC codec).

4) HEVC compatibility - If you shoot in 4K 60 (or High Efficiency turned on in other modes), be aware that there's a couple of different ways to deal with compatibility when exporting footage to apps and computers. If you go to Settings / Photos, you'll see a choice between "Automatic" and "Keep Originals" under Transfer to Mac or PC. It is my understanding that if you leave it on Automatic, Apple will try to determine whether your destination device supports H.265 HEVC. If it does, it will keep the videos in that format, but if it does not, it will automatically reencode to H.264, which will use a lot more storage space.

I have tested this a bit on my iMac running the High Sierra update. If I transfer the video to my iMac using Airdrop, it seems to convert to H.264 no matter what. If I transfer using the Image Capture app or the Photos app, it retains the HEVC format.

QUESTIONS:

1) Bitrate - I'm trying to figure out the bitrates for 4K 60 recording. It appears to me that when it records in HEVC, it uses a bitrate of around 55mbps. If you record (or if it transcodes) to H.264, then it seems the bitrate is 100+mbps. I'm not well-versed in HEVC, but I believe that 55mbps for HEVC would be considered a very good bitrate, especially given that HEVC doesn't need as high of a bitrate since it is more efficient in compressing. Is that a good understanding?

2) Recording time - I haven't been able to test this fully yet, but there doesn't appear to be a limit to recording time when shooting 4K 60. Is that true? If so, that's a pretty remarkable feat, given that most Android phones (and even a lot of dedicated cameras) have recording time limitations of 10 minutes of less just when shooting 4K 30, let alone 4K 60.

3) iMovie on Mac - I literally just updated iMovie on my iMac running High Sierra and it says it now supports HEVC. Has anyone tried to do any editing of 4K 60 fps footage yet? Is it significantly more intensive than 4K 30? Are you able to export the video at 4K 60 or does it limited to 4K 30 when exporting?

What kind of experiences have you guys had shooting 4K 60 on your new iPhone? Personally, I am thrilled with it, despite the limitations. I will be using it as my default shooting mode, especially when there's subjects in motion, or when I plan to do quite a bit of panning.

Thank you for your time.

1. This is a loaded question. But yes your overall understanding is correct. Comparing identical videos h265 will have a lower bitrate at the same quality.

However keep in mind bitrate is variable and having a higher or lower bitrate isn't "better" especially when referencing the encoding and decoding devices at once.

2. No sure. But there

3. I updated iMovie in Sierra for HEVC. And my test with 4k60hz are lackluster at best however I'm going to hold on to my opinion until I update to HS in a few minutes (once my backup is done). Currently I've lost 60fps option all together and my 4k60fps exports are 30fps. However I'll post back in a bit to see if HS update sorts this out.

Apple has done a good job making HEVC user friendly however its frustrating for testing. Using a friends phone I had him iMessage me a 4k60fps video however it transcoded the video on the fly to send to me. This is cool because he can send it to anyone and it will play fine, but annoying if you want to play the original video. Eventually I had him mail drop it, I THOUGHT I got the 4k60hz h265 video because it didn't play well (massive judder) on my 6S however looking at it in VLC reports h264. Not exactly sure what is going on yet.

EDIT: Just re read your post about airdrop transcoding. It looks like its transcoding the video even with Mail Drop! Jeez what a pain, I'm updating to HS to see if I can get this file or if Apple is going to keep forcefully manipulating it.
 
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Travisimo

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 22, 2009
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3. I updated iMovie in Sierra for HEVC. And my test with 4k60hz are lackluster at best however I'm going to hold on to my opinion until I update to HS in a few minutes (once my backup is done). Currently I've lost 60fps option all together and my 4k60fps exports are 30fps. However I'll post back in a bit to see if HS update sorts this out.

Apple has done a good job making HEVC user friendly however its frustrating for testing. Using a friends phone I had him iMessage me a 4k60fps video however it transcoded the video on the fly to send to me. This is cool because he can send it to anyone and it will play fine, but annoying if you want to play the original video. Eventually I had him mail drop it, I THOUGHT I got the 4k60hz h265 video because it didn't play well (massive judder) on my 6S however looking at it in VLC reports h264. Not exactly sure what is going on yet.

EDIT: Just re read your post about airdrop transcoding. It looks like its transcoding the video even with Mail Drop! Jeez what a pain, I'm updating to HS to see if I can get this file or if Apple is going to keep forcefully manipulating it.
It appears that Apple has not enabled encoding in 4k/60 or in HEVC in iMovie on either the Mac or iOS. I tried a simple editing job in both, and the only option is "4k" with no mention of frame rate. When I checked the edited file, it is only 30 fps and it is in h264, and at a lower bitrate as well (even with Best selected). I made sure to add the 4k/60 file to iMovie first so it would use that clip as the setting for the project. Still not retaining 4k/60, so I'm guessing Apple just hasn't implemented yet (if it even will, or maybe it's saving that "feature" for FCPX when it is updated). I tried it on my iPhone too in the iMovie app and it too is just 4k/30 when encoding.

I hope Apple fixes this soon. There's not much point in being able to shoot in 4k/60 if you can't edit it and retain it in iMovie on iOS or on the Mac. Sure, they updated iMovie on the Mac so that it can READ the files, but if you lose the 60 fps and HEVC encoding ability, you lose both advantages of the new format (higher frame rate and more efficient encoding without having to re-encode again).

Are we missing something, or do we just need to wait on Apple to update again?
 

peck1234

macrumors newbie
Sep 30, 2017
13
1
Im on the 8 as well. My main upgrade decision was based on 4k 60fps like many others. I immediately noticed 4k 60fps was super shaky; which then lead me here to confirm the lack of EIS in this shooting mode. VERY disappointing. I really enjoy the freedom of shooting high quality video from my phone and don't want to use any additional equipment such as gimbals, tripod etc. to have stable video in 4k 60fps mode.

1080p 60fps is still going to be my format of choice due to fact that its the most stabilized mode at the highest framerate. If apple could somehow implement EIS into 4k 60fps that would be amazing but time will tell. I think the A11 has the power to do so.

Additionally I would like to see separate file format options for VIDEOS and PHOTOS. There is no reason why i shouldn't be able to choose to capture my photos as .jpeg and videos as HEVC. HEVC just makes sense to me space savings wise. But .heic does not. WHY? Shooting in .heic means EVERY TIME you email/message/airdrop a friend the extension changes to .jpg. From my understanding its not just a container change (think .zip file) its a Transcode and transcoding in ANY format = quality loss.

Lastly im eagerly awaiting 4k 60fps export in imovie on IOS as well. Even IF i choose to shoot in 1080 60fps and upsample on export my still images will still look far superior. Exporting in HEVC would be very nice since youtube now can decode/encode this format.
 
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ataq

macrumors regular
Oct 29, 2006
104
74
1. This is a loaded question. But yes your overall understanding is correct. Comparing identical videos h265 will have a lower bitrate at the same quality.

However keep in mind bitrate is variable and having a higher or lower bitrate isn't "better" especially when referencing the encoding and decoding devices at once.

2. No sure. But there

3. I updated iMovie in Sierra for HEVC. And my test with 4k60hz are lackluster at best however I'm going to hold on to my opinion until I update to HS in a few minutes (once my backup is done). Currently I've lost 60fps option all together and my 4k60fps exports are 30fps. However I'll post back in a bit to see if HS update sorts this out.

Apple has done a good job making HEVC user friendly however its frustrating for testing. Using a friends phone I had him iMessage me a 4k60fps video however it transcoded the video on the fly to send to me. This is cool because he can send it to anyone and it will play fine, but annoying if you want to play the original video. Eventually I had him mail drop it, I THOUGHT I got the 4k60hz h265 video because it didn't play well (massive judder) on my 6S however looking at it in VLC reports h264. Not exactly sure what is going on yet.

EDIT: Just re read your post about airdrop transcoding. It looks like its transcoding the video even with Mail Drop! Jeez what a pain, I'm updating to HS to see if I can get this file or if Apple is going to keep forcefully manipulating it.
For the converting on the fly, did you try to "keep originals" at the bottom of the page in the Photos settings? You can either transcode automatically (h264) or keep the originals (h265).
 

Starfyre

macrumors 68030
Nov 7, 2010
2,738
970
One of the most significant upgrades on the iPhone 8 Plus is the addition of 4K video recording at 60 fps. This was something I was really looking forward to because I started shooting 4K with the release of the iPhone 7 Plus last year, but I also felt the trade-off between 1080p/60 and 4k/30 was a difficult one. This year, the trade-off is no longer a matter of frame-rate.

I do not wish to debate the merits of 4K video recording itself, because that's a personal choice one has to make depending on their own use case. What I want to do is obsess over the details of the 4K 60 fps shooting mode in particular, making some comments and asking some questions.

ENABLING 4K/60: First of all, Apple does not make this mode obvious, probably because the majority of iPhone users will never use it. To enable it, you need to go into Settings / Camera / Formats and turn on "High Efficiency" mode (which switches the encoding from H.264 to H.265 HEVC). Once you change that, then you can go to the Record Video setting and change it to 4K at 60 fps. When you go back into the camera, you'll see the 4K 60 label when changing to video mode.

LIMITATIONS:

1) Switching Lenses - You cannot switch between the wide and zoom lenses during video recording in 4K 60. So if you start recording with the wide lens and try to zoom in, it will be digital zoom only. If you want to record video with the tele lens, you need to switch to 2x before recording. Just something to be aware of.

2) OIS only - no EIS - Though Optical Image Stabilization continues to work when shooting 4K 60, there is no "cinematic stabilization", which is electronic stabilization that makes recording even more smooth than OIS (though it also can introduce artifacts). So you'll notice that 4K 60 is not as stable as other recording modes, but it will still be decently stable with OIS only.

3) Storage requirements - Shooting in 4K uses a LOT of storage space, but using the "High Efficiency" setting will ease that a bit. You actually cannot shoot in 4K 60 without this turned on, but you can leave it off it you shoot in 4K 30 or lower (though you won't get the saved storage space from the more efficient HEVC codec).

4) HEVC compatibility - If you shoot in 4K 60 (or High Efficiency turned on in other modes), be aware that there's a couple of different ways to deal with compatibility when exporting footage to apps and computers. If you go to Settings / Photos, you'll see a choice between "Automatic" and "Keep Originals" under Transfer to Mac or PC. It is my understanding that if you leave it on Automatic, Apple will try to determine whether your destination device supports H.265 HEVC. If it does, it will keep the videos in that format, but if it does not, it will automatically reencode to H.264, which will use a lot more storage space.

I have tested this a bit on my iMac running the High Sierra update. If I transfer the video to my iMac using Airdrop, it seems to convert to H.264 no matter what. If I transfer using the Image Capture app or the Photos app, it retains the HEVC format.

QUESTIONS:

1) Bitrate - I'm trying to figure out the bitrates for 4K 60 recording. It appears to me that when it records in HEVC, it uses a bitrate of around 55mbps. If you record (or if it transcodes) to H.264, then it seems the bitrate is 100+mbps. I'm not well-versed in HEVC, but I believe that 55mbps for HEVC would be considered a very good bitrate, especially given that HEVC doesn't need as high of a bitrate since it is more efficient in compressing. Is that a good understanding?

2) Recording time - I haven't been able to test this fully yet, but there doesn't appear to be a limit to recording time when shooting 4K 60. Is that true? If so, that's a pretty remarkable feat, given that most Android phones (and even a lot of dedicated cameras) have recording time limitations of 10 minutes of less just when shooting 4K 30, let alone 4K 60.

3) iMovie on Mac - I literally just updated iMovie on my iMac running High Sierra and it says it now supports HEVC. Has anyone tried to do any editing of 4K 60 fps footage yet? Is it significantly more intensive than 4K 30? Are you able to export the video at 4K 60 or does it limited to 4K 30 when exporting?

What kind of experiences have you guys had shooting 4K 60 on your new iPhone? Personally, I am thrilled with it, despite the limitations. I will be using it as my default shooting mode, especially when there's subjects in motion, or when I plan to do quite a bit of panning.

Thank you for your time.
Love the thorough post <3

About #2...
2) OIS only - no EIS - Though Optical Image Stabilization continues to work when shooting 4K 60, there is no "cinematic stabilization", which is electronic stabilization that makes recording even more smooth than OIS (though it also can introduce artifacts). So you'll notice that 4K 60 is not as stable as other recording modes, but it will still be decently stable with OIS only.

I don't think that is true, EIS can only do so much, OIS is better than EIS (just like how optical zoom is much better than digital zoom). When the iPhone 6 and 6+ came out, OIS on the 6+ was a big deal. The 6 was advertised as having EIS which when you look at actual usage, the iPhone 6+ video quality is so much better visibly than the iPhone 6.

What kind of 4K videos at 60 fps do you record? I've been watching some videos about how 24 fps is best for cinematic style, 30 fps is more for 'home video', what do you do with 60 fps?
 

Travisimo

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Dec 22, 2009
985
223
Im on the 8 as well. My main upgrade decision was based on 4k 60fps like many others. I immediately noticed 4k 60fps was super shaky; which then lead me here to confirm the lack of EIS in this shooting mode. VERY disappointing. I really enjoy the freedom of shooting high quality video from my phone and don't want to use any additional equipment such as gimbals, tripod etc. to have stable video in 4k 60fps mode.

1080p 60fps is still going to be my format of choice due to fact that its the most stabilized mode at the highest framerate. If apple could somehow implement EIS into 4k 60fps that would be amazing but time will tell. I think the A11 has the power to do so.

Additionally I would like to see separate file format options for VIDEOS and PHOTOS. There is no reason why i shouldn't be able to choose to capture my photos as .jpeg and videos as HEVC. HEVC just makes sense to me space savings wise. But .heic does not. WHY? Shooting in .heic means EVERY TIME you email/message/airdrop a friend the extension changes to .jpg. From my understanding its not just a container change (think .zip file) its a Transcode and transcoding in ANY format = quality loss.

Lastly im eagerly awaiting 4k 60fps export in imovie on IOS as well. Even IF i choose to shoot in 1080 60fps and upsample on export my still images will still look far superior. Exporting in HEVC would be very nice since youtube now can decode/encode this format.
All good points. I think the OIS works good enough for me when shooting 4k/60, but it's definitely not as stabilized as the combination of OIS and EIS (or "cinematic" stabilization, as they seem to call it). EIS has a tendency to introduce artifacts anyway, so if I need something more stabilized than straight OIS, I would definitely choose to use a gimbal (I just received my Smove Pro and will be giving that a try for more "cinematic" footage).

Yes, I'd agree that their should be a separate setting for video and photos.
[doublepost=1506806308][/doublepost]
For the converting on the fly, did you try to "keep originals" at the bottom of the page in the Photos settings? You can either transcode automatically (h264) or keep the originals (h265).
Even with "Keep Originals" turned on, it still transcodes when you use Airdrop. It does keep HEVC when importing with Photos, however, which is good. Not sure why they choose to convert when using Airdrop from iPhone to Mac even when running High Sierra (it should just keep them HEVC without transcoding).
 

Bel3Bel

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2017
6
0
OK I investigated this. At the moment the best way to do it (but it will cost you 30$ for 2 apps) seems to be:

1) create your video with MoviePro. MoviePro allows you to add EIS next to OIS and change the bitrate in both h264 and h265. You can use a setting of 225 or 250% as the highest setting. Also it allows you to change the microphone settings to an external microphone or just the microphone on the top front side (which I use) to reduce wind noise.

2) copy your recorded videos to your filmroll in the photo's app (don't edit the videos in MoviePro, it doesn't support 4k export).

3) Now, for your video project, download and install Lumafusion app for IOS. This is a professional video-editing app offering you the ability to set multiple framerates for export, including 60fps in 4K.

or...let's hope an whait untill Apple adds 4k 60 fps export to iMovie.
 
Last edited:

Nozuka

macrumors 68020
Jul 3, 2012
2,233
2,714
Love the thorough post <3

About #2...
2) OIS only - no EIS - Though Optical Image Stabilization continues to work when shooting 4K 60, there is no "cinematic stabilization", which is electronic stabilization that makes recording even more smooth than OIS (though it also can introduce artifacts). So you'll notice that 4K 60 is not as stable as other recording modes, but it will still be decently stable with OIS only.

I don't think that is true, EIS can only do so much, OIS is better than EIS (just like how optical zoom is much better than digital zoom). When the iPhone 6 and 6+ came out, OIS on the 6+ was a big deal. The 6 was advertised as having EIS which when you look at actual usage, the iPhone 6+ video quality is so much better visibly than the iPhone 6.

What kind of 4K videos at 60 fps do you record? I've been watching some videos about how 24 fps is best for cinematic style, 30 fps is more for 'home video', what do you do with 60 fps?

i think he meant EIS in combination with OIS, not EIS alone. ;)
 
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peck1234

macrumors newbie
Sep 30, 2017
13
1
OK I investigated this. At the moment the best way to do it (but it will cost you 30$ for 2 apps) seems to be:

1) create your video with MoviePro. MoviePro allows you to add EIS next to OIS and change the bitrate in both h264 and h265. You can use a setting of 225 or 250% as the highest setting. Also it allows you to change the microphone settings to an external microphone or just the microphone on the top front side (which I use) to reduce wind noise.

2) copy your recorded videos to your filmroll in the photo's app (don't edit the videos in MoviePro, it doesn't support 4k export).

3) Now, for your video project, download and install Lumafusion app for IOS. This is a professional video-editing app offering you the ability to set multiple framerates for export, including 60fps in 4K.

or...let's hope an whait untill Apple adds 4k 60 fps export to iMovie.
I use Vegas Pro for all my video ediitng on my pc regardless so I can export 60fps XAV-C at 120mBps. But yes Im am eagerly awaiting an iMovie update. Hopefully with higher bitrate exports.

As far as lumafusion goes ive used it recently and ended up requesting a refund. Simply because after rendering any photo or video the colors dont match the original source. (still frame comparisons) where as iMovie maintains the same colors.
 

peck1234

macrumors newbie
Sep 30, 2017
13
1
Well with the newest update Apple lets us to use JPEG for photos and HEVC for videos very happy with that.
 

Bel3Bel

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2017
6
0
Well with the newest update Apple lets us to use JPEG for photos and HEVC for videos very happy with that.
Great! That is a promising first step. I already am using a workaroud, using Camera+ for Jpeg and MoviePro for HEVC 4k 60fps @ a bitrate of 120mb/s
The standard HEIF image compression really produces too much noise if you compare them with Jpeg images. After taking the pictures you’ll notice when you zoom in on the HEIF images that, especially in low light conditions, there is a lot more noise than on Jpegs, shot in the same conditions.
 
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ZEEN0j

macrumors 65832
Sep 29, 2014
1,502
673
The camera does switch lenses when zooming in when recording. There’s even a setting to stop it from doing it in the settings app.
 

ahunt01

macrumors member
Feb 13, 2009
44
73
Wisconsin
One of the most significant upgrades on the iPhone 8 Plus is the addition of 4K video recording at 60 fps. This was something I was really looking forward to because I started shooting 4K with the release of the iPhone 7 Plus last year, but I also felt the trade-off between 1080p/60 and 4k/30 was a difficult one. This year, the trade-off is no longer a matter of frame-rate.

I do not wish to debate the merits of 4K video recording itself, because that's a personal choice one has to make depending on their own use case. What I want to do is obsess over the details of the 4K 60 fps shooting mode in particular, making some comments and asking some questions.

ENABLING 4K/60: First of all, Apple does not make this mode obvious, probably because the majority of iPhone users will never use it. To enable it, you need to go into Settings / Camera / Formats and turn on "High Efficiency" mode (which switches the encoding from H.264 to H.265 HEVC). Once you change that, then you can go to the Record Video setting and change it to 4K at 60 fps. When you go back into the camera, you'll see the 4K 60 label when changing to video mode.

LIMITATIONS:

1) Switching Lenses - You cannot switch between the wide and zoom lenses during video recording in 4K 60. So if you start recording with the wide lens and try to zoom in, it will be digital zoom only. If you want to record video with the tele lens, you need to switch to 2x before recording. Just something to be aware of.

2) OIS only - no EIS - Though Optical Image Stabilization continues to work when shooting 4K 60, there is no "cinematic stabilization", which is electronic stabilization that makes recording even more smooth than OIS (though it also can introduce artifacts). So you'll notice that 4K 60 is not as stable as other recording modes, but it will still be decently stable with OIS only.

3) Storage requirements - Shooting in 4K uses a LOT of storage space, but using the "High Efficiency" setting will ease that a bit. You actually cannot shoot in 4K 60 without this turned on, but you can leave it off it you shoot in 4K 30 or lower (though you won't get the saved storage space from the more efficient HEVC codec).

4) HEVC compatibility - If you shoot in 4K 60 (or High Efficiency turned on in other modes), be aware that there's a couple of different ways to deal with compatibility when exporting footage to apps and computers. If you go to Settings / Photos, you'll see a choice between "Automatic" and "Keep Originals" under Transfer to Mac or PC. It is my understanding that if you leave it on Automatic, Apple will try to determine whether your destination device supports H.265 HEVC. If it does, it will keep the videos in that format, but if it does not, it will automatically reencode to H.264, which will use a lot more storage space.

I have tested this a bit on my iMac running the High Sierra update. If I transfer the video to my iMac using Airdrop, it seems to convert to H.264 no matter what. If I transfer using the Image Capture app or the Photos app, it retains the HEVC format.

QUESTIONS:

1) Bitrate - I'm trying to figure out the bitrates for 4K 60 recording. It appears to me that when it records in HEVC, it uses a bitrate of around 55mbps. If you record (or if it transcodes) to H.264, then it seems the bitrate is 100+mbps. I'm not well-versed in HEVC, but I believe that 55mbps for HEVC would be considered a very good bitrate, especially given that HEVC doesn't need as high of a bitrate since it is more efficient in compressing. Is that a good understanding?

2) Recording time - I haven't been able to test this fully yet, but there doesn't appear to be a limit to recording time when shooting 4K 60. Is that true? If so, that's a pretty remarkable feat, given that most Android phones (and even a lot of dedicated cameras) have recording time limitations of 10 minutes of less just when shooting 4K 30, let alone 4K 60.

3) iMovie on Mac - I literally just updated iMovie on my iMac running High Sierra and it says it now supports HEVC. Has anyone tried to do any editing of 4K 60 fps footage yet? Is it significantly more intensive than 4K 30? Are you able to export the video at 4K 60 or does it limited to 4K 30 when exporting?

What kind of experiences have you guys had shooting 4K 60 on your new iPhone? Personally, I am thrilled with it, despite the limitations. I will be using it as my default shooting mode, especially when there's subjects in motion, or when I plan to do quite a bit of panning.

Thank you for your time.
How have you confirmed that there is no EIS shooting 4k @ 60FPS? I suspect this to be true because I notice all my 60FPS footage tends to be on the shaky side, but I want to know how you have confirmed this? Are you just assuming this to be true, or have you found actual evidence of it? Thanks!!!
[doublepost=1509640384][/doublepost]Okay, I just spoke with an Apple Senior Advisor about this. He said that "iPhone lacks EIS for any 4K mode. EIS is only used when shooting 1080P and 720P. For those rates, the iPhone uses EIS and OIS. For 4K at any frame rate, ONLY OIS is used."
[doublepost=1509640661][/doublepost]I just tested this myself, and sure enough, all 4k footage looks like it lacks EIS at every framerate option. Switch it to 1080@60FPS, and the Apple EIS witchcraft kicks-in and the footage is smooth as butter.
 

Bel3Bel

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2017
6
0
How have you confirmed that there is no EIS shooting 4k @ 60FPS? I suspect this to be true because I notice all my 60FPS footage tends to be on the shaky side, but I want to know how you have confirmed this? Are you just assuming this to be true, or have you found actual evidence of it? Thanks!!!
[doublepost=1509640384][/doublepost]Okay, I just spoke with an Apple Senior Advisor about this. He said that "iPhone lacks EIS for any 4K mode. EIS is only used when shooting 1080P and 720P. For those rates, the iPhone uses EIS and OIS. For 4K at any frame rate, ONLY OIS is used."
[doublepost=1509640661][/doublepost]I just tested this myself, and sure enough, all 4k footage looks like it lacks EIS at every framerate option. Switch it to 1080@60FPS, and the Apple EIS witchcraft kicks-in and the footage is smooth as butter.
Bitrate: That is why I am using Moviepro to record 4k60fps HEVC. In that app. Set the settings to 250% in order to record HEVC at around 120mb/s instead of just 55mb/s of the normal IOS app.

EIS: Moviepro also has a rather agresive setting for EIS. I found it best to leave it to ‘standard’, bu it wiil let you go the extra mile if you choose to, even in 4k60fps. But it neeeds more work though. Also I found my iPhone running hot at those settings and eating through the battery at a rather unhealthy pace..
 

ahunt01

macrumors member
Feb 13, 2009
44
73
Wisconsin
Bitrate: That is why I am using Moviepro to record 4k60fps HEVC. In that app. Set the settings to 250% in order to record HEVC at around 120mb/s instead of just 55mb/s of the normal IOS app.

EIS: Moviepro also has a rather agresive setting for EIS. I found it best to leave it to ‘standard’, bu it wiil let you go the extra mile if you choose to, even in 4k60fps. But it neeeds more work though. Also I found my iPhone running hot at those settings and eating through the battery at a rather unhealthy pace..
Interesting about EIS using Moviepro. I have been shooting 4k @60fps with the stock camera app, and importing to my puter and using FCPX to stabilize. It works great, naturally. BUT, I would much rather just using EIS on my phone and edit with iMovie on IOS and export to Youtube for simplicity sake. Mostly I take kiddo movies and I'd rather not have to take the time editing with FCPX. I'll give Moviepro a whirl. Weird with the A11 Bionic that Apple doesn't enable EIS for 4k footage. Stupid if you ask me..
[doublepost=1509645223][/doublepost]I'm not able to enable 4k 60 FPS using MoviePro. It keeps reverting to 1080. I can only shoot 4k @ 30FPS... I have an iPhone 8+
 

Bel3Bel

macrumors newbie
Oct 1, 2017
6
0
Interesting about EIS using Moviepro. I have been shooting 4k @60fps with the stock camera app, and importing to my puter and using FCPX to stabilize. It works great, naturally. BUT, I would much rather just using EIS on my phone and edit with iMovie on IOS and export to Youtube for simplicity sake. Mostly I take kiddo movies and I'd rather not have to take the time editing with FCPX. I'll give Moviepro a whirl. Weird with the A11 Bionic that Apple doesn't enable EIS for 4k footage. Stupid if you ask me..
Yes I agree, it feels like ‘halfway there’ what Apple sold us. It is strange that you have to use third party apps to get towards a proper 4k60fps project on your IOS device. It is by no way simple. Because you also have to beware to safe the movies in the MoviePro app (instead of saving them straight to the filmroll) first and then copy them to the filmroll. Furthermore you’ll have use another third party app (Lumafusion) to not only create your project, but to be succesfull in exporting it to a 4k60fps movie. Hopefully Apple will set this right in 11.3
 

SimpleJack69

macrumors newbie
Nov 3, 2017
1
0
Earth
Can someone help me with exporting?

iPhone 8+, shot in 4k 60fps. I'm trying to get everything to my MBP (high sierra) as fast as possible because I need to get these clips uploaded to youtube.

I changed the settings in photos to transmit originals as stated above, but when I go into the photos app, the video library, and select all my videos, and then go to airdrop... it goes "WAITING" and then "CONVERTING."

I then cancel it, because I was under the impression if I said keep originals it would just send it over as is.

Is there any other way to get these videos to my MBP? Am I doing something wrong?