Let's Tell O2 what we think... LOOK EVERYONE!

Discussion in 'iPhone' started by npdale, Sep 22, 2007.

  1. npdale macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    #1
    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/saynotoO2

    Come on guys, O2's tariffs need addressing... I REALLY want to get an official iPhone but O2 cannot be serious about the price they are asking for the service they are delivering...

    - only 30% coverage... meaning how many of us get NOTHING in the months after launch (note: they didn't even have EDGE coverage at their own launch event in London! So how quick can they be sorting it?)

    - Inferior wifi service : Since T-Mobile have starbucks, airports, hotels, bars, restaurants etc etc etc where do cloud actually cover? This was clearly a last min attempt to make the rubbish EDGE coverage seem less, but doesn't do much to stop the majority of the UK having no coverage, once again!

    - Abismal allowances for texts and calls... the UK market is at a VERY advanced stage and with other tariffs offering MUCH more for the same price or less then they need to offer more... I'd happily pay it IF the texts and calls were realistic at least... I mean on camparable tariffs...

    http://shop.o2.co.uk/tariffs

    http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/shop/mobi...nthly/flext/18mth-flext-50-5-off-line-rental/

    http://shop.vodafone.co.uk/index.cfm?go=paymonthly.selectaplan&numCategory=3&WT.sv1=link2

    these are to highlight but a few... including tariffs from O2 themselves, which just highlight what a joke the iPhone tariffs are.

    Also (we shall gloss over the legality of locking a phone in the EU especially one that isn't supplimented by the service provider) What you also have to remember is that these plans that are £35-£55 include a highly subsidised or FREE phone, often of comparable value to the beloved iPhone (don't get me wrong here - i think the iPhone price point is spot on) and thats why you pay more for the monthly tariff, because the service provider (O2 etc) subsidise the unit in exchange for the 12/18 month contract.

    Here we pay FULL price for the phone but still expect to also pay a full monthly rate... we should be getting cheaper tariffs because O2 don't have to subsidise the unit. OK so that rumoured 40% profit "share" with Apple is harsh, but hey, thats their screw up.. not our fault if their negotiators are rubbish is it?

    So basically I am lodging complaints and a petition with those compaints.

    I am taking it to O2 in one month and I am also writing to the press to highlight this issue (since they seem to enjoy mocking the iPhone price).

    So please, everyone who feels that O2 are being a little silly/downright outrageous with these deals, click, sign the petition and lets see what happens... it doesn't take long to register and it could make a difference..

    (oh and everyone who says "apple and O2 will only listen with revenues" and protest by not buying... thats not going to happen and I know that... but don't be so niaeve to think that customer complaints don't dictate policy change, especially very noisy ones :)... I have spent many years in companies and it is just this kind of thing that can make a difference. The point is not to get immediate change but for them to reconsider and perhaps alter them after Nov 9th to more reasonable deals... everyone would benefit.)

    http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/saynotoO2
     
  2. one1 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    #2
    I see a lot of tariff complaints. What would the total cost in USD be for everything to get up and going? ...... so I can understand the fuss.
     
  3. npdale thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    #3
    well directly converting UK into USD

    iPhone - $540
    Activation - free
    Tariffs -

    $ 70 - cheapest
    $ 90 - mid
    $110 - highest

    :S
     
  4. one1 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2007
    Location:
    Chattanooga, TN
    #4
    Free activation though. It seems to balance out fairly well with a little grace in our favor.

    I mean.... you pay like $10 a gallon for gas. High prices aren't anything new. In regards to imports....You gotta expect items based in the US to cost more overseas. (I didn't say made, i said based)
     
  5. sananda macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    #5
    yes, i think most people think the price of the phone is fine. it's the o2 tariffs. the cheapest tariff has a total of 200 mins. it does not compare well to the cheapest at&t tariff which has 5000 off peak mins (450 peak mins). the at&t iphone tariffs appear to acknowledge that there is no phone subsidy to recover and therefore are at a reasonable cost in comparison to their other tariffs. whereas the o2 iphone tariffs appear to offer no discount when compared to their other tariffs.
     
  6. FreeState macrumors 68000

    FreeState

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #6
    Please, you can't compare AT&T US minutes with the UK O2 - O2 has free incoming calls - AT&T does not. Looks like you have a better deal than those here in the US. IMO.
     
  7. sananda macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    #7
    the difference between 200 mins and 5450 mins more than allows for incoming calls difference. and of course we pay a higher rate to call mobiles (compared to landlines) which is why we don't pay for incoming calls.
     
  8. aristobrat macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    #8
    I'm not sure I'm following. AT&T's voice plans (tarrifs) are the same price regardless of whether your an iPhone customer or not. $39.99 = 450 anytime minutes, $59.99 = 900 anytime minutes, etc.

    T-Mobile and Sprint give customers more anytime minutes for the same amount of money. Verizon typically matches AT&T's minutes.

    The only "reasonable cost" that AT&T offers iPhone users is unlimited EDGE for $20.00. Normally that's $40.00 for PDAs. But even that's not a direct comparison, as the $40.00 PDA plan comes with 1500 SMS messages, whereas iPhone users have to pay another $10.00 to get 1500 SMS messages, making the $20 data plan actually $30 if you want to text a lot. Total savings for most iPhone users = a whole $10/month.

    Again, comparing that to other carriers, T-Mobile offers unlimited EDGE + WiFi for the same price ($20), and Sprint offers unlimited 3G data for $15.00.

    So it's not like AT&T's really a great value here in th US for iPhone customers.
     
  9. Sobe macrumors 68000

    Sobe

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Location:
    Wash DC suburbs
    #9
    Have you ever stopped to consider that the iPhone is subsidized by virtue of the contract with the wireless provider?

    What do you think the price of the iPhone would be if Apple had no deal with O2?

    The same?

    Higher?

    I would expect it to be significantly higher to reflect the lost revenues from monthly service contracts.

    Just because you have to pay for the phone and it is expensive doesn't mean that there isn't a subsidy.

    That subsidy is spread out over the life your contract as Apple recoups money from the wireless companies.

    Really, this is not difficult to grasp.
     
  10. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Location:
    First university coding class = 46 years ago
    #10
    Why are you petitioning O2, when it's Apple that's the greedy one?

    It's Apple that's taking 40% of your monthly bill as pure profit for themselves, on top of the hardware profit for the phone sale itself.

    As long as people act like sheep and give Jobs lots of extra spending cash for no reason whatsoever, he's going to keep taking it.

    Also, AT&T couldn't charge full data rates since it's only EDGE, not 3G. I suspect O2 could do the same, except for the extra monthly Apple payment you make via the bill.
     
  11. sananda macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    #11
    whilst not great it does seem to offer a reduction.
     
  12. FreeState macrumors 68000

    FreeState

    Joined:
    Jun 24, 2004
    Location:
    San Diego, CA
    #12
    The UK doesn't have free nighttime minutes? Do any of the carriers offer that? (the anytime minutes are basically free nights and weekends)
     
  13. sananda macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    #13
    i'd happily pay more for an iphone to account for the loss in revenue to apple from service contracts. but i'm not a typical customer. i'm often abroad for extended periods and prefer an unlocked phone so i can put in a local sim card (otherwise it would be prohibitively expensive).
     
  14. sananda macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    #14
    no, there are no evening or weekend minutes. it's 200 mins in total for the month.

    plenty of other tariffs have some sort off peak minutes allowance.
     
  15. Dagless macrumors Core

    Dagless

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    Location:
    Fighting to stay in the EU
    #15
    Pricing could be a little better. If they just double the allowances I'll be more than happy.

    As for The Cloud? Pretty much every pub, club, library, even the major train stations have The Cloud stickers here. Which I am very happy with. My cousins bar uses it.
     
  16. sananda macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    May 24, 2007
    #16
    that's good. no cloud around my part of london.
     
  17. kdarling macrumors demi-god

    kdarling

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2007
    Location:
    First university coding class = 46 years ago
    #17
    I don't think it's subsidized. At least, not in any usual way that benefits the user. Instead, all the subsidy goes into Apple's pockets.

    Obviously the same price that you pay for it at an Apple store, where they don't care one whit if you activate it or not. Apple makes about $100 gross profit off each sale.

    If it were subsidized, it'd be nearly free, because the ~$350 that Apple gets from your sign-up and monthly bill would normally have gone towards the phone.

    As you said, it's an easy concept to grasp :)
     
  18. nwlondonlad macrumors 6502a

    nwlondonlad

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Location:
    UK London
    #18
    Tell that to all the people who are now unlocking the Iphone
     
  19. Sobe macrumors 68000

    Sobe

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Location:
    Wash DC suburbs
    #19
    I have, a few times probably.

    Not much can be done about it, but at the very least let's call it what it is...people who unlock phones are having their iPhones subsidized by those of us who don't.

    Obviously sort of lacks the wisdom of experience in this case since we're speculating on something that doesn't exist.

    Is it that hard to grasp that a phone that now costs $399 could cost $599, $699 or more if Apple were not receiving revenue from contracts to subsidize those prices?

    It doesn't have to be the old model for it to still be a valid observation.

    The bottom line is that Apple charges what it does, knowing it will get some money back on contracts with the wireless companies. If that stream of revenue were never at issue, I find it massively deceptive to insist that the price would be identical.

    Not every phone is available free with a contract. Some you have to pay quite a bit extra.

    For example, if you go to Sprint and want a Treo™ 700wx.

    The list price is $649.99, then they take off $350, then offer a $150 Mail in Rebate for a cost of $199.99.

    That's not free.
     
  20. BlakTornado Guest

    BlakTornado

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2007
    Location:
    Washington, OH
    #20
    What we need is a Pay as you Go contract to stop all these complainers!
     
  21. aristobrat macrumors G4

    Joined:
    Oct 14, 2005
    #21
    I'm not sure that's right. AT&T has 17 PDA/smartphones listed on their site. AT&T charges full data rates on all of them, but yet only 4 of those devices are 3G capable. :confused:
     
  22. jecapaga macrumors 601

    jecapaga

    Joined:
    Jul 1, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    #22
    So about what I paid on iphone day..give or take a couple bucks
     
  23. metoo6000 macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2007
    Location:
    London, UK
    #23
    Yes, Yes, yes! Plus unlimited data plan option (about 10 pounds per month?).
     
  24. Sobe macrumors 68000

    Sobe

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    Location:
    Wash DC suburbs
    #24
    I think the argument is not so much the price, but rather that the plan leaves something to be desired.

    Of course one could be proxy for the other as well.
     
  25. nwlondonlad macrumors 6502a

    nwlondonlad

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2007
    Location:
    UK London
    #25
    I Just can't seem to get over why O2 is ripping us off with their ****** Iphone tariffs. I've done a bit of research and here are some of my findings.

    The £35 tariff comes to 200 Min's, 200 texts and unlimited data + cost of the phone £269 + 18 months contract.

    Its crazy cos if you go O2's website on the Sim only pay monthly option (SIMPLICITY), they offer a much juicer tariff.

    £35 a month = 1200 (anytime Min's any network) + 1000 texts + free long weekend texts (2000 Min's) or free weekend texts (2000). The contract length is for a minimum of a month (as it should be because your not getting a free phone)

    Yes I know a lot of you will shout and jump on me and complain that the deal comes with no unlimited data plan. But O2 can't say that they are offering a lousy 200 Min's and 200 texts because they are offering you free data. I think I would rather have the above tariff with no data and have an option to pay per mb or be offered a kind of web n walk option where you pay an extra flat rate per month like £10 for unlimited data. (O2 has already stated that they are working to offer something similar to all their contract customers from Oct 1st but prices have not been confirmed).

    I do not think O2 is justified in forcing the consumer to have an unlimited data package when a large percentage of people MAY not use that option. I mean taking myself for example, I've got wifi access internet usage from home and access to a the net at work so that would rule out using data in those two places. I wont be able to use it on my Way to work cos I'm on the train where there is no access and would probably be making using of the Ipod option anyway. Furthermore why would i risk draining my battery on a wifi or edge connection over important calls or texts? Don't get me wrong I would need to occasionally use some data for instances where you might go to the cinema and need to find times but i cant see myself spending hours and hours on the iphone browsing the net.

    The real reason why the tariffs on O2 are so bad for the iphone IMO are that.

    1) O2 needs to cough out a percentage of the money they make on the iphone to apple.(But thats their fault not the consumers).

    2) O2 is the only carrier of the iphone in the UK and therefore can monopolize the market by offering ****** contracts. I mean why else would they offer two different contracts for £35 one having 200 Min's and the other having 1200mins other then the reasons i have just mentioned.

    Like I said in my other post, I think the only way forward is to buy the Iphone and somehow unlock it and go for that Sim only option. (remember the Sim only contract is a minimum of a month so you can change it for something else subject to giving 30 days notice).

    Someone said something about the Iphone has been subsidized and that apple and O2 therefore need to get their money back over the 18 moths contract! I don't buy into that, I'm sure i remember reading somewhere that the Iphone costs under £200 to make. Further more your contract with O2 starts when you ACTIVATE the phone via itunes and lock yourself into an 18 month contract and NOT when you buy the iphone from an apple or 02 shop, hence if you can find a way around activating it without registering it on O2 (which apparently can be done) then I'm sure you wont get either O2 knocking at your day demanding you sign up. For apple its a win win situation, they make a buck off you either way.

    I'd have gladly paid up to £400 for an iphone which gives me an option to us it on any network of my choice. :cool:
     

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