Level of Web Programming for this Projet

Discussion in 'Web Design and Development' started by kitki83, Oct 10, 2007.

  1. kitki83 macrumors 6502a

    Mar 31, 2004
    Los Angeles
    I just wanted to get an idea about the level of web design and programming required for a project being proposed to me.

    Basically a client informed me they want to create a website that is similar to My Space, where people and clients are able to log in and create (within the limitation of the template) their own page for reviews or promoting a product. The site has a calendar where the users can input a dates and information, this allows others to sign up and be registered with the business/product/etc. This requires programming that creates some sort of database that sorts the inputted and outputs the information to send to the clients to know whose interested in their product.

    I just wanted to know what the clients told me what type of web programming and design is required.

    I just started web design and learning programming later, I think this site requires PHP but I feel more server sided programming is needed. What do you think?

    FYI, I am not doing this project but I feel my client is touching grounds they don't fully understand because they think by reading my entry level HTML/CSS books will fulfill what he wants.
  2. ChicoWeb macrumors 65816


    Aug 16, 2004
    Something like this is heavy level development. You'll need someone who is knowledgeable on designing web applications to define the requirements as well as developer to make your requirements come to fruition. This is not your typical 5 page site.
  3. kitki83 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mar 31, 2004
    Los Angeles
    But is this PHP, or more like complex programming?
  4. janitorC7 macrumors 6502a


    Feb 10, 2006
    North Hollywood, CA
    I;m working on a similar project at the moment, but its more of an online community.

    I have to tell you that where you start is way before programming, and that is creating your own social grid, and deciding connections and networks, and how people and tags are linked together, what sections you have an how they tie in, who can see them, who can create them, and things like that, its all about the social grid.

    after all this interface design is very important, think navigation, and simplicity of use.

    Then after all that is when I can start telling you that programming is needed.

    Yes, PHP is needed, and a great great knowlage of it at that. SQL is also a must, RUBY on RAILS would also be great here, you have to have DOM knowlage, and internet security as you will be dealing with peoples personal information.

    For a ground up online community, we are spending about $100,000 and that is for licensed technologies that we are using, that does not include what I am being paid, or what I;m paying the coders working under me.

    If you do not need everything done youself however, I recommend starting with a framework, such as Drupal e107 or Joomla!
  5. demallien macrumors regular

    Oct 13, 2005
    If you are a talented beginner, this will take around about 18 months full-time, to learn the technologies involved, issues with security and scaling, and actually doing the web design work. And yes, you rae going to have to know how to program like a champ, this is not a simple idea to implement.

    If you are not a talented programmer, you may as well multiply that by 10, = 15 years.

    When does your "client" want the site by?
  6. Mantat macrumors 6502a

    Sep 19, 2003
    Montréal (Canada)
    If you are willing to learn ruby on rails, look for the book <rails space>, it introduces to RoR by doing a Myspace type of site from a to z.

    But still, this is a huge project...
  7. jhande macrumors 6502

    Sep 20, 2006
    Uhm, while people have their own opinions on the relative merits/demerits of a language, this is not a PHP question. It is, as ChicoWeb says, extremely heavy level development requirements stuff.

    You can create complicated websites in PHP, like, oh MacRumors :D, and simple 5 page sites as well.

    Likewise you can do it in python, perl, haskell, COBOL (really), and if you are particularly masochistic assembly.

    What are the requirements? What are the scalability issues? What about security? What about..... etc. Use the paradigms that work for you, your designer(s), and developer(s).

    Based on all that, create a prototype. Create it on paper. I love using postits on my windows in my office. People come in a chat, and look at it. Once in a blue moon someone says "that doesn't look right". More often than not, they spot something I have overlooked.

    Make a budget. Time and money. Double it. Then double it again.

    After several iterations of all of the above, look at your programming resources (people, languages, libraries (especially the latter -- this is one of the reasons PHP exploded. As my old CS professor said "it's the libraries, stupid"), and methodologies (To MVC or not to MVC)). Only then decide on the language. Hm.. the above is not in quite the correct order, but you get the picture.

    This, of course, does not apply when learning a new language. But for commercial stuff.... oh yeah.
  8. saltyzoo macrumors 65816


    Oct 4, 2007
    There's going to be a lot of server side code on that project. You could do it in php, though there might be arguments for using more sophisticated languages. You're going to need a pretty good grasp of relational database programming as well to make it perform well and scale.
  9. angelwatt Moderator emeritus


    Aug 16, 2005
    I think a summary of the answers here would be: If you have to ask this question, then it's over your head.

    No offense meant, just a reality check.
  10. Cabbit macrumors 68020


    Jan 30, 2006
    Wrong thing to say to any newb. It took me 8 months to go from no php skills to my own cms. People can learn even if its not perfect as long as there willing. Having a big project makes you work hard to achieve it.
  11. saltyzoo macrumors 65816


    Oct 4, 2007
    My reading comprehension skills told me that he already understands that it's over his head. Not sure what benefit it did him to point it out.

    Everything is over your head until you do it once. Then it is boring.
  12. kitki83 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mar 31, 2004
    Los Angeles
    To angelwatt

    No I am not even touching this project, its way off my grounds of HTML/CSS I have been self teaching. My client is being stubborn thinking how he approaches his business plan will be easy and can be done with my entry level web books. I keep telling him that PHP, server sided scripting and database are complex things to self teach in his "timeframe" I hope from everyones comments I can knock sense into him, don't want to discourage him but his approach is horrible because;

    1. He never made Business Plan/Logo/Who we are brainstorm.
    2. Never thought out how the flow of the web would be, mock ups, sketches, what he wants to include so everything is all in his head attitude. His website concept change three times since I talked to him.
    3. Doesn't want to look into freelancers on Craiglist or other similar sites because it feels unsafe and he can get scam. I told him thats why you ask for a portfolio to see if they are capable.

    Thanks everyone,
  13. ChrisA macrumors G4

    Jan 5, 2006
    Redondo Beach, California
    This is not something a beginner could do. This is not somthig one person could do. You'll be looking at a profesional development team. The first person to hire is an experianced progect manager with a good track record. Let him thenm hire other senior member of the team.

    Yu are right it is more then just a bit of PHP. I would imagine there is a DBMS that holds the data and some web servers that make querries. Then how wil this scale if it becomes populare? How many transactions persecond can your design handle and how to take parts off line for maintainance and how will the load balance around to machines that are down? I've worked on these issues and they are all non-triveal and no one person is skilled in all areas. That is where a good manager earns his 6-figure pay.

    But yu know what? There are already on-line services that will do all this for you. There are some companies that will offer you a product review back end and host all the data all you have to do is link them into your site and pay a monthly fee.
  14. angelwatt Moderator emeritus


    Aug 16, 2005
    I was just summarizing what others said in case people didn't want to read everything that was already posted. I know I generally don't read long post.
  15. kitki83 thread starter macrumors 6502a

    Mar 31, 2004
    Los Angeles
    Thank you everyone, now I can explain the complexity of this project is and how my client approach is stupid. He thinks reading HTML Intro books is the way to go. I recommended it as to know the lingo and won't say comments like, "Make this video here and jaz it up!" That word brings nightmares. I think his approach to this business is bad, he doesn't have business plan and some sort of sketches of navigation. Just seems he jumped in bought three years of Goddady website and crap load of domain websites, yes I cringe when he said that.

    Thank you
  16. riyasin123 macrumors newbie

    Sep 11, 2014
    Heavy level development best for any kind of web development services. want to create a website which is user friendly created by good web developers who has more experience in this field.
  17. 960design, Sep 19, 2014
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2014

    960design macrumors 68030

    Apr 17, 2012
    Destin, FL
    Every client I work with thinks we can automagically create complex web applications over the weekend. I'm a coding fool and can knock out some serious stuff, pretty quickly ( implied humble ).

    Clients typically have no idea what they want, but they want us to get it done in a couple of days. I seriously had someone ask me to create a work order system ( easy peasy ), but called me the same day to see if it was done; not four hours after they spoke to me, rambling about what they needed. It took them two hours to sort of come up with an idea of what they wanted with my guidance and they think I can write / test something like they do in the movies. Clients typically have ridiculous expectations; that's why I charge ridiculous prices.

    Back to business; your request is pretty extensive. I've written several iterations of the same project you are describing. The request is fairly common for web applications. The initial coding took about 6 months. I now kick something out like that in half the time ( mostly due to the modular type coding initially done ).

    The tech I'd use:
    AJAX ( which really is just a specific combo of PHP and Javascript for 'saveless' client use workflow ).

    Using AJAX with HTML5 contentEditable makes the webpages directly editable by administrators. They literally can change the content directly on the webpage in real time.

    Try to work your design away from the 'Save' button, but not away from the 'Publish' button. I mentioned above where direct editing is possible, but not recommended. Misspellings or missthoughts are too easily introduced without the review of others or yourself. This is why a Publish button is needed, well in my opinion.

    The most difficult thing is proper UI. The user experience and workflow should be thought out first. Sit down and sketch out what the pages should look like, what each button does. Once you get a solid design down, the rest is easy.

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