Linux on my Mac? What for?

[leet1]

Originally posted by besson3c
What if your hardware isn't detected properly? How do you decide what partition scheme to use? What if you want to use a firewall, is the novice going to recompile the kernel with IPFW/IPTables support? Do you need a /var partition? How big should it be? How big should the swap space be? Sure the installer may suggest some values here, but this is far from novice territory.

Not sure what you do if your hardware isn't detected, as it was all detected on my laptop and my desktop.

It asks you what partition scheme you want to use.

If you want to use a firewall, you choose "firewall" option when your installing, lol. Then you go through what levels you would like to set it to.

All the partition stuff was handled by druid, the built in partition handler. It allowed me to choose the open space I left after installing windows, then it set up the swap and /boot things. You don't have to know how much to use, it does it itself.

Once you have the OS installed, who holds the root password? Can regular users do everything they need to do without the root password?

You can make the root password nonexistant if you like, then you do't have to worry about that.

No it isn't, RPMs are notorius for having severe dependency problems. How do you uninstall programs? RPMs kind of suck.

I don't know about dependency problems as I haven't run into those, but when you want to uninstall a program, you just go to the menu, under configure, then click on remove software. Pretty simple.

What if you don't buy the idea that Wizards account for a good UI?

Then you don't use linux, lol I don't know. Its a matter of opinion if its a good UI or not I guess.

 

[Nermal]

Originally posted by leet1
Oh yea me too I guess in a way. Except I Want it to overthrow OSX too Too proprietary, hehe.

You're kidding, right? OS X is probably the least proprietary commercial OS out there!

 

[Nermal]

Originally posted by besson3c
What if you don't buy the idea that Wizards account for a good UI?

A decent OS has few (or no) wizards. If a task is so complicated that you need a wizard to do it for you, then they should work on making the task easier, rather than "cheating" and getting a wizard to work around it.

 

[leet1]

Originally posted by Nermal
You're kidding, right? OS X is probably the least proprietary commercial OS out there!

Oh really? Can you use OSX on a pim device? handheld pc? Really old hardware? lol x86? This is what I was talking about, heh

Linux can be considered a commercial OS, since its sold to major companies as well

 

[besson3c]

Originally posted by leet1
It asks you what partition scheme you want to use.

You're not getting my point. How is your Grandma going to know what partition scheme she should use? Sure the defaults will work fine, but this isn't novice territory.

If you want to use a firewall, you choose "firewall" option when your installing, lol. Then you go through what levels you would like to set it to.

What if you select no, not knowing what a firewall is, and decide you want one later?

You can make the root password nonexistant if you like, then you do't have to worry about that.

and this makes security better how (your previous argument)? Every modern OS has an admin-type user and regular users. One of Windows' biggest problems now is that people need to be administrators, yet administrators can *completely* mess up a computer.

I don't know about dependency problems as I haven't run into those, but when you want to uninstall a program, you just go to the menu, under configure, then click on remove software. Pretty simple.

Obviously, the Mac way is far simplier. If you haven't run into dependency problems, you obviously haven't used Linux much. No offense.

 

[Nermal]

Apple have to make their money somewhere. Letting OS X run on anything will kill Apple. But look at how much of their system is open source. You can compile the kernal for practically any architecture, and lots of the base system is open source. Sure, the UI is proprietary, and so are the apps, but it's a lot more open than Windows!

Linux is not really a commercial OS. Sure, you can buy it, but it's based on the free software philosophy and is open source, you don't have to pay a cent for it if you don't want to. I'm not trying to get into an argument here, I'm just trying to make some points.

At the rate we're going with posts in this thread, I'll be a 68000 by the end of the day

 

[leet1]

Originally posted by besson3c
You're not getting my point. How is your Grandma going to know what partition scheme she should use? Sure the defaults will work fine, but this isn't novice territory.

If the default works fine, then why change it? Your right, I'm not getting your point, lol . You don't have to mess with it, as it will choose for you(automatic partition)

What if you select no, not knowing what a firewall is, and decide you want one later?

Go under configuration and enable it.

and this makes security better how (your previous argument)? Every modern OS has an admin-type user and regular users. One of Windows' biggest problems now is that people need to be administrators, yet administrators can *completely* mess up a computer.

Right, if you want security, you have to have a root password. So then you use a root password. When you use one, when you try to install things, it will ask for it. I guess it can be looked at as a problem.

Seems like the perfect thing for a school, since you have to have a root password to install anything, but you can download and save things without it.

Obviously, the Mac way is far simplier. If you haven't run into dependency problems, you obviously haven't used Linux much. No offense.

Your right, Mac is far more simplier, lol You have the grandma factor there

I've only been using it for a few months, so yea, I'm not a complete expert or anything on linux, hehe

I usually use www.linuxquestions.org if I have any questions, recommend it to anyone, great site

 

[leet1]

Originally posted by Nermal
Linux is not really a commercial OS. Sure, you can buy it, but it's based on the free software philosophy and is open source, you don't have to pay a cent for it if you don't want to. I'm not trying to get into an argument here, I'm just trying to make some points.

Your right, the whole thing about linux is it being free, which totally blew my mind when I first found out about it and used it.

"A complete operating system, for free?!?!?! Can't be true!"

^---me a while back, lol

At the rate we're going with posts in this thread, I'll be a 68000 by the end of the day

lol

 

[pjkelnhofer]

Can anyone point me in the direction of a good website or book about setting up my Mac (an iMac DV SE if that matters) about partition my drive for YDL and OS X?
I am very intrigued by Linux and want to learn more about it. I am about to put a new HD into my computer so I thought when I go to reinstall everything it would be the perfect time to partition the drive for Linux and OS X.

 

[daveL]

Originally posted by leet1
Just like the Mac, it will soon be adopter and games made for it I bet. Theres already a few big games usable on it right now. Unreal tournament, Unreal tournament 2003, half life, and a few more which I don't know about, heh.

You're talking x86 Linux, not PPC Linux.

 

[RelandR]

Originally posted by pjkelnhofer
Can anyone point me in the direction of a good website or book about setting up my Mac (an iMac DV SE if that matters) about partition my drive for YDL and OS X?
I am very intrigued by Linux and want to learn more about it. I am about to put a new HD into my computer so I thought when I go to reinstall everything it would be the perfect time to partition the drive for Linux and OS X.

I'm in about the same boat as you are and went first to mandrake only to discover that their store/customer service really suck (and no ppc explicit doc's) allthough the OS is well liked so a lot of ppl just download the iso's and deal with it.
...Which is not a recomendation for a newbie...

I'm currently checking out YellowDog and so far am impressed with the fact that they even have video-tutorials and support a much broader range of macs and it also comes with some 1000± apps

no, I don't work for them but they are deffinately getting my next $85 ('cause I want the shirt and the manual)

cheers

 

[ethernet76]

Originally posted by leet1
If the default works fine, then why change it? Your right, I'm not getting your point, lol . You don't have to mess with it, as it will choose for you(automatic partition)



Go under configuration and enable it.



Right, if you want security, you have to have a root password. So then you use a root password. When you use one, when you try to install things, it will ask for it. I guess it can be looked at as a problem.

Seems like the perfect thing for a school, since you have to have a root password to install anything, but you can download and save things without it.



Your right, Mac is far more simplier, lol You have the grandma factor there

I've only been using it for a few months, so yea, I'm not a complete expert or anything on linux, hehe

I usually use www.linuxquestions.org if I have any questions, recommend it to anyone, great site

First about the partitions. Why do I have to know how to optimize my partitioning? Can't the OS do it for me. Obviously I know I want my swap space to be on the outter most portion of the HD, but normal people are afraid. Here's what imagine, I phone call, "It says it wants to partition the drive, is that bad?"

I took a linux class, I think the best part is when the Linux expert that taught the class explained the various partition methods for optimal performance. Involved something like 5 different partitions of varying percentages based on what you did most.

The class ended with a group project. One group did Linux on laptops. The best part about that project was it doesn't work well with laptops.

Another group did SMB, it took them 30 minutes to run through a set up. In OS X it's one click under the sharing preference.

We did using a linux box as a router. We ended up downloading Firestarter after playing for 30 hours with IP tables and chains. In mac this is once again a single check box.

The last group tried to hook up a camera to a linux computer. After 30 minutes they, "weren't sure what went wrong this time." But they swore it worked once, at least. In mac this is plugging the device into the computer.

Linux isn't friendly. It can boot on a desktop once installed, but don't ask it to do much other than that if you are a novice.

 

[ShadowHunter]

Re: Re: Re: Linux on my Mac? What for?

Originally posted by leet1
Actually(not sure what linux is like on the Mac, but has to be pretty similar) but Linux is now all three of those things and then some lol. Fedora, redhat, Mandrake...these are as user friendly as you can get, hehe.

Best thing, look getting old? change it! switch windows managers or desktops.

Linux is no longer wishing

Sorry, but I just have to but in here!

I grant you, Linux has come leaps and bounds into a usable OS; but it still very from user friendly. I've tried Mandrake off and on over the past year or 2, and its still hard to use. Sure, it has a little "help, I don't know where the any key is" wizard for the installer, but if I deviate off that I'm screwed. I have a 3D Labs video card, and after spending about an hour trying to figure out where the heck I can install drivers, I found its not supported. Digging out an older video card, I had to go through the terminal (the GUI wouldn't launch) and look up commands on the net to get to the little video wizard.

After all that fiasco, I finally get into the OS. I find everything takes 20 extra clicks still to do the same then in OS X or Windows would take a few. Want to browse the network? Open Linneighborhood, find a path, login, mount it. In Windows, I click My Network Places, find the computer, and click a share. Simple, all one window. It's just unncessairily complicated still in Linux. If you're a techie with the extra time on your hands, all the power to ya. But PLZ quit trying to pass Linux as user-friendly now.

As far as UT goes, that's one game that works in Linux. I can list about 5000 that still don't (even with the time consuming WineX or whatever it is). UT has always been a geek game anyway, highly customizeable, so of course its going to come with Linux support.

 

[leet1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Linux on my Mac? What for?

Originally posted by ShadowHunter
UT has always been a geek game anyway, highly customizeable, so of course its going to come with Linux support.

geek game? lol...

 

[ShadowHunter]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Linux on my Mac? What for?

Originally posted by leet1
geek game? lol...

Every person that I have ever known to play it long-term is a techie type, simple as that.

It just appeals to that sort of people more then others....

 

[leet1]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Linux on my Mac? What for?

Originally posted by ShadowHunter
Every person that I have ever known to play it long-term is a techie type, simple as that.

It just appeals to that sort of people more then others....

What games don't? lol

 

[ShadowHunter]

Re: Linux on my Mac? What for?

Originally posted by MacAztec
I was looking into installing YDL on my mac. But, I was wondering, what would I do it for?

What can I do with linux? I have heard it is faster then OS X, is this true? Can I play games? Does it have a nice web browser, email program, and chat program built in?

Will it support my computer fully, and my graphics card? What about wireless k/b and mouse?

There is really no reason too. You can do almost any *nix task in OS X, if that's what you really want.

Let's be realistic here, Panther is quite speedy. Just how much faster can an OS go? Unless you strip Linux down so much that the only thing you can do is say "wow, it's fast", what's the point? You will be able to play a few games, the very small handful that support Linux (like UT). Try playing MOHAA, Command & Conquer Generals, or any DirectX game. You will get sketchy support from WineX but that's about it.

Depending on the distro, Mandrake will come with about 10 email programs and 20 chat programs, and a kajillion web browsers to choose from. At the end of the day, they all work.

You will have a lot of trouble getting wireless devices to work, and as far as support for your other hardware you're going to have to put a signifigant amount of research into other user's experience.

When it's all said and done, why bother? OS X is great, does more then Linux for day-to-day crap, and looks bootyful.

 

[besson3c]

If you want to try out KDE, install it through Fink within OS X.

There is little reason to repartition your machine just to "try out" Linux, when you already have access to all of the tools within OS X.

Admittedly, Linux is different than FreeBSD (which OS X is based on), but there is plenty of info and support out there about FreeBSD, which is a highly capable OS.

 

[leet1]

Completely forgot...don't know if anyone mentioned it. X86 linux has distro's then can run off a CD. If you were wanting to check it out and not go through partitioning, I bet they make a distro for ppc platform that runs off a CD.

Check out www.distrowatch.com to find out

 

[Independence]

I just thought I'd add something here just because I love Linux so much.

Linux is a very capable OS. I've been using it on and off over the past three years (just had to have Windows for some things). I've recently switched over to an all Linux system permanently. I'll admit that Linux is not for the Average Joe. Some distros like Redhat and Mandrake have all sorts of graphical tools to make it easier. I myself, however, use Slackware which is one of the more difficult flavors of Linux to master. But I'm learning. I consider it a hobby. And when I actually need to get work done, there's always OpenOffice.

I've decided to attach a scaled down image of my Linux desktop just to show some of the people in this thread what a KDE desktop looks like.