Lion, a toy for kiddies?

[Inconsequential]

Nope, but I can tell from a trailer if a movie is going to be good or bad. And Lion, to an old and experienced OSX user like me, smells definitely of rotten tomatoes!

Im also an 'old and experienced' OS X user along with my past OS's going back to 7.6.1!

And I think you and a number of other people are completely over-reacting.

I wish people would wait for WWDC before making outlandish claims of OMGDFZ Apple's messed OS X up!!!111.

Waste of time, bandwidth and money tbh.

 

[maflynn]

Im also an 'old and experienced' OS X user along with my past OS's going back to 7.6.1!

And I think you and a number of other people are completely over-reacting.

Same here, I've been a mac user since Mac SE/30 days and as I posted, I'm "under-reacting" not over reacting.

Apple really didn't show much off. Perhaps expectations would have been lowered had they done what they normally do. Preview the OS at WWDC, but they didn't They announced a back to mac event basically hyping a mac centric media event. They showed off a couple of features, nothing earth shattering and called it a day. I also don't believe there will be any other major feature in the OS. Jobs would want to show off all of the major stuff to generate excitement so what he showed is what we'll get.

I wish people would wait for WWDC before making outlandish claims of OMGDFZ Apple's messed OS X up!!!111.

Why? Apple is not going to do anything more at WWDC, in fact waiting until June to hand the OS to developers is too short of a time frame for a summer release, i.e., June = summer.

My outlandish claim is that apple has dropped the ball on this, they've been so focused on iToys that they have not dedicate time and energy towards OSX and what they have done is basically the iPadifcation of OSX.

Waste of time, bandwidth and money tbh.

Umm, This forum exists for such a discussion and it actually makes money for MR since people are visiting it. So are you saying we should not come here and discuss things of apple, because it uses time, bandwidth and resources

 

[Inconsequential]

Same here, I've been a mac user since Mac SE/30 days and as I posted, I'm "under-reacting" not over reacting.

Apple really didn't show much off. Perhaps expectations would have been lowered had they done what they normally do. Preview the OS at WWDC, but they didn't They announced a back to mac event basically hyping a mac centric media event. They showed off a couple of features, nothing earth shattering and called it a day. I also don't believe there will be any other major feature in the OS. Jobs would want to show off all of the major stuff to generate excitement so what he showed is what we'll get.



Why? Apple is not going to do anything more at WWDC, in fact waiting until June to hand the OS to developers is too short of a time frame for a summer release, i.e., June = summer.

My outlandish claim is that apple has dropped the ball on this, they've been so focused on iToys that they have not dedicate time and energy towards OSX and what they have done is basically the iPadifcation of OSX.


Umm, This forum exists for such a discussion and it actually makes money for MR since people are visiting it. So are you saying we should not come here and discuss things of apple, because it uses time, bandwidth and resources

Upper tier dev's almost certainly have early builds of 10.7 already, they would be under a massive NDA and hence why we don't know anything.

Your claim is Apple have dropped the ball on this when all you have to work on is 20/30 mins of 'Back to the Mac' presentation.
It's far too little information to even tell what 10.7 will finally become.

I watched it, I thought what they had in store was cool and that I'm waiting for them to release more info later next year.

 

[sushi]

As some have already said, let's wait until the WWDC to see what's under the hood.

IMHO, it's way to early at this point in time based upon a short presentation by SJ. Besides, at this point in time, Apple's not going to reveal anything that might be countered by Microsoft until much closer to Lion's release date.

 

[netdog]

$5 says that the OP stands on line for Lion on Launch Day 2011.

 

[maflynn]

Your claim is Apple have dropped the ball on this when all you have to work on is 20/30 mins of 'Back to the Mac' presentation.
It's far too little information to even tell what 10.7 will finally become.

I agree there's far too little information, but I believe that is all that 10.7 will have. Time will tell, but my opinion is apple will not have any other major feature in 10.7

 

[sushi]

It's far too little information to even tell what 10.7 will finally become.

True. But not surprised.

IMHO, it's too early to spill the beans as it were. Plus, it's always better to implement a feature than to promise and not deliver.

Time will tell, but my opinion is apple will not have any other major feature in 10.7

I would humbly disagree. Although, I'm at a loss to predict what major feature would be introduced. Just a gut feeling that some major feature will be introduced.

 

[reviewspin]

I think it's a bit premature to call Mac OS X Lion out of it yet. We barely even know the features yet. However merging iOS and Mac OS X wouldn't nec be a bad thing. Imagine working on a project (Keynote, Pages, whatever) and you forgot it at you home. No problem! If iOS and OS X are put into the cloud, you could easily get the project with your iOS device. This would make MobileMe fee worth it. Pay Apple $99 a year, you get 50 gb online storage and the abilty to pull files from your computer, to the cloud, to your iOS device. Only have 16GB iPhone? Didn't have enough room for all your fav. music and video content? No problem, with OS X Cloud features, you can swap it out on the go whenever you like. The first company to do this will make millions. Microsoft, surely, is working on it. If Apple isn't as well then Apple might be in some trouble. We'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[pfjellman]

i, too, was a littler underwhelmed with lion. as a developer and a "geek" i like stuff under the hood, performance improvements, fun new APIs, and interface enhancements. i've been using macs since the SE/30 with system 6. haven't owned a windows box since.

if you recall, more than once during the presentation, steve himself said something to the effect of, "i wish we had more time because there are tons of new features and enhancements planned, but we only have a short time so i'll show you the stuff we've got farthest along."

steve wouldn't lie to our faces like that. apple is all about under promising over delivering. it's in everything they do. buy an HP laptop that says "up to 4 hours battery" on the box and you'll be lucky to get 2.5-3 hours. buy an apple laptop that says "up to 5 hours of battery life" and you can probably get 7 or 8. this is just one example of dozens i can think of off the top of my head.

10.7 is going to be a nice update -- any changes and improvements are welcome after such a long wait between feature updates. don't get me wrong, snow leopard was an awesome update and i'm so glad they did it, but now it's time for something new.

10.7 is of course already floating out there in the wild - http://www.9to5mac.com/13304/10-7-growing-in-popularity-and-in-the-wild

of course they've already seeded to select developers, and will begin seeding to more and more devs as 2011 approaches. don't think that no one is using and testing 10.7 from now until WWDC (when apple officially "announces" the software to release whenever it does). this is how each release of OS X has happened in the past.

we'll just have to wait and see what's happening. but no, OS X is not becoming a closed system the mimics a toy more than a tool. the app store will be an option, not mandatory, and there will be some other great features in store as well. obfuscating the file system to the "average joe" will probably be a great move. however the root file system will always be accessible by those that need it and know how to do it. besides -- what would you rather have, a computer with a million great new geeky features, or a computer that you can get for your parents and not have them calling every other day to ask how to do something? as a developer and support guy i spend much of my time walking clients through "simple" processes. i would much rather have them use a computer that is easier to use so i can get on with my day and happily still do the geeky things i like to do. lion is moving towards that, and i have no problem with it.

(netdog, i'm with you - $5 says OP stands in line to buy lion)

 

[Lesser Evets]

I've been following the news on the new OSX version, 10.7 Lion, and I'm feeling sadly let down by the lack of news on technical advances for this version.

Instead, with Lion Apple is launching a massive marketing operation that apparently tries to sell me a bit of eye candy and lots of new apps that I don't need and I won't use for my work.

If you're working professionally with Mac computers, let me ask you this: do you feel (as I do) that Apple will let us power users down with this new OSX release?

Yes. Having followed the pre-release news and release of every version of OSX, this one is by far the most anemic and seemingly worthless release yet. Usually they will tout a set of new features that are quite amazing. This pre-release had essentially nothing professional or productive about it, as far as I am concerned.

Mac OSX releases have gotten horribly buggy in the past few years. Installing the OS causes so many problems for several months. With Lion I will wait about a year before thinking about buying it. Lion might be the first OSX that I skip completely, as I see it at this point.

So, I am in agreement with your opinion.

 

[kntgsp]

I realize Snow Leopard was an "under the hood" update. However, it seems everyone wants revolution with the upgrades. Lion is a step toward a unified OS/iOS that will be occuring over the next 5 or so years. You will hold in you hand the power of your desktop someday. Adapt or die (and in the meantime, if the upgrade isn't worth it to you, skip it).

What is worrying is that could mark an end to all app installations not approved by Apple. The App Store for OSX could just be the foot in the door. We have an entire department at work that would abandon the Mac platform en masse if they pushed any further with this iOS/OSX merger. We have enough people at work dumping iphones left and right for Android simply due to sideloading and the lack of any arbitrary "morals" pushed on them for what they can install. Last thing we need is for them to feel like Apple wants to do that with their desktops.

Also, what was with the supposed rumor that the the only programs that will be able to take advantage of the new "dashboard" (or whatever they're calling it, I forgot) will have to be applications installed through the OSX App Store? I haven't had time to follow up on Lion features, but did that end up being true or false?

 

[RT2020]

It's pretty pathetic actually....Apple had years to work on this. Looks like they spent a month dumbing down some features. That's all. Oh, you want me to buy a $2,000 laptop Steve? Not if it's as worthless as an ipad.

To those who say it's a sneak peak: Look at the history of all OSX releases. They always bring out the shock and awe features at this stage. The rest will be tweaks.

The Mac is dead... it's been dyeing for a couple of years now. The future of apple is dumbed-down iToys and fart apps... not powerful tools for creatives, professionals, etc.

 

[Cougarcat]

To those who say it's a sneak peak: Look at the history of all OSX releases. They always bring out the shock and awe features at this stage. The rest will be tweaks.

Not true. At the initial Leopard announcement, WWDC '06, they demoed Time Machine which was the only real "wow" feature.

It wasn't until the following summer that they revealed the UI improvements, rewritten finder, the fancy reflective dock and menu bar UI.

 

[Mackilroy]

What is worrying is that could mark an end to all app installations not approved by Apple. The App Store for OSX could just be the foot in the door. We have an entire department at work that would abandon the Mac platform en masse if they pushed any further with this iOS/OSX merger. Last thing we need is for them to feel like Apple wants to do that with their desktops.

I've seen some of the framework for the Mac App Store, and it looks less like the iOS App Store and more like Steam. Also, Apple said it was an option, not mandatory. That could change in the future, but there's little point in worrying about it now.

 

[MattInOz]

$5 says that the OP stands on line for Lion on Launch Day 2011.

$10 says he has a sleeping bag with him.

 

[drewyboy]

I do think we'll see some small stuff added into OSX, but what they showed off is basically a near feature complete OS.

I'm normally not this harsh but that has got to be the most foolish thing I've heard on this forum. What amazes me is your serious. This is what blows me away "what they showed off is basically a near feature complete OS". Take a minute, stop whatever your doing, and thing about that sentence. Correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying what we saw was basically all that's new in Lion? I may be misinterpreting but please let me know. There will be much more, give them some freak'n time to show it off at a place where ppl actually care to hear the details (WWDC).

 

[mar2194]

Not true. At the initial Leopard announcement, WWDC '06, they demoed Time Machine which was the only real "wow" feature.

It wasn't until the following summer that they revealed the UI improvements, rewritten finder, the fancy reflective dock and menu bar UI.

I am a physics student and my student job is in a NASA field office. Surprisingly my advisor uses TimeMachine all of the time to store the data on her computer (I was very surprised because TimeMachine just seems like baby crap, especially when most of the work she does is using proprietary code written by PostDocs in Fortran and C, using a feature like Time Machine that is so un-technical really surprised me).

But on to my real questions/concerns. Will this new implementation of OS X (Lion) allow equal ease of use for things that scientists/other academics use regularly (things like macports, ssh, sftp, telnet, etc) or will all of that be covered up by some baby-crap garbage GUI?

If so, Apple will be taking America into the past, in an interesting way.

 

[admanimal]

But on to my real questions/concerns. Will this new implementation of OS X (Lion) allow equal ease of use for things that scientists/other academics use regularly (things like macports, ssh, sftp, telnet, etc) or will all of that be covered up by some baby-crap garbage GUI?

If so, Apple will be taking America into the past, in an interesting way.

There has been absolutely no indication by Apple that they will be taking away any of these features.

 

[kuwisdelu]

I am a physics student and my student job is in a NASA field office. Surprisingly my advisor uses TimeMachine all of the time to store the data on her computer (I was very surprised because TimeMachine just seems like baby crap, especially when most of the work she does is using proprietary code written by PostDocs in Fortran and C, using a feature like Time Machine that is so un-technical really surprised me).

Why's that so surprising? Just because Time Machine is easy doesn't mean it's "baby crap." Is syntactic sugar only for lazy programmers?

But on to my real questions/concerns. Will this new implementation of OS X (Lion) allow equal ease of use for things that scientists/other academics use regularly (things like macports, ssh, sftp, telnet, etc) or will all of that be covered up by some baby-crap garbage GUI?

It already is covered up by some "baby-crap garbage GUI," because that's what most people use, and most people will never see anything else. But I don't doubt the functionality will still be there, as it has been from day one. Most people don't even know that Terminal exists, but it's been there all along, and I'm sure it will stay with us.

 

[RT2020]

I am a physics student and my student job is in a NASA field office. Surprisingly my advisor uses TimeMachine all of the time to store the data on her computer (I was very surprised because TimeMachine just seems like baby crap, especially when most of the work she does is using proprietary code written by PostDocs in Fortran and C, using a feature like Time Machine that is so un-technical really surprised me).

But on to my real questions/concerns. Will this new implementation of OS X (Lion) allow equal ease of use for things that scientists/other academics use regularly (things like macports, ssh, sftp, telnet, etc) or will all of that be covered up by some baby-crap garbage GUI?

If so, Apple will be taking America into the past, in an interesting way.

I don't think you will loose any of the features that already exist for power users, but you definitely won't get any new features for power users....or really many new features at all...

I think Apple said oh ****! we forgot about OSX development?!?! ... quick, get the two poor souls left on OSX development to shovel some **** ipad features together! BOOM! Introducing 10.7

 

[chrismacguy]

I don't think you will loose any of the features that already exist for power users, but you definitely won't get any new features for power users....or really many new features at all...

I think Apple said oh ****! we forgot about OSX development?!?! ... quick, get the two poor souls left on OSX development to shovel some **** ipad features together! BOOM! Introducing 10.7

I think its a lot more likely that Apple said "oh ****, weve only got totally awesome features, but their too big and not locked down for us to release - okay, you 3 in the corner go create some iPad integration we can flog while we work on deep technical improvements and Final Cut Pro 8" - or at least I hope they are, although so long as I have a Terminal and Final Cut Studio works without interference Ill be happy (you can do anything in the Terminal thank-goodness)

 

[marshallbedsaul]

judging already I see, sooooo not coool.
we never ever know the full details of a new thing from apple til a week before or during the opening. Just wait it out.

 

[szark]

Why? Apple is not going to do anything more at WWDC, in fact waiting until June to hand the OS to developers is too short of a time frame for a summer release, i.e., June = summer.

Actually, "summer" is the time frame between the Summer Solstice and the Fall Equinox. Apple could release Lion on September 22 and it would still be "summer." So developers would have over three whole months to code after WWDC!

 

[britboyj]

I'd like 10.7 to ship with a native 64-bit version of iLife '11 and the next version of iWork simultaneously.

I'd also REALLY like to see some more support for customizing gestures on the trackpads and magic mice. Also, finally some baked-in Blu-Ray support for those of us who need it would be great!

 

[MattInOz]

Actually, "summer" is the time frame between the Summer Solstice and the Fall Equinox. Apple could release Lion on September 22 and it would still be "summer." So developers would have over three whole months to code after WWDC!

Most new API's take what 6-24+months for developers to even get going with integrating in their product, depending on their own product roadmap is. I'm sure Apple has realized this and knows if don't intend to break anything, it doesn't really need a big testing window.

Seeing most of the beta-testers for more complex software aren't going to have the new OS till it's released then most of the issues aren't going to be found till it gets into the wild and run against real world use.

So no real need to give the Developers any longer than 3months because any longer isn't going to resolve any more compatibility bugs than automated testing will show up anyway. Nor is it going to produce any new super features that might be built on those API's.