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Lion vs W8

R

RJCP

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Jun 8, 2011
434
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So, now we pretty much have Lion and know everything about it and how Apple is slowly merging the best of OSX with the best of iOS, and now that Microsoft has released this gem of a video about W8 http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/01/...-8-tablet-prototypes/?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook

what are your thoughts of one vs. the other?

I see loads of people complaining about how OSX is becoming iOS, but to be honest, if this merge is going to happen in a near future (which I think is kind of inevitable), then Apple is once again doing it the right way and Microsoft not so much. From what I can see in the vídeo, W8 is basically W7 with a Windows Mobile 7 giant widget which looks pretty neat, true!, and will be nice for basic things like browsing the web and e-mailing.
But Microsoft wanting to release this as a universal system for both tablets and PC's is probably the dumbest thing ever: if Netbooks need to have a light version of W7 to run without a lot of lag, then how will a tablet deal with W7? It is quite ridiculous from that video that whenever you want to do document editing, the OS switches back to classical windows view, but even if you don't edit documents in your tablet, then the "classical windows 7" will always be there consuming spaces and resources.
On the other hand, if you have a touch screen desktop system, the new panels thing will be pretty cool, but once again, when you'll need to browse files and work, you'll be prompted with the classical windows view again and no need to tell how that view works with touch technology.

So, it all seems like an epic failure for me because users will never be able to enjoy the OS as one, because it's basically 2 OS's in one! On one hand, the PC's still don't have the trackpad multitouch technology developed to the Apple standard, which makes that panel interface really silly to control if you don't have a touch screen... You'll have to use a mouse/single touch trackpad which is quite ridiculous (think of controlling iOS with a mouse...), on the other hand, you'll need a mouse and a keyboard if you want to work on a productivity environment.

Geez... what a royal mess this will be.
 
RJCP said:
So, now we pretty much have Lion and know everything about it and how Apple is slowly merging the best of OSX with the best of iOS, and now that Microsoft has released this gem of a video about W8 http://www.engadget.com/2011/06/01/...-8-tablet-prototypes/?a_dgi=aolshare_facebook

what are your thoughts of one vs. the other?

I see loads of people complaining about how OSX is becoming iOS, but to be honest, if this merge is going to happen in a near future (which I think is kind of inevitable), then Apple is once again doing it the right way and Microsoft not so much. From what I can see in the vídeo, W8 is basically W7 with a Windows Mobile 7 giant widget which looks pretty neat, true!, and will be nice for basic things like browsing the web and e-mailing.
But Microsoft wanting to release this as a universal system for both tablets and PC's is probably the dumbest thing ever: if Netbooks need to have a light version of W7 to run without a lot of lag, then how will a tablet deal with W7? It is quite ridiculous from that video that whenever you want to do document editing, the OS switches back to classical windows view, but even if you don't edit documents in your tablet, then the "classical windows 7" will always be there consuming spaces and resources.
On the other hand, if you have a touch screen desktop system, the new panels thing will be pretty cool, but once again, when you'll need to browse files and work, you'll be prompted with the classical windows view again and no need to tell how that view works with touch technology.

So, it all seems like an epic failure for me because users will never be able to enjoy the OS as one, because it's basically 2 OS's in one! On one hand, the PC's still don't have the trackpad multitouch technology developed to the Apple standard, which makes that panel interface really silly to control if you don't have a touch screen... You'll have to use a mouse/single touch trackpad which is quite ridiculous (think of controlling iOS with a mouse...), on the other hand, you'll need a mouse and a keyboard if you want to work on a productivity environment.

Geez... what a royal mess this will be.
Click to expand...

We barely know anything about Windows 8 to render any kind of meaningful comparison.
 
*LTD* said:
We barely know anything about Windows 8 to render any kind of meaningful comparison.
Click to expand...

I think that video is enough to show it is not going in the right direction. Microsoft needs to reinvent Windows, instead of building on top of an almost 20 years old foundation (W95)... The basic problems are still there: registry, dll hell and the disorganized file system.
Sure, Apple has been building on top of OSX, but the thing with OSX is that it is 5 years younger than windows and Snow Leopard pretty much redid its architecture.

I don't get Microsoft. I really don't.

Nuckinfuts said:
Not to mention any hint of a positive outlook for Windows 8 will be flamed immediately. If the OP wants to have a real discussion, MacRumors isn't the place
Click to expand...

I really think it is possible to discuss it in a polite and objective way, but if you don't want to, just let the topic die. I do think it is a fair comparison because they're both merging systems in the sense they intend to unify the mobile device-personal computing experience.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
RJCP said:
I really think it is possible to discuss it in a polite and objective way, but if you don't want to, just let the topic die. I do think it is a fair comparison because they're both merging systems in the sense they intend to unify the mobile device-personal computing experience.
Click to expand...

I do agree that comparisons are difficult because not enough of Windows 8 has been shown. I think the important thing from an Apple point of view is that there will always be a duo of operating systems. There will be a mean and lean mobile version and then the mouse/kb driven desktop OS.

Apple seems to want to move more towards masking complexity further so rather than bolt on stuff that's geek approved by doesn't necessarily translate into more ease of use for the masses they are focused on delivering polish and making the OS even friendlier.

We'll have to see if Windows 8 is a step in that direction as well and how well each company manifests its vision.
 
You cannot compare an OS that is for intents and purposes released against another that not even in (presumably) alpha or is feature complete.
 
RJCP said:
Microsoft needs to reinvent Windows, instead of building on top of an almost 20 years old foundation (W95)...
Click to expand...
You don't understand what it's like to have 90% of the world entrenched in Windows applications.

A new OS would render those apps virtually obsolete.
 
Steve's Barber said:
You don't understand what it's like to have 90% of the world entrenched in Windows applications.

A new OS would render those apps virtually obsolete.
Click to expand...

Not to mention the slew of developers already dreading Windows 8 because of its tile interface which is HTML5/Javascript application development.

.NET developers hate change
 
For all of you who believe that w8 is at the wrong direction... Our problem is not Microsoft right now, but Apple's newest "ideas" that mess our beloved Mac OS X really badly! I like iOS and I like launch pad and all these fancy stuff. What I don't like is watching a great OS to get downgraded by missing some of its key features! There are many Apple blunders in Lion, but the worst of all is that they killed expose and spaces!!!! There are also many other issues, which are written in other threads. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that Lion is gonna be a big failure and I'm afraid about what OS will succeed Lion! :confused:
 
ixthy said:
For all of you who believe that w8 is at the wrong direction... Our problem is not Microsoft right now, but Apple's newest "ideas" that mess our beloved Mac OS X really badly! I like iOS and I like launch pad and all these fancy stuff. What I don't like is watching a great OS to get downgraded by missing some of its key features! There are many Apple blunders in Lion, but the worst of all is that they killed expose and spaces!!!! There are also many other issues, which are written in other threads. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that Lion is gonna be a big failure and I'm afraid about what OS will succeed Lion! :confused:
Click to expand...

They made Spaces accessible to the masses, power users who either got used to it or came over from Linux (yea Linux (GNOME) has had "spaces" since as long as I can remember) will hate the new spaces since it's designed for trackpad accessibility.

imo, Mission Control beats Expose since it encompasses window/app selection AND management, I couldn't manage anything from Expose.
 
From a couple of videos I've seen about W8, I have to say I quite like the idea and am excited about the development.

It is definitely (in my opinion) a nice idea.

Having said that, whether W8 ends up being developed along the similar lines or not, I will purchase the new OS once it comes out.

It is in line with my "sucker for the new" attitude and approach to.. well.. anything.

My willingness to obtain new things is only curbed by the amount of money I can spend...
 
ixthy said:
For all of you who believe that w8 is at the wrong direction... Our problem is not Microsoft right now, but Apple's newest "ideas" that mess our beloved Mac OS X really badly! I like iOS and I like launch pad and all these fancy stuff. What I don't like is watching a great OS to get downgraded by missing some of its key features! There are many Apple blunders in Lion, but the worst of all is that they killed expose and spaces!!!! There are also many other issues, which are written in other threads. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that Lion is gonna be a big failure and I'm afraid about what OS will succeed Lion! :confused:
Click to expand...

I personally think Lion will be a huge success. They have made a lot of features simple to use and since iOS is their most popular platform, newcomers to Mac will embrace it with open arms. The more people they can get to drop Windows and get into the Apple ecosystem, they will likely have more long term customers on both OS's, and more people to buy from iTunes and the app stores.
 
Oh, boy... where to start....

2011 - 1995 != 20

Windows 7 and (I suppose) 8 have more in common with Windows NT 4 than Windows 95.

OSX didn't appear out of thin air 10 years ago. Ever heard of BSD or NextStep?

Like OSX doesn't have dynamic library hell.... My /usr/local/ says otherwise. Or am I just stupid to manage my development environment with something like MacPorts or Homebrew. You know why everyone does it? Because Apple doesn't update underlying tools... Even after 8 updates, they ship Snow Leopard with Ruby 1.8.7, Python 2.6 and so on and so forth. Or... silly question to Apple, can we have modern OpenGL support and video drivers that match Windows performance, please? (I just had to mention that :))

OSX likes to waste your disk space just as much as Windows does. Just because you detele some *.app from /Applications, it doesn't mean everything is good and everything's gone. Unless you take care of your /Library and ~/Library, OSX accumulates huge number of dead bodies... err. files.

I actually happen to think HTML5 and Javascript are steps in the right direction as long as Microsoft doesn't (beep) it up as they enjoy doing so. I am sure ton of developers would rejoice the day jQuery, MooTools, etc will become obsolete. Too bad it probably won't happen any time soon. First of all, modern Javascript JIT compiler implementations are insanely fast and combination of HTML5 and JS allows for developers to do really rapid cross-platform development. And nothing's bad is going to happen to all those unhappy .NET developers who are going to learn something new.

So, seriously, I am not sure what's up with the thread like this. If you like OSX, just enjoy using it. However, it sounds like somebody feels insecure for no reason. It's ok. Go find an article about Mac share growth in Q2 2011 and shrinking PC market. It'll calm you down :)
 
Well, let's wait till Microsoft launches the public beta and Apple releases Lion. Then we'll be able to do a very good comparison,:)
 
RJCP said:
But Microsoft wanting to release this as a universal system for both tablets and PC's is probably the dumbest thing ever .....

So, it all seems like an epic failure for me because users will never be able to enjoy the OS as one, because it's basically 2 OS's in one!

Geez... what a royal mess this will be.
Click to expand...

I don't understand the point you are trying to make here. I could have sworn you were talking about apple making an universal o.s. By turning ios into osx by merging the two ino one.

How is what m$ is doing inferior to what apple is doing? Both seek to slap that gimmicky touch based fluff upon their professional desktop operating systems. Both seek to differentiate the desktop from the filesystem by making the f.s. An invisible layer.

But i agree .... Epic failure. Both lion and possibly w8. What speaks for w8 over lion is that it is said in w8 this phone7 layer is optional, whereas in lion i am forced to use that iOS based fluffiness. There is no off-switch.
 
Windows 8 is allegedly going to be an entire revamp. It's very much in beta right now and is no where near complete.

As for which operating system is the best the answer is neither. OSX has plenty of benefits but just as many faults. Microsoft Windows has a lot of flexibility and I could not live without it, however its flexibility can be its downfall at times (causing crashes). While OSX may appear more "stable" than Windows (at least this is the argument most apple-enthusiasts use) the reason is because OSX keeps tight control over what you can and can't do with it.

If you are using a computer to do a simple, specific task such as edit videos, photographs, blogging or checking email and you don't want any hassle then OSX is for you.

However if you are looking for real control over your operating system, the ability to change (or in some cases mess up) everything, utilize a lot of dev tools and run a business desktop Microsoft Windows is for you. I have never experienced a Windows crash I couldn't fix or that wasn't my fault and I've been using it since 3.1. Likewise I've been using Apple computers for school, and prior to that at family member's homes since 1996.

Apple and Windows both look very similar to their 1990s counterparts. Both of them. There is no clear cut "so-and-so hasn't evolved yet" because they both pay homage to their originals.

The power user uses Windows. The really "geeky" advanced tech user uses some form of terminal Linux (linux without the interface). The people who really just want to get organized and get off the computer when they are done use Apple.

Me? I use all three. I have a Linux laptop, a Windows 7 desktop (custom built by myself), and a coming Macbook Pro 13.3" laptop. I used various Macs in school for years. I love and hate OSX because it is a very, very limited operating system. The problem is that when you try to make something more flexible it will naturally become less stable (stretching yourself thin, so to speak). OSX is reliable, but its control-freak hold over all of its features drive me nuts at times. Windows is reliable if you are willing to put a lot of time into it and Linux is just good to stay away from if you don't already know about it.

As for Windows 8 itself Microsoft needs to get a head start into the Tablet market. Their focus is pretty obvious and they have no need to worry about the desktop stuff until much later. I look forward to using the beta of it.

I also look forward to OSX.

There is no "best".
 
Windows with a dose of "Meh" on top

This is still windows with a half baked touch UI thrown on top.

All they have done is incorporated windows phone elements into their desktop OS.

He even mentioned "slate" - did anyone else pick up on that??? An iPad contender... LOL

He also mentioned that it will work with both keyboard / mouse and touch based PC's but unless Microsoft releases some kind of Magic Trackpad to go with this OS and multitouch gestures I fail to see how a desktop PC can make any use of all of the new UI functionality.

I am sure that Apple has the Magic trackpad gesture based stuff all locked down by patents galore so good luck to them.
 
stellardream said:
....

Like OSX doesn't have dynamic library hell.... My /usr/local/ says otherwise. Or am I just stupid to manage my development environment with something like MacPorts or Homebrew. ...
Click to expand...
Most definitely. MacPorts and Fink are ways to manage the installation of standard Unix/Linux applications on the Mac. Novices like my grandmother and you need never use either for their regular MacOS X applications.
 
Windows 8 looks exactly like WP7.. which is worse than bring iOS features on Mac OS X Lion.. :rolleyes:
 
Nuckinfuts said:
They made Spaces accessible to the masses, power users who either got used to it or came over from Linux (yea Linux (GNOME) has had "spaces" since as long as I can remember) will hate the new spaces since it's designed for trackpad accessibility.

imo, Mission Control beats Expose since it encompasses window/app selection AND management, I couldn't manage anything from Expose.
Click to expand...

Really? I saw threads where users ask whether they can create an additional space!!! Finding the plus sign that is hiding to the top right corner of your screen is at least counterintuitive. On the other hand my mother could very easily use spaces on my mbp. Either by using active corners, or by using the top toolbar where you see the number of your desktop. But most of all the grid view of SL is awesome!!!! There you truly can see all the spaces with all of their contents and it also supports expose. You can see all your open windows labeled on the grid!!!! In Lion you can't do any of these actions. Hell you can't even see all of your spaces in mission control, because they don't fit on their line. The only pros of Lion against SL are:
1. Multitouch controls... Which is good, but not the best thing to do when you have several desktops and open full screen apps... I don't think that swapping several times to get to the app, or the desktop of your choice is convenient!
2. Desktop autoarrange, although some users may hate it! But if you turn it of you just can't rearrange your desktops, whereas spaces' positions can be changed...
3. Grouping of open windows per app. This is quite good, specially because we can transfer piles of open windows that belong to the same app, but it messes true expose really bad. We use expose to be able to see open windows with labels on them, not an unknown pile of folded windows that can't be unfolded in any way! On the other hand spaces in SL doesn't provide per app grouping of windows in such a manner, but it gives you the freedom to arrange freely all of your windows in spaces. Then you can move them as a group, by moving the whole space. Of cource you can see per app grouping of windows if you hold click on the dock icon of your app, through expose!

Finally I'm not saying that I don't like iOS. I just don't like that apple kills mac! Apple could be still using SL's spaces with mission control together! So everybody could use what likes best! And I also don't like to watch great Mac apps to be killed (frontrow, isync), unless they replace them with something better! Finally fullscreen apps implementation is still buggy, which is not good for acquiring the "masses" to the apple ecosystem!
 
I think it will be best to wait until Microsoft actually release a GM of Windows 8 before we compare.
 
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