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Liquid Cooling and Cooligy

Thanks Aiden... I was about to post the same reply.

army_guy,
Just because water is deionized does not make it non-conductive. Water by its very nature as a polar molecule and will carry electricity no matter what you do to it. I really have no idea where you're going with this but I'm assuming you've just been told these untruths by others. This seems to apply to your beliefs about Xeon MP systems and Intel memory addressing too.
 
On a completly un-related fact...

Pure water does NOT conduct electricity Contrary to popular opinion... becuase there is nothing in pure water that electrons can travel through hydrogen and oxygen are both gasses so if Apple were to have a pure water cooled powerbook the water leakage would be no problem at all besides just a annoyance and a way of cleaning out any hidden dust ...


P.S. Holy Carp my sig sucks lol
 
De-ionised water is not conductive enough (no ions) to pose a threat in a liquid cooled PC, ive tried and tested it on running hardware. If its 1-2+ years in a system then its conductive thats why you have to change it every few months. Also there are problems whens wixing alluminium and copper this can wreck havok with the water unless youre using some additive/anti-corrosion/anti-freeze mixture. Ask any liquid cooling person or specialist. I can refer you to Swiftech, DangerDen, Asustech, DTeck, Legris and Aquacomputer for info regarding anything you want to know.
 
AidenShaw said:
The Pentium4/Xeon support 64 GiB of RAM, they are not limited to 4 GiB.
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I remember Carmack mentioning this (and critisising INTEL on the technique they use) and why 64-bit machines would bring more realistic games.
 
AidenShaw said:
The Pentium4/Xeon support 64 GiB of RAM, they are not limited to 4 GiB.
Click to expand...

The xeon limit is 4GB the only way to use more is to use memory hacks/tricks or whatever they call it "Large Address Extension" which you would then need a very specific version of windows (W2k Data Center) or a specific linux distribution. What ever the trick is, its cumbersome and your still limited to 4GB threads/per CPU. The application also HAS to support this aswell, if it doesnt allthough the OS can address more than 4GB the application will not.
 
shyataroo said:
Pure water does NOT conduct electricity Contrary to popular opinion... becuase there is nothing in pure water that electrons can travel through hydrogen and oxygen are both gasses so if Apple were to have a pure water cooled powerbook the water leakage would be no problem at all besides just a annoyance and a way of cleaning out any hidden dust ...
Click to expand...

But due to the fact that water is such a good solvent, as soon as it touches and dust, or whatever it will become a couductant.
 
I wonder if they might be thinking about adding Cooligy to the Power Mac also? It certainly would end the noise problem.
 
army_guy said:
The xeon limit is 4GB the only way to use more is to use memory hacks/tricks or whatever they call it "Large Address Extension" which you would then need a very specific version of windows (W2k Data Center) or a specific linux distribution. What ever the trick is, its cumbersome and your still limited to 4GB threads/per CPU.
Click to expand...


Hmmm. Exactly like OS X, right? Only 4 GiB per process, but you can have more per system.

OS X can't give a process more than 4 GiB, even though the G5 can have up to 16 GiB.

32-bit Windows is exactly the same - the system can have up to 64 GiB, but each process is limited to 4 GiB.

You get so excited, army_boy, but OS X and 32-bit Windows have exactly the same capabilities on a system with more than 4 GiB. And who cares if only some of the server versions of Windows have the PAE support? Sometimes I've run datacenter server on my laptop if I needed the features in it. (Isn't there both a workstation and server version of OS X? Again, doesn't this make Windows and OS X more alike than different?)

Of course, if you are running on a 64-bit IA64 or AMD64 CPU, you can run 64-bit Windows and use as much memory per process as you have. But you don't have the 64-bit option with a G5 and OS X - only 32-bits regardless of the RAM in the system.
 
davetrow1997 said:
Arn, you must be a physician...
True, true, unrelated, indeed...
If you aren't, what other profession talks like that, I'm interested to know?
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Yes, arn is a physician. He just passed his boards in November. His speciality is a Nephrologist, treatment of the Kidney.
 
shyataroo said:
Pure water does NOT conduct electricity Contrary to popular opinion... becuase there is nothing in pure water that electrons can travel through hydrogen and oxygen are both gasses so if Apple were to have a pure water cooled powerbook the water leakage would be no problem at all besides just a annoyance and a way of cleaning out any hidden dust ...
Click to expand...


Wrong, wrong, wrong... A) Gasses can conduct electricity-- even noble gasses! B) Water is conductive. The Bohrs model is incorrect, if that's all you've been exposed to. Electron shell jumping occurs and water by it's very nature is polar. When you have water, you actually have OH- and H+ with a weak hydrogen bond between the two. When electricity passes through the water, the hydrogen is "completed" and (actually it's a multiple stage process and the OH- molecule breaks, H+attaches to H-, and due to the structure of O, you end up with O2 and H2; see the Heisenberg Uncertanity Principle for electron movement) However, the electron transfer is exactly what conduction is about, hence water conducts electricity. This "pure" water nonsense is just sily because both physicists and chemists/chemical engineers construct all equations using an assumption of "pure" water-- if it wasn't "pure" any volitaile molecules would have to be diagrammed.
 
Ive been using liquid cooling for 4-5 years and not once have I destoryed H/W as a result of using de-ionised water, its not conductive period. Unless you fail to change the coolant for several months or years then it becomes conductive enough to destroy electrical components.
 
wdlove said:
Yes, arn is a physician. He just passed his boards in November. His speciality is a Nephrologist, treatment of the Kidney.
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Thanks for the info... I am also a physician, that's why I picked up on the choice of words... I am in my internal medicine residency. Actually, there was a recent article in the NEJM (1 Jan 04) regarding thymoma and pure erythroid aplasia, titled True, True, and Related.

Funny...
 
davetrow1997 said:
Thanks for the info... I am also a physician, that's why I picked up on the choice of words... I am in my internal medicine residency. Actually, there was a recent article in the NEJM (1 Jan 04) regarding thymoma and pure erythroid aplasia, titled True, True, and Related.

Funny...
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Here's an attachment of the Computed Tomography scan demonstrating the anterior mediastinal mass. ;o)
 

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army_guy said:
Ive been using liquid cooling for 4-5 years and not once have I destoryed H/W as a result of using de-ionised water, its not conductive period. Unless you fail to change the coolant for several months or years then it becomes conductive enough to destroy electrical components.
Click to expand...

I guess I'll try one last time...

DI water in an ultrapure state is still conductive. It measures a conductivity of 0.1 microsiemen. Deionization is the same as reverse osmosis and is just a means to purify water. However, and this is a big however, the second DI water, even in an ultrapure state, meets the air (in essence outside of a vacuum) carbon dioxide dissolves into the water. The dissolved CO2 increases the already conductive H2O dramatically. The idea of having water (any water) touching exposed (non-insulated) electronics and not doing damage is ridiculous.

If you don't buy this, then I guess the only other means of proof is by experiment. How about filling a glass tank (glass as an insulator and to prevent grounding principles) with DI water and having someone stand in it while I put positive and negative leads into it... any volunteers (and I really hope no one jumps at this kind of opportunity)
:rolleyes:
 
legion said:
I guess I'll try one last time...

DI water in an ultrapure state is still conductive. It measures a conductivity of 0.1 microsiemen. Deionization is the same as reverse osmosis and is just a means to purify water. However, and this is a big however, the second DI water, even in an ultrapure state, meets the air (in essence outside of a vacuum) carbon dioxide dissolves into the water. The dissolved CO2 increases the already conductive H2O dramatically. The idea of having water (any water) touching exposed (non-insulated) electronics and not doing damage is ridiculous.

If you don't buy this, then I guess the only other means of proof is by experiment. How about filling a glass tank (glass as an insulator and to prevent grounding principles) with DI water and having someone stand in it while I put positive and negative leads into it... any volunteers (and I really hope no one jumps at this kind of opportunity)
:rolleyes:
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Actually all polar molecules are self ionising and are therefore conductive. The extent of ionisation depends on the polarity of the molecule. Water is a weak electrolyte. It isn't the best conductor but it does conduct.

Furthermore, deionised water actually leaches out metal cations from alloys and is a bugger to contain. Even in things like PVC you get leaching issues. You pretty much have to treat the water in most cases and make the solution slightly basic.
 
Telomar said:
Actually all polar molecules are self ionising and are therefore conductive. The extent of ionisation depends on the polarity of the molecule. Water is a weak electrolyte. It isn't the best conductor but it does conduct.
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I already mentioned this in an earlier post in reply to army_guy's claims :) , however since it didn't seem to impress upon him, I was going with a quantitative post on the conductivity measurements.
 
legion said:
I already mentioned this in an earlier post in reply to army_guy's claims :) , however since it didn't seem to impress upon him, I was going with a quantitative post on the conductivity measurements.
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Oops. It was 3 am and I was a bit too tired to read some of the earlier stuff :eek:
 
Cooligy co-founder on TSS tonight

http://www.techtv.com/screensavers/shownotes/story/0,24330,3626775,00.html
(no video on web site yet aparently)
Kenneth Goodson, Stanford professor and Cooligy co-founder, demonstrates a completely silent PC water-cooling pump.
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Not only completely silent, but no moving parts either. As discussed earlier in this thread, they're using ionization to move coolant through the system.

They also show something he called a "Microchanel Collector", which is barely bigger than the silicon chip it is supposed to cool, taking the place of today's huge water blocks and/or heat sinks.

Pretty cool stuff - take a look at www.cooligy.com
 
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