what makes the Lisa so much more desireable, then say... oh, i don't know... the 3 apple IIe's i have in my basement... (they seem to sell for like $50 on ebay... blah)
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Lisa/IIe question
- Thread starter gwuMACaddict
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gwuMACaddict said:
The Lisa was the first commerically available machine with a graphical user interface (GUI). Xerox had the Alto internally and a few thousand were produced, but it was never a commercial machine. The Lisa came about after the legendary visit Steve Jobs and crew paid to the Xerox PARC (Palo Alto Research Center). The Lisa's desktop has many innovations on its own, the result of Apple's ingenuity, not simply being a rip-off of the Alto's Smalltalk GUI environment.
The original Lisa (with dual 5.25" floppy drives) can fetch from $5,000 to $15,000 on eBay. I believe less than 30,000 were produced. The Lisa 2 is worth far less, many more having been rolled out the door, and it not being "the first." I have just paid $1,100 for a near-mint, full Lisa 2 system that is on its way to me presently.
As far as the IIe, well - it's not so landmark a machine. The Apple I is worth far more than the Lisa as far less were produced and as it was the first usable "home computer" that used a keyboard and a proper display. And it was within reach of the avid consumer - $666 was the list price.
After the Apple I came the Apple ][, of which thousands and thousands were produced. Then came the Apple ][+. Later came the improved Apple IIe. There are millions of Apple IIe's out there.
The $50 that you cite from eBay auctions for IIe's would seem on the high end of price for a lone IIe unit. There is simply no remote comparison between the value of a IIe and a Lisa to the collector.
blakespot
excellent explanation blakespot
i knew the IIe's weren't a big deal, just using them as a reference. didn't know anything about the lisa though
i knew the IIe's weren't a big deal, just using them as a reference. didn't know anything about the lisa though
gwuMACaddict said:
Indeed, $666.66, I believe. The mark of the beast, etc.
Of course if you had lots of IIe's...
http://www.bytecellar.com/archives/000046.php
blakespot
blakespot said:
On the contrary, the //e is one of the great landmark machines for Apple. But you are correct that it is not of much interest to collectors due to it's ubiquity.
Computer collecting is in its infancy, but I imagine in another 40 years when I'm an old geezer it will be a mature and lucrative hobby. I guess I'll have to hang on to my old Macs.
Lord Blackadder said:On the contrary, the //e is one of the great landmark machines for Apple. But you are correct that it is not of much interest to collectors due to it's ubiquity.
Computer collecting is in its infancy, but I imagine in another 40 years when I'm an old geezer it will be a mature and lucrative hobby. I guess I'll have to hang on to my old Macs.
Well, I would say that the Apple ][ is the "landmark" machine in the series. It added notable capability to the Apple I and was setup for mass production. It is the computer that got Apple "on its way." The ][+ was a small improvement over the ][ and the IIe came along and really finessed the ][ line, with more built in and more expansion capability for down the road. But by the time the IIe came out, hundreds of thousands if not millions of ]['s and ][+'s had been sold.
In these later II machines, I'd call the //c more of a "landmark" unit given the unprecedented integration that it represented, not to mention its extraordinary industrial design, allowing it to present a most non-threatening computing experience for the user.
This is a list in descending order of significance or "landmark" nature of the II line by my reckoning:
Apple ][
Apple //c
Apple IIe
Apple IIgs
Apple ][+
Apple IIe enhanced
Apple //c+
blakespot
blakespot said:
True. The //c really had a visual quality that made it less of a gadget and more of a stylish appliance, especially with the LCD display. The ][+, IIe et al. were functional, affordable and expandable, but they did not have all the superior design characteristics that would later be a hallmark of Apple products.
Still, for me the IIe is the definitive early Apple computer, a machine that recalls Apple's past leadership of the PC market, and introduced me to the world of computers. I still have two.
EDIT: I forgot about all the naming subtleties involving early Apples! ][, II, //
Lord Blackadder said:
My first II was a //c, which I got in the spring of '84, right after it was introduced. I went to the dealer w/ my parents (I was jus turning 12) to get the IIe but they were out of stock and were not going to get any more for 10 days or so. So I got the //c and matching screen.
http://www.blakespot.com/list/images/appleIIc.jpg
Glad I did. I ultimately sold it for an Amiga 1000.
http://www.blakespot.com/list/images/a1000.jpg
As far as II's go, in my time I've had: that //c, Laser 2000 (][+ clone) IIe, IIgs, Laser 128 (//c clone), IIe, //c+, IIgs, and //c - obviously some repeats. The IIgs is my "main II" right now, at home in my comp room and the //c is about to be brought in here to the office.
blakespot
War against Lisa 1
*Apple II*
Collectors sometime forget that the Apple II (like the Apple 1) was sold in a kit form, for a few months in 1977-78.
The kit, with red manual, ranks well above the Apple II computer in value.
* Lisa *
The Lisa 1's known to exist rival Apple 1, total units sold. The Lisa 1 was revamped after only 6,800 machines were sold. Because of a design defect in the twiggy drives, Apple tried its best to eradicate all Lisa 1's on the planet.
1) First, and most sucessfully, with the FREE upgrade that consisted of new 3.5 floppy, ROMs, diskettes (to replace the useless serialized twigs), an adapter for the cable and last but not least, your friendly Apple dealer would take the Lisa 1 bezel
2) A 2500 paid upgrade to a Lisa 2, complete with new board and 10mb HD
3) Mac XL Offer number three for the Lisa 1 owner. "Make your Lisa 1 act like a mac with software emulation!"
4) If any Lisa 1's remained the kids could always turn them in for a $1499 Mac Plus before heading off to college. (Offer #4)
These offers lead the editors of MacWorld magazine to call the upgrade policy questionable. It was simply a war against Lisa 1 in my opionion.
"We're prepared to live with Lisa for the next 10 years" - Steve Jobs.
NOT, said John Scully!
*Apple II*
Collectors sometime forget that the Apple II (like the Apple 1) was sold in a kit form, for a few months in 1977-78.
The kit, with red manual, ranks well above the Apple II computer in value.
* Lisa *
The Lisa 1's known to exist rival Apple 1, total units sold. The Lisa 1 was revamped after only 6,800 machines were sold. Because of a design defect in the twiggy drives, Apple tried its best to eradicate all Lisa 1's on the planet.
1) First, and most sucessfully, with the FREE upgrade that consisted of new 3.5 floppy, ROMs, diskettes (to replace the useless serialized twigs), an adapter for the cable and last but not least, your friendly Apple dealer would take the Lisa 1 bezel
2) A 2500 paid upgrade to a Lisa 2, complete with new board and 10mb HD
3) Mac XL Offer number three for the Lisa 1 owner. "Make your Lisa 1 act like a mac with software emulation!"
4) If any Lisa 1's remained the kids could always turn them in for a $1499 Mac Plus before heading off to college. (Offer #4)
These offers lead the editors of MacWorld magazine to call the upgrade policy questionable. It was simply a war against Lisa 1 in my opionion.
"We're prepared to live with Lisa for the next 10 years" - Steve Jobs.
NOT, said John Scully!
blakespot said:
It looks terrible!
You had better Throw it away, or better yet, send it to me in Minnesota to..... um... Recycle
Awesome pice to add to anyones collection, enjoy
blakespot said:
Nice.
I don't have the time to collect Macs anymore, but I think I will get myself a compact mac before they get too hard to find. Probably an SE/30 if I can, but a Plus or 512k would be nice.
[/QUOTE]
I had a Laser 128, too! It was our first computer and my dad bought it for me in August 1986 right before 9th grade. It had that green screen monitor, an external drive and a Citizen 120D dot matrix printer. I loved it and bought WordPerfect so I could type all my papers for high school with it. I used it all the way up until late January 1993 when my college roommate took me to the Mac lab. It's still at my parent's house somewhere.
I should dig it out and play Castle Wolfenstein with the stick figure people. Or, even better, Oregon Trail!!! That was the first game I ever played when our school got the ][+ when I was in 5th grade. We could sign up for 30-minute sessions and it was awesome.
I should dig it out and play Castle Wolfenstein with the stick figure people. Or, even better, Oregon Trail!!! That was the first game I ever played when our school got the ][+ when I was in 5th grade. We could sign up for 30-minute sessions and it was awesome.