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This is a valid concern but reveals the assumption that institutions are better at raising kids than their parents are. Unfortunately there are many instances when a good teacher is a better influence on a kid than their parents. But to conclude from this that school choice would worsen education is a lie. Parent know how to pick better products and services, even if they are bad parents. They can pick iPhone over android. They can go see a good movie instead of a bad one. They want their children to learn as to have strong moral character, even I'd they are too inept to do it themselves.

More importantly, there are enough involved and caring parents which will weed out the bad teachers and bad schools, and raising up the good ones. The bad parents will benefit from the involved parents and will actually empower bad parents to become more involved with their kids education. Ask any teacher - a loving and involved family is the biggest determinant in school success.

By disempowering parents we are not doing them any favors. Its the whole elitest Nanny state philosophy.

Not better at raising children, but educating them? Yeah, I do believe that, generally speaking, someone who receives at least four years of specialized training in a subject is better qualified to analyze that field than an average consumer. Though I know my driving habits better than the engineers at Ford, Honda or Chevy, I trust them to be better at figuring out how to make a safe, reliable car than I would be.

(And no, I don't blindly believe all teachers are good teachers, so don't pigeonhole me as a teacher union apologist. And yes, I recognize that there are exceptions to all general statements.)

I know of an ongoing situation where a parent has gone through four advocates trying to get someone to affirm her belief that her child is a "special ed" child with an emotional disorder. All of the impartial advocates have told the mother that the child doesn't meet the criteria, yet the mother keeps pushing the issue. It's nearly Munchhausens-esque.

Our culture has reached a point where if a child can't in some way be labeled "exceptional" or "special" — even as being specially challenged — parents don't know what to do. If you raise an "average" kid these days who doesn't need some sort of support but who isn't brilliant, the parents almost feel like a failure. These days, it seems like a parent would rather have a medical excuse why a child isn't brilliant than be content with an ordinary, average child.
 
Don't get me wrong, this is great for the future of our society...

Here's my worry. Let's say you get an iPad in the hands of every kid in the class... In a perfect world they are all sitting quietly and reading their text books... But that's not what's going to happen. Kids will be watching YouTube, playing games, showing each other naked pictures, etc... All while the teacher is at the front of the class. How do you monitor the use appropriately?
There are controls to restrict apps and how they work through the iPhone/iPad Configuration Utility. That's if technicians servicing the iPad's know how about the utility and setup a basic web server so that the iPad's can collect different profiles etc.

I know in my previous job (here in the UK), the school was purchasing 15 iPad's for younger students in the Primary school as a trial.

I can see this work if the independant publishers have time to compile their existng textbooks into the iBooks format. Again, the possibilities are endless outside of the School market.
 
I went to college for 4 years...majored in Computer Science with Business Applications. I had lots of computer books, science, and math. Yes, each was well over 300 pages long. Yes, some were heavy...but NONE were some kind of 1200 page monster.

In college, I would attend a few classes each day (usually 3-4) and most had at least 1 hour or more between classes...so I did not need to carry around all 3-4 books every day.

Yes, there were times I had to carry a few books (maybe I was going to the library to study between classes)...but again, backpacks (not just for books you know...billions of hikers use them) are designed to not only CARRY 40+ pounds of material, but to make that weight COMFORTABLE while walking.

I'm not a body builder.

Is size/weight a selling point? Yes. But it's a bit of a stretch. Weight/size is ALWAYS a selling point for any product sold in the world, though. I'm more interested in how/why this new model would be adopted.

I'm glad ya'll only used lightweight paper backs in computer science. Over here in my BSN program and now in my family nurse practitioner program 2000 page, 8 pound books are the norm.
 
It's not like the competition did not have a chance. Apple struck first, now the "copy cats" are caught in an endless game of "catch up."

Correct.

How long for google and Sam.idev.clone.weasel.sung before they "innovate" with bad clone of all things education from apple?
 
Due to poor tax returns in many states due to the recession, many states are now closing many school because of no money. This only worsens the state that our schools are in. No wonder we can not compete globally!

Say what? We can't compete globally in education? Really? We don't have the best university system in the world?
 
I'm glad ya'll only used lightweight paper backs in computer science. Over here in my BSN program and now in my family nurse practitioner program 2000 page, 8 pound books are the norm.

Programming languages change much more frequently. More frequent updates require cheaper manufacturing.

My ChemE books are somewhere between 400 and 1000 on average.
 
Exactly. The books will not be transferable to another student.

The publishers will not go from a one-time purchase of $75 to a one time purchase of $15 (our business model will just not allow it). We will however go for a 5-time purchase of $15.

Of course the book will be transferable to another student. They just won't be *bought* by the student.

The *school* will buy/distribute an iPad to each student (much like they do with the textbooks today). The school will buy enough copies of the e-textbooks for their students and will make sure that the iPad given to a student has the correct texts on it.

Basic math:
Typical K-12 textbook cost: $70-125
Typical class-load for a single student: 6-8 classes
Total cost for books for one student: $420-1000

Cost of a 16GB wi-fi iPad: $499
Cost of 6-8 e-textbooks @ $15 each: 90-120
Total cost of iPad + ebooks: $514-619
On the cheap end, the book to iPad changeover *may* not be worth it if the ebooks are identical to the texts the replace. On the expensive end, it's kind of a no-brainer.

AP Bio is not a K-12 book. It is a college text book.

Looking at my catalog right now, the most expensive K-12 book I see is around $120.

Really? You take AP Bio in *college*? No. You take AP Bio in high school (if you're doing well enough to qualify).

They are purchases. Just not transferable to another iPad.

They don't have to be transferable to another iPad, to be transferable to another student. (Just transfer the iPad.) But then, they *will* be transferable to another iPad (owned by, and on the same account as, the school).

On the other hand, by the time you get up to college, this is an obvious no-brainer. My first term of my first year in college set me back over $400 in books. My last term (done part time) only cost me $380 due to having fewer, but more expensive books. Over the course of my college career, having an iPad and eBooks would have saved me a couple grand easily based on the numbers we're seeing here.

And selling the books back to the college book store? That usually got me less than $100 on over $500 worth of books. One year, *saved* $40 buying used books, and got less than $40 selling them back. (One of them hadn't even been unwrapped.)
 
Why are you trying to turn this discussion into one about competition. The only "competition" here is the printed word vs Apple's iBooks. Not a single person has brought up another manufacture or OS.

Talk about left field...

Easy.

1. Very soon copy cats will "innovate" from apple educational first.
2. Folks like you and others will come out of the woods telling us that "competition is good" trying to frame apple in the same garbage that the "competition" puts out as a "me-too innovation".

Apple innovates, and the "competition" never puts out a "thank you" note to apple for showing them the way.
 
Of course the book will be transferable to another student. They just won't be *bought* by the student.

The *school* will buy/distribute an iPad to each student (much like they do with the textbooks today). The school will buy enough copies of the e-textbooks for their students and will make sure that the iPad given to a student has the correct texts on it.

Basic math:
Typical K-12 textbook cost: $70-125
Typical class-load for a single student: 6-8 classes
Total cost for books for one student: $420-1000

Cost of a 16GB wi-fi iPad: $499
Cost of 6-8 e-textbooks @ $15 each: 90-120
Total cost of iPad + ebooks: $514-619
On the cheap end, the book to iPad changeover *may* not be worth it if the ebooks are identical to the texts the replace. On the expensive end, it's kind of a no-brainer.

You should also factor in breakage/damage. Fact is - kids will be kids - and schools will need to replace many ipads each year. And I imagine they will also be purchasing some sort of service contract (applecare). There are other costs than those named.

For college -no brainer. For pre-College - debatable.
 
Really? You take AP Bio in *college*? No. You take AP Bio in high school (if you're doing well enough to qualify).
AP Bio is a college course you take in High School. The text book is a college text book. A high school biology text book is considered college preparatory. AP books have never been and will never be High School books.
 
Say what? We can't compete globally in education? Really? We don't have the best university system in the world?

Have you been to a university lately?

A lot of the serious students in science and engineering are from overseas.
 
I think this could be very beneficial for high school/college level and middle and elementary schools to an extent but with more challenges.

When I was a freshmen, we were the first class to get laptops and have them all four years and through the program we were all issued a laptop. We kept the same laptop all four years, taking them home every night and giving them back in the summers. It worked nicely to say the least.

With iPads I can see issuing them out to high school students in much the same way. But when it comes to middle and elementary schools who currently have laptop carts that get transferred from room to room, when it comes to homework that needs a textbook I don't think it's the best idea to trust these students with an iPad, too much can go wrong.

I do think this is a really smart idea and will be beneficial to many once many of these issued are dealt with. I just hope that college textbooks will be offered at a similar price of $15 because I for sure will finally buy an iPad.
 
Textbooks aren't always ideal: cumbersome, not terribly portable, not durable, not interactive, not searchable, but the content is great. Companies work hard to update, but hard to get the content out to people fast enough.


1)How are textbooks cumbersome?! For comparison, there are no buttons (unlike an iPad), no cords, no dead batteries, no crashing, etc.

2)NOT PORTABLE?! ARE YOU KIDDING ME?! Having graduated high school and college, I can say that I never, ever, found a texbook that was not portable. Sure, maybe if I tried to carry all 15 home in 1 bag at the end of the year...but that's it. Total joke on this point, Apple.

3)Not durable? Again, a joke, Apple.

4)Not searchable? Well, kinda true...but all textbooks are broken up into Chapters and there is that thing called, um, oh, THE TABLE OF CONTENTS in the beginning...and typically an index in the back for topics and sub topics. Very very rarely did I find it hard (gee, I had to spend 5 minutes) to locate a topic in a book. And how many times in Search Engines (either web-based or built into software products) have I spent more than 5 minutes trying to find something...often enough (exception: Google)

5)Can't get the content out fast enough? Mmmmm, last time I checked at textbook was good for a Semester or longer...typically 3-9 months worth of a topic. Other than Science and Biology, textbooks are not years out of date. Typically new Editions come out every year with fixed typos, extra or new examples, and every blue moon a new topic. Lets not forget that textbook companies have been screwing kids for decades by releasing a new "edition" every year which thus makes the old edition worthless on the used market...we've all been there.


It will be interesting to see what Apple has to offer, but this opening statement is a complete joke and the biggest Marketing spin I've ever heard of.

Other comments Apple will likely make against textbooks:

1)You can get papercuts
2)Classmates can draw on them and ruin your pages
3)They are heavy and can cause scoliosis if carrying with a backpack
4)Paper can trigger nasty allergy attacks
5)That "new book smell" can cause brain tumors
6)Bullies throw textbooks at their victims


I am very surprised that in point 2 - you mention you graduated high school and college yet still have stupidity and insensitivity to say in any way scoliosis is in any way related to anything you can carry... it's congenital.

Regarding the subject. You are wrong in pretty much every way. At 14 on any given day I had between 7-9 text books to carry - and no lockers. That is stupid. Text books are out of date more often than not. Books do have to get passed down - when shools buy them - they are only buying them every 5 years or so.

Interaction increases learning massively.

But in the interest in being equal... Books and an iPad share one massive failing... Drop them in the bath and they are wrecked.
 
You should also factor in breakage/damage. Fact is - kids will be kids - and schools will need to replace many ipads each year. And I imagine they will also be purchasing some sort of service contract (applecare). There are other costs than those named.

For college -no brainer. For pre-College - debatable.

Based on numbers from my high school, while I was there, roughly 3-5% of textbooks have to be replaced each year due to loss/damage/destruction. There's no breakage/loss numbers I've seen for school-provided electronics that indicates the rate will be substantially larger for the electronics. (Heck, if nothing else, with the 'Find my iDevice' capabilities, the loss rate should drop.)
 
Based on numbers from my high school, while I was there, roughly 3-5% of textbooks have to be replaced each year due to loss/damage/destruction. There's no breakage/loss numbers I've seen for school-provided electronics that indicates the rate will be substantially larger for the electronics. (Heck, if nothing else, with the 'Find my iDevice' capabilities, the loss rate should drop.)

well - based on the amount of dropped/cracked iphones and ipads reported by adults here - I would argue that replacement costs could skyrocket. And again - there's Applecare costs as well.

ETA: By the way - as a parent - I'd rather pay a $100 book re-order if my kid lost their book vs $499 for a new iPad. But that's just me :)
 
AP Bio is a college course you take in High School. The text book is a college text book. A high school biology text book is considered college preparatory. AP books have never been and will never be High School books.

If I take a class in high school, with a high school teacher, it's a high school class.

I had the opportunity to take both AP courses *and* college courses during my senior year. The college courses were taught at a local college by a college professor. (I chose the AP courses, because none of the college-level ones which were available appealed to me more than the Passive Solar Architecture course offered in my high school, and that's what I would have had to drop to take the college courses.)
 
One issue I haven't seen discussed is whether iPads could displace existing computers in a school. So if a district's technology needs to be replaced, instead of having to purchase a lab/classroom full of machines (and typically where only a handful of students can use them at a time), an iPad could potentially pay for itself down the road with cheaper texts, lower costs for IT administration, getting technology is every student's hands instead just a few at a time, etc.
 
well - based on the amount of dropped/cracked iphones and ipads reported by adults here - I would argue that replacement costs could skyrocket. And again - there's Applecare costs as well.

ETA: By the way - as a parent - I'd rather pay a $100 book re-order if my kid lost their book vs $499 for a new iPad. But that's just me :)

Large volumes of electronics owned by a single organization? That's not an AppleCare situation, it's an insurance situation, and it's not terribly expensive to insure something like an iPad against damage. Quite a bit would be covered by the school's property insurance at no additional cost.

As for the parent paying for the re-order, in my experience that was reserved for situations where a student had deliberately destroyed the book. (Such as the idiot kid who thought it would be fun to run his Physics book through the planer during woodshop.)
 
Have you been to a university lately?

A lot of the serious students in science and engineering are from overseas.

1) The cool thing about people from overseas is, 99.99% of them are still over seas. The best and the brightest come here because

2) We have the best universities in the world here, in the United States who

3) Cater to international students.

I have been to a university and my university was made up of 85-90% people from Illinois. People from other countries come here to learn at a University my tax dollars support.

Make up this garbage about not competing if you want, but this is still the best place in the world to get a higher degree.
 
This....

So true. My wife is a Title 1 teacher (funded by federal $$) and she talked to Apple about getting some iPads. You have to buy a certain number (may have been 10) to even get a couple of percent off.

While I like this development, it will probably make books more expensive. Elementary schools (in many cases) don't buy books anymore; they buy "programs" that include all kinds of materials including the books. These are more expensive than you think, and they replace them more often than you think.

The problem with most students is that they get very little support at home when it comes to their education. iPad's will not fix that. iPad's will also not "fix" those other minor issues like the occasional bad teacher, poor school funding, and so on.

Personally, I don't like any eBook platform that is locked to one hardware vendor. I have used an iPad from launch day, and I love it and use it a ton, but I buy all my books from Amazon. Amazon ebooks work on more devices, which is nice when you don't want to drag the iPad with you. This is the same reason why I use a Roku and not an Apple TV; more choices.

Educational discounts are minimal. If you're using the above as an argument that Apple "cares" and is being altruistic - you're kidding yourself. This is business.
 
So I can send my kids to class and have them be the only kids still using an actual book because I can't afford an iPad. You don't see a problem with this?

I do not see a problem with this.

Sorry, you talk as a republican would. Not one is forcing you to do anything.

1. In America, you do not "have" to do any thing as long as you are within the law.

2. The school system will surely make sure that access to education is on par with all the kids. that means iPads for every kid, including yours.

3. Unless your children go to a private school, chances are that your children may not have the best clothe either as compared to their peers with ipads. How do you cope with that? Do the same with the iPad issue.

4. Sacrificing some money for our kid's education should be rewarding to you as a parent. Now and in the future when your kid with superb education can get a job away from an overseas competitor in his own country USA.
 
Google and MS may enter the market - but they aren't competition - they don't have the ecosystem.

Amazon is the only entity that could be in the same Market as Apple.

Ever heard of Google Books? Google is already in the business.
 
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