LocationSmart Bug Provided Easy Access to Real-Time Location Data of Millions of Phones

[I7guy]

PSA: There seems to be a lot of people in this thread who are astounded and horrified their location data is being shared. Apparently, without their consent. Fear not, it isn't without your consent. You've given your consent AND the location data isn't considered personal data. All phone makers, from Apple to Google to Samsung and everyone else tell you specifically and explicitly that your location data is not your personal data. I only briefly checked Sprint, but I'd bet all my money the other carriers consider location data non-personal as well.

As an example here is Apple's version (emphasis mine):
We also collect data in a form that does not, on its own, permit direct association with any specific individual. We may collect, use, transfer, and disclose non-personal information for any purpose. The following are some examples of non-personal information that we collect and how we may use it:

• We may collect information such as occupation, language, zip code, area code, unique device identifier, referrer URL, location, and the time zone where an Apple product is used so that we can better understand customer behavior and improve our products, services, and advertising.

Google's version? Basically the same. Samsung? Ditto Microsoft? Yerp.

tl;dr We give them the right to do what they do.

Think the keyword is nonpersonal. I have no issues with apple using my data for apple purposes or giving my data legally to outside entities. But I'm pretty sure they don't share any information that's not used for apple purposes unless there is a legal reason to do so. I have no issue with this, given apples stance on privacy.

The wireless carriers on the other hand are another story.

 

[69Mustang]

Can you trust those pigeons not to leak your whereabouts to the highest bidder...?

Of course you can't trust a pigeon. They will rat you out quicker than any other bird in the avian family. When reach for comment, the pigeon replied:

[doublepost=1526751957][/doublepost]

Think the keyword is nonpersonal. I have no issues with apple using my data for apple purposes or giving my data legally to outside entities.

Good for you. As long as you understand that when Apple shares that data with outside entities your data isn't covered by Apple's policies anymore, you should sleep well.

Lest we get sidetracked on a "must defend Apple" path, my posts aren't about Apple per se. My posts are about the industry, the data policies the companies all have in common, and what some of us consider our personal data isn't considered personal by said companies. How one feels about Apple, Google, or any of the other companies is immaterial to the topic.

But I'm pretty sure they don't share any information that's not used for apple purposes unless there is a legal reason to do so. I have no issue with this, given apples stance on privacy.

I say this with all due respect, but I'm absolutely sure you have no issues with this because it's simply your opinion. So of course you're going to have no issues with it. Apple's "stances" aren't legally binding and shouldn't be confused or conflated with things that are legally binding.

More to the point, no one is questioning why Apple shares info. No one is implying they're doing something wrong. Apple shares data. That data, once shared, is not under Apple policy. Apple's stance on privacy is moot in that instance.

 

[I7guy]

Of course you can't trust a pigeon. They will rat you out quicker than any other bird in the avian family. When reach for comment, the pigeon replied:

[doublepost=1526751957][/doublepost]
Good for you. As long as you understand that when Apple shares that data with outside entities your data isn't covered by Apple's policies anymore, you should sleep well.

Lest we get sidetracked on a "must defend Apple" path, my posts aren't about Apple per se. My posts are about the industry, the data policies the companies all have in common, and what some of us consider our personal data isn't considered personal by said companies. How one feels about Apple, Google, or any of the other companies is immaterial to the topic.


I say this with all due respect, but I'm absolutely sure you have no issues with this because it's simply your opinion. So of course you're going to have no issues with it. Apple's "stances" aren't legally binding and shouldn't be confused or conflated with things that are legally binding.

More to the point, no one is questioning why Apple shares info. No one is implying they're doing something wrong. Apple shares data. That data, once shared, is not under Apple policy. Apple's stance on privacy is moot in that instance.

You have no evidence Apple is sharing any data as I described as it’s just your opinion that they may be.

 

[69Mustang]

You have no evidence Apple is sharing any data as I described as it’s just your opinion that they may be.

What? Not sure if you're serious. Apple shares data. Period. Apple can't function as a company without sharing data. That is a fact.

 

[I7guy]

What? Not sure if you're serious. Apple shares data. Period. Apple can't function as a company without sharing data. That is a fact.

Have some proof to backup that statement that Apple throws your personal data out the door? Not talking differential privacy here.

 

[69Mustang]

Have some proof to backup that statement that Apple throws your personal data out the door? Not talking differential privacy here.

Sweet jeebus. We have devolved into defend Apple territory. Not going to participate. Especially since you are intentionally trying to misconstrue what I've stated. No, I'm being entirely too generous. You are out and out lying. Nowhere in any of my comments did I make a statement like that. Tell you what. I'm just gonna throw that ol' ignore on ya. Anyone willing to do what you just did, ain't worth the time. Too many others are willing to participate in honest discourse.

 

[I7guy]

Sweet jeebus. We have devolved into defend Apple territory. Not going to participate. Especially since you are intentionally trying to misconstrue what I've stated. No, I'm being entirely too generous. You are out and out lying. Nowhere in any of my comments did I make a statement like that. Tell you what. I'm just gonna throw that ol' ignore on ya. Anyone willing to do what you just did, ain't worth the time. Too many others are willing to participate in honest discourse.

Okay use the old ignore.

You went through the effort of quoting apple’s policy and I’m wondering exactly what information is being shared? There was some inbetween discourse, but it seems you were trying to draw some parallels to the thread intentions which was based on the carriers sharing your location information.

Additionally, I'm not really seeing "honest discourse".

What? Not sure if you're serious. Apple shares data. Period. Apple can't function as a company without sharing data. That is a fact.

What data are you talking about? You got questioned on this general statement. Oh wait I’m on ignore.

 

[scoobydoo99]

A spokesperson for AT&T told Krebs that the carrier "does not permit the sharing of location information without customer consent or a demand from law enforcement,"

A "demand" from law enforcement?!? This is the problem. They are fascist collaborators that help to subvert the constitution by providing private data upon law enforcement request, instead of requiring a court order (e.g. warrant). This enables a corrupt, secret police (in cooperation with corporations) to lay the foundations of totalitarianism.

 

[chucker23n1]

Good for you. As long as you understand that when Apple shares that data with outside entities your data isn't covered by Apple's policies anymore, you should sleep well.

Where's your evidence that Apple is 1) collecting location data in the first place (no, Find My Friends doesn't count), and 2) sharing location data with third parties?

Lest we get sidetracked on a "must defend Apple" path, my posts aren't about Apple per se. My posts are about the industry, the data policies the companies all have in common, and what some of us consider our personal data isn't considered personal by said companies. How one feels about Apple, Google, or any of the other companies is immaterial to the topic.

Except that this article isn't about "the industry" at all. It's weird that you keep bringing up phone makers when the article is about carriers. And it's weird that you keep making tu quoques when the article literally says all four major US cellphone carriers participated. "Well, tech companies do it, too!" — do they? And if so, why is that relevant to the topic?

 

[69Mustang]

Where's your evidence that Apple is 1) collecting location data in the first place (no, Find My Friends doesn't count), and 2) sharing location data with third parties?

Apple's privacy policy is my proof. Besides Apple telling you they share data. There's no way for you, me, or anyone else to use an iPhone or any phone for that matter without data sharing. Not sure what the argument is.

Except that this article isn't about "the industry" at all. It's weird that you keep bringing up phone makers when the article is about carriers. And it's weird that you keep making tu quoques when the article literally says all four major US cellphone carriers participated. "Well, tech companies do it, too!" — do they? And if so, why is that relevant to the topic?

Well when you start your participation at the end, you miss a lot of the context. You also draw incorrect conclusions. Who said anything about this article being about the industry? That's your mistake, not my claim. My posts have all been about a topic ancillary to article. My first post clearly explained everything. Subsequent posts extended that topic until we got to I7guy and his desire to defend Apple somehow.

 

[chucker23n1]

Apple's privacy is my proof. Besides Apple telling you they share data. There's no way for you, me, or anyone else to use an iPhone or any phone for that matter without data sharing. Not sure what the argument is.

So you're saying Apple took non-anonymized location data of every single iPhone user and sold it to a third party? Cause that's what the four major US carriers did.

If so, that's quite a scandal. You should probably talk to a journalist.

Well when you start your participation at the end, you miss a lot of the context. You also draw incorrect conclusions. Who said anything about this article being about the industry? That's your mistake, not my claim. My posts have all been about a topic ancillary to article. My first post clearly explained everything. Subsequent posts extended that topic until we got to I7guy and his desire to defend Apple somehow.

This article isn't about Apple. Nor Google. The word "industry" was used by you.

 

[69Mustang]

So you're saying Apple took non-anonymized location data of every single iPhone user and sold it to a third party? Cause that's what the four major US carriers did.

I'm saying no such thing. Didn't imply it and you can't infer from any of my quotes. If you're not going to actually read what I wrote, what are we doin' here? You make up accusations based on nothing in my quotes and I'm supposed to somehow come up with answers to your made up queries? If you're not going to ask about something I actually said, let's call it day.

This article isn't about Apple. Nor Google. The word "industry" was used by you.

I'm going to try this again. I know what the article is about. I also said, and you seemed to ignore, my comments were about a topic ancillary to the article. The word industry was not used in relation to the article's topic. Meaning my comments were not about the article's topic. I never said the article was about Apple or Google. Apple and Google were used as examples in my topic. Did I threadjack? Yeah, you can say that. It was done as an observation of all the comments thinking location data was their private info.

 

[chucker23n1]

I'm saying no such thing. Didn't imply it and you can't infer from any of my quotes.

And yet everyone thinks you absolutely did imply it with your original post. Funny thing, that.

 

[I7guy]

Apple's privacy policy is my proof. Besides Apple telling you they share data. There's no way for you, me, or anyone else to use an iPhone or any phone for that matter without data sharing. Not sure what the argument is.


Well when you start your participation at the end, you miss a lot of the context. You also draw incorrect conclusions. Who said anything about this article being about the industry? That's your mistake, not my claim. My posts have all been about a topic ancillary to article. My first post clearly explained everything. Subsequent posts extended that topic until we got to I7guy and his desire to defend Apple somehow.

You started this off topic conversation about Apple. And have no proof to what you quoted. Seems like stirring the pot is what is happening.

 

[69Mustang]

And yet everyone thinks you absolutely did imply it with your original post. Funny thing, that.

I'm not sure who "everyone" is, but "everyone" needs help with reading comprehension if that's what "everyone" thinks. I can't help 'em.

 

[julesme]

The problem with sharing this info. with 3rd parties is the difficulty or inability to gauge if they will adequately protect it. I have no problem with Apple offering me a service (backed by 2 factor auth) to locate my device. If on the other hand, a carrier like AT&T or Verizon sells realtime location data to a company I've never heard of, and they do a ****** job protecting the data, now what?

 

[tito2020]

There's a company like this..??

yes i was in the toliet and i slighty moved now they have my location in the dark hole lol.

 

[ImNoSuperMan]

I'm not sure who "everyone" is, but "everyone" needs help with reading comprehension if that's what "everyone" thinks. I can't help 'em.

Guess I need help with comprehension too.

The article is about a website/service being able to know your real time location with just your phone number.

What you don’t seem to understand is what people in this thread are having an issue with. How can anyone track my location with JUST a phone number. I don’t claim to know if this is legal or not. Just that it certainly SHOULD be. My brain simply cant find any way for carriers to let anyone track me in real time with just a freakin phone number.

Don’t worry, I’ve already put my self on your ignore list until I go and get myself re educated and maybe end up improving my comprehension in a way that your arguments about Apple google and others location data/privacy policy make sense to me in this thread where carriers are leaking out my private real time info without a police warrant. It certainly doesent today. Applying for kindergarten again

 

[69Mustang]

Guess I need help with comprehension too.

The article is about a website/service being able to know your real time location with just your phone number.

What you don’t seem to understand is what people in this thread are having an issue with. How can anyone track my location with JUST a phone number. I don’t claim to know if this is legal or not. Just that it certainly SHOULD be. My brain simply cant find any way for carriers to let anyone track me in real time with just a freakin phone number.

Don’t worry, I’ve already put my self on your ignore list until I go and get myself re educated and maybe end up improving my comprehension in a way that your arguments about Apple google and others location data/privacy policy make sense to me in this thread where carriers are leaking out my private real time info without a police warrant. It certainly doesent today. Applying for kindergarten again

Your self imposed position on my ignore list vastly overestimates the importance of your comment. You're welcome to your opinion and your passive aggressiveness. Enjoy them both.

 

[DaveWil]

Well I am fairly sure my phone does not send its location or have its location servers on at all times. The battery can't handle it. Cell tower tracking, sure. I assume that is happening, why wouldn't they. There are very few company that own cell towers and why would they not try and make a profit on it. What are your other option, none really.

 

[bollman]

I find it really amusing that most people don't read EULAs and when they do, and find them outrageous, they tend to think that "others" are different. Not so.

Apple is not the only company that has it's own army of legal people. Personal data is big business. Do you all really think that they wouldn't make sure there was a way to profit on this data?

Side note:
There was this ISP in Sweden that made sure from the start that your were anonymous. They deleted all data immediately. They simply didn't have it, so it couldn't be disclosed or sold.
They got dragged to court and was ordered to save traffic data.

 

[macsba]

I switched to payphones and homing pigeons. No one is tracking me yet!

They know where the payphones are located.

 

[techinportland]

1. This is coming from the carriers NOT Apple, Google, Samsung, etc.

2. The article does not make this super clear but it did NOT reveal exact "GPS" location, it told which tower you are on.

3. I have not researched this, but I imagine we all "agree" to this in the privacy policy, hence the carriers referring to it.

4. I can see the useful business purposes behind carriers selling it, some is creepy and annoying. Some is helpful.

5. The breach here is that the anyone could track anyone. Also it raises some real 4th amendment issues if the government uses it. IANAL so not sure if the math changes if it is publicly available tool. i.e government can sit outside your house without a warrant.

Helpful, banks cross referencing your general location with purchases. I.e if the bank sees that your phone was in Portland in the Morning and Denver in the afternoon, way less likely to deny a charge in Denver.

As the companies own site gives as a use case, hotels can use it to know if you are in the same city or state, i.e land

Creepy use case would be more targeted advertising and linking all sorts of tracked date together.

Again I think WE have no idea how much companies are really aggregating about us behind the scenes.

 

[chucker23n1]

I have not researched this, but I imagine we all "agree" to this in the privacy policy, hence the carriers referring to it.

That may be so, but consumers clearly aren't able to make informed choices about privacy policies, EULAs, etc. There's all sorts of stuff people opt into, but likely wouldn't consent to if someone were to actually explain it to them in detail.

We can get outraged over something even if it's perfectly legal — sometimes the norms or laws are just wrong.

Helpful, banks cross referencing your general location with purchases. I.e if the bank sees that your phone was in Portland in the Morning and Denver in the afternoon, way less likely to deny a charge in Denver.

As the companies own site gives as a use case, hotels can use it to know if you are in the same city or state, i.e land

Creepy use case would be more targeted advertising and linking all sorts of tracked date together.

Honestly, those bank and hotel use cases are creepy enough.