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Logic 8 Thursday?

Surreal said:
JFreak...i remember you being a decent guy and answering questions when i was frothing at the mouth for logic. having said that, i think you are being a bit snotty in your exchange with milo.
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My apologies to everyone; it is not always so easy for us non-native english speakers to stick to absolutely polite writing. The different nature of languages makes it easy to look arrogant when you write in a hurry or if you're just plain tired. I didn't mean to upset people or look down to anyone.

Anyway, I hope that this explanation shed some light to this Protools HD question despite being a Logic thread :p
 
Edge100 said:
They HAVE figured it out:
http://www.apogeedigital.com/products/symphony_performance.php

What JFreak has been saying is absolutely true; TDM systems have no additional latency added when plugins aren't in the signal path. When TDM plugs are added, there is a minimal amount of latency added. RTAS plugs are a different story.

But Apogee has created a native system that is so well integrated with the host that it can run at 1.6ms, analog to analog, through plugins. That's TDM territory. Other native systems can't touch this, especially not Firewire-based systems. FW systems HAVE TO have additional safety buffers to avoid problems at low latencies. That having been said, with a modern Intel Mac running a FW interface with well-written drivers (MOTU comes to mind), you can work pretty comfortably at 64 samples (64 in + 64 out = 128 total = approx 3ms)...I do this right now. Of course, I get added latency when I add plugins, but I get around this by direct monitoring and/or leaving plug-ins OFF until mix time. This leaves me with less flexibility than a TDM or Symphony-based system, but it gets the job done.

The Symphony system is a great proof-of-concept; native systems CAN run with latencies like TDM. But that will require a close collaboration between DAW, interface, and computer makers, and will require these people to value latency over 'frills'.
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OK but Apogees systems are too limited. E.g. I need 5-6 ADAT inputs. Currently I can only get that from RME or MOTU (by stacking two 2408's). As far as I recall Apogees have only 1 ADAT I/O - a MADI solution would also work for me since I have an RME ADI-648 with 8 ADAT in/out, but no MADI from Apogee either. And as a Logic user primarily, I can't use a Digidesign system either.
 
Simon R. said:
as a Logic user primarily, I can't use a Digidesign system either.
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Doesn't Logic support Digidesign TDM hardware? I thought it did.

www.apple.com/logicpro/studiogear.html said:
Besides the high-end Pro Tools HD PCI based systems, Digidesign also offers more entry level audio interfacesm such as the USB-based M-Box and the FireWire-based Digi 002.
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While this doesn't clearly say that such interfaces are supported, the page gives an impression about listed ones being supported.
 
JFreak said:
Doesn't Logic support Digidesign TDM hardware? I thought it did.

.
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Maybe it does. Haven't really investigated. But even then, I don't think there is any Digidesign stuff with a lot of ADAT I/O's. And of course... I would have to be ready to shell out 10 grand or something just for starters.
 
Simon R. said:
Maybe it does. Haven't really investigated. But even then, I don't think there is any Digidesign stuff with a lot of ADAT I/O's.
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If I remember correctly, 192 Digital has two ADATs with automatic sample rate conversion. Two such interfaces total four ADATs which is 32 inputs and outputs -- how much do you need?

Simon R. said:
And of course... I would have to be ready to shell out 10 grand or something just for starters.
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That's the biggest obstacle of all :)
 
JFreak said:
If I remember correctly, 192 Digital has two ADATs with automatic sample rate conversion. Two such interfaces total four ADATs which is 32 inputs and outputs -- how much do you need?



That's the biggest obstacle of all :)
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I need at least 5 ADAT ins (and outs, for syncing everything to the same clock), since I am running 5 PC's ADAT output from RME cards into my DAW:) Actually I only need 2 pairs of stereo outputs from each, so I am "wasting" half of the bandwidth, but there really isn't any easier solution as I see it.

From what I can see the 192 only has one ADAT in+out. So.... 10.000 euros for the PCIe Accel card and then I would need some I/O solution which isn't available it seems. I think I'll have to stick to native for the time being:)
 
There are two 192 versions. The analog one only has one ADAT, but if I remember correctky, the digital 192 has two. And then you can expand the system with a used dirt cheap legacy ADAT bridge that has two ADATs.

Bur if you really need to have 5 ADATs, then you cannot use a HD1 system which only has 32 i/o capability. You would have to buy a HD2 with sufficient interface, which costs about 15 grand list price.

So yeah, you probably get it done with some another system for a fraction of the cost. I do know that cost is many times the greatest obstacle ;)
 
Simon R. said:
OK but Apogees systems are too limited. E.g. I need 5-6 ADAT inputs. Currently I can only get that from RME or MOTU (by stacking two 2408's). As far as I recall Apogees have only 1 ADAT I/O - a MADI solution would also work for me since I have an RME ADI-648 with 8 ADAT in/out, but no MADI from Apogee either. And as a Logic user primarily, I can't use a Digidesign system either.
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The best solution for multiple ADAT ins is the M-Audio device mentioned above. You're quite right, Apogee doesn't make a device that handles this. Apogee makes converters, and makes damn good ones at that. Since the M-Audio unit would not be doing any conversion, I think this would be the best bet. I've thought of using the M-Audio ADAT unit with a nice digital mixer in place of my current setup.

And you CAN use Digi HD hardware with Logic; http://www.apple.com/logicpro/musicstudio.html

As I said before, the reason PT is so widely used is the HD hardware, not the PT software. Yes, PT HD software is good, but frankly using Logic or DP to run HD hardware is the best of both worlds (IF you can get everything working smoothly, which apparently is now possible).
 
Surreal said:
why does This immediately come to mind when you say you want 5-6 adat ins?

i think we have a match.

dunno about drivers though. but it should work with logic just dandy. :)
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I have a ProFire. It has 4 ADATs. And it doesn't have direct (hardware) monitoring, so it turned out to be almost useless to me since I need to monitor a ton of inputs. AND it is FireWire which is not as good as PCI/PCIe, so I am going MOTU. I already have an RME ADI-648 on the PC with 8 ADAT in+out, but unfortunately RME are extremely slow getting PCIe solutions out, so I have to move to MOTU.
 
Simon R. said:
I have a ProFire. It has 4 ADATs. And it doesn't have direct (hardware) monitoring, so it turned out to be almost useless to me since I need to monitor a ton of inputs. AND it is FireWire which is not as good as PCI/PCIe, so I am going MOTU. I already have an RME ADI-648 on the PC with 8 ADAT in+out, but unfortunately RME are extremely slow getting PCIe solutions out, so I have to move to MOTU.
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If conversion quality was not an issue (as it isn't here), I would nearly always choose MOTU. Their interfaces (both FW and PCI) are as stable as they come. The conversion and preamp quality is a little lower than RME, but they're great interfaces otherwise.
 
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