Logic Pro X Updated With Improved 12-Core Mac Pro Support, App Enhancements and Fixes

[D*I*S_Frontman]

Yeah, VEP5 pretty much makes Logic "node" networking look ridiculous. With VEP5 you can have a Mac as your main machine and dirt-cheap PCs as your samplers and plug-in hosts. Some plugs 32 bit and some 64 bit? Doesn't matter--VEP5 will make it work.

I can't remember ever reading a post on any forum in which someone bought the VEPro software, configured it, and then regretted their purchase. $325 sounds like a hefty price for a mere software bridge, but given how many problems it solves for a working studio it's still a bargain.

 

[barkmonster]

I wouldn't count on it but many producers, specially those into big film scoring projects are using VEP5 with great success. You can even use it on the same computer to run 32 bit plug-ins.

I'm aware of it but it's another USB copy protection dongle. The idea I could simply network my existing system to a more modern one for more power is excellent but one thing that appeals about Logic or Reaper is they're not needed. I would dive straight into Reaper but it's the instrument plugins with Logic that interest me too. I used Micrologic before moving to Pro Tools LE too in the late 90s.

 

[mgroover]

Has anyone heard anything about GPU offloading?

 

[phas3d]

he idea I could simply network my existing system to a more modern one for more power is excellent but one thing that appeals about Logic or Reaper is they're not needed.

If you're not interested why did you ask about the Logic Node?

 

[barkmonster]

If you're not interested why did you ask about the Logic Node?

Try reading for comprehension. I was clearly referring to hardware copy protection that both Pro Tools and Vegas are crippled by. Logic and Reaper don't need them but I'd use Logic over Reaper given the choice.

 

[milo]

I was clearly referring to hardware copy protection that both Pro Tools and Vegas are crippled by.

Wasn't clear to me either, even after I went back and read it again. Try being open to the possibility that someone who misunderstands what you say might not be an idiot.

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Has anyone heard anything about GPU offloading?

Nope. I've been hearing that GPU isn't a good fit for the kinds of real time computations used in audio. It seems like if it were practical to do, Apple would have had at least something using it ready for a Logic update at the time of the Mac Pro release (and they did release a Logic update right around then).

Maybe some of it some day, but I would keep your expectations low.

 

[barkmonster]

Wasn't clear to me either, even after I went back and read it again. Try being open to the possibility that someone who misunderstands what you say might not be an idiot.

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Nope. I've been hearing that GPU isn't a good fit for the kinds of real time computations used in audio. It seems like if it were practical to do, Apple would have had at least something using it ready for a Logic update at the time of the Mac Pro release (and they did release a Logic update right around then).

Maybe some of it some day, but I would keep your expectations low.

On the first point, true but then again, scolding someone over your own misunderstanding of a point they were making is pointless.

As far as the GPU offloading, from everything I've read, it's entirely unsuitable for real-time audio tasks. I wonder if they'd use it in other ways for offline tasks though. Altivec was a genuine help for audio work but SIMD extensions are closer to the way a CPU works compared with GPUs.

 

[phas3d]

Try reading for comprehension. I was clearly referring to hardware copy protection that both Pro Tools and Vegas are crippled by. Logic and Reaper don't need them but I'd use Logic over Reaper given the choice.

On your first post you specifically asked about Logic node and also wrote:

"One other reason is that my Macs are networked and it would be great to just dial in more CPU power by adding another system for use with Logic Node."

I presented you with VEP5 as another option since Logic node will most likely not be brought back. VEP5 is way more versatile than Logic node ever was. Also, since when is hardware protection crippling? Maybe it's crippling for people wanting to run illegal copies.

 

[barkmonster]

On your first post you specifically asked about Logic node and also wrote:

"One other reason is that my Macs are networked and it would be great to just dial in more CPU power by adding another system for use with Logic Node."

I presented you with VEP5 as another option since Logic node will most likely not be brought back. VEP5 is way more versatile than Logic node ever was. Also, since when is hardware protection crippling? Maybe it's crippling for people wanting to run illegal copies.

Why should I buy 1 USB tether per processing node VS no USB tether at all?

What kind of complete moron would prefer hardware copy protection over the way Logic 9 or Reaper Reamote works?

What basis of fact does your tedious presumption about piracy have?

One of the many reasons I've had it with AVID is the iLok. I don't want to have 2 options if I want to upgrade Pro Tools: -

1) Buy a new iLok for £40 + pay over £300 for PT 11.
2) Buy a completely new audio interface that comes with PT 11 and a new iLok for little more than that.

The first thing Apple did when they bought eMagic was ditch the USB tether. If companies could agree to at least share their hardware copy protection, then VEP5 could use my existing iLok but it would still be annoying.

You literally need to buy 1 USB dongle per processing node with VEP5, it's clearly explained on their site so innitially, it's £235 for VEP5 and another £28 for the USB dongle, then I need to spend another £28 for additional systems. What if I got a Macbook at a later date? do you honestly think I want to waste one of 2 USB ports on anything that benefits a software company but not what I'm using for?

 

[phas3d]

It's still cheaper the upgrading a computer and ditching the old one. Have you heard of USB hubs? They're quite cheap you know. Also, if the other computer(s) are going to be idle who cares if they have a USB port occupied. They don't even need to have a keyboard, mouse and monitor connected. It's as simple as setting VEP5 or whatever to startup when the computer boots. You also get the benefit of being able to run 32 bit plug-ins with Logic Pro X. And since we're discussing this, how many computers do you need as nodes? 10, 15!!! Do your projects have over 200 tracks? I mix projects sometimes over 100 tracks and my 2009 Mac Pro runs just fine.
Another bad thing about. Logic node was that you couldn't offload into the node certain VI's. It's really more a hassle than anything, believe me. I've been using Logic for close to 20 years and using it heavily. I used Logic Platinum. A decent modern computer will run most projects even with CPU intensive VI's. Something like VEP5 is normally used for big film scores and orchestral projects.

 

[barkmonster]

It's still cheaper the upgrading a computer and ditching the old one. Have you heard of USB hubs? They're quite cheap you know. Also, if the other computer(s) are going to be idle who cares if they have a USB port occupied. They don't even need to have a keyboard, mouse and monitor connected. It's as simple as setting VEP5 or whatever to startup when the computer boots. You also get the benefit of being able to run 32 bit plug-ins with Logic Pro X. And since we're discussing this, how many computers do you need as nodes? 10, 15!!! Do your projects have over 200 tracks? I mix projects sometimes over 100 tracks and my 2009 Mac Pro runs just fine.
Another bad thing about. Logic node was that you couldn't offload into the node certain VI's. It's really more a hassle than anything, believe me. I've been using Logic for close to 20 years and using it heavily. I used Logic Platinum. A decent modern computer will run most projects even with CPU intensive VI's. Something like VEP5 is normally used for big film scores and orchestral projects.

That ramble misses the point. There's no valid argument FOR cost and inconvenience VS no additional cost/inconvenience.

 

[phas3d]

That ramble misses the point. There's no valid argument FOR cost and inconvenience VS no additional cost/inconvenience.

Again it's you that misses the point. It was you who first asked about that feature and not me. And I explained you here that unless you're working with enormous projects you don't need it as long as you have a fast enough computer. Also, the costs are justified for such big projects. Try working on projects with hundreds of tracks and you'll find out. Maybe you should also take some time to read posts more carefully before dismissing them.

 

[barkmonster]

Again it's you that misses the point. It was you who first asked about that feature and not me. And I explained you here that unless you're working with enormous projects you don't need it as long as you have a fast enough computer. Also, the costs are justified for such big projects. Try working on projects with hundreds of tracks and you'll find out. Maybe you should also take some time to read posts more carefully before dismissing them.

I'll clarify one last time because you're clearly going to keep repeating yourself till I agree with you.

It would be useful to have Logic node, failing that Reaper with Reamote because it means you can utilise older Intel-based Macs for additional CPU power WITHOUT ADDITIONAL USB HARDWARE OF EXPENSE. Is none of this sinking in at all?

I even tried to get a demo version of VE Pro off their site but after giving them an rediculous amount of information to register on their forums, it then greys out the demo version download link stating you have to own one of their products to try out a demo of one their products. Pathetic.

 

[milo]

Why should I buy 1 USB tether per processing node VS no USB tether at all?

All else being equal, everyone would avoid the copy protection. But that's only an option if there's an alternative that's just as good but without copy protection, and I'm not sure what that option would be.

What kind of complete moron would prefer hardware copy protection over the way Logic 9 or Reaper Reamote works?

Are you talking about the node in Logic 9? VEP does a ton of stuff that Logic doesn't on its own (not familiar with Reamote). People aren't morons, they actually know what features it provides and take advantage of those features. Now I would love to see Apple bring back the node or something similar that can do everything VEP can, but until they do that VEP is extremely useful.

Heck, VEP offers some major advantages when running Logic on a single machine, no slave.

The first thing Apple did when they bought eMagic was ditch the USB tether.

And I was extremely glad when they did that. But in Apple's case, even if everyone pirated Logic it wouldn't be that big a deal for them since Logic users are buying macs to run it. Other companies don't have the luxury of having computer sales subsidize app development.

It would be useful to have Logic node, failing that Reaper with Reamote because it means you can utilise older Intel-based Macs for additional CPU power WITHOUT ADDITIONAL USB HARDWARE OF EXPENSE.

It would be useful to have Logic node. But unless they give it a lot more functionality it would still be much less useful than third party apps like VEP.

 

[barkmonster]

All else being equal, everyone would avoid the copy protection. But that's only an option if there's an alternative that's just as good but without copy protection, and I'm not sure what that option would be.



Are you talking about the node in Logic 9? VEP does a ton of stuff that Logic doesn't on its own (not familiar with Reamote). People aren't morons, they actually know what features it provides and take advantage of those features. Now I would love to see Apple bring back the node or something similar that can do everything VEP can, but until they do that VEP is extremely useful.

Heck, VEP offers some major advantages when running Logic on a single machine, no slave.



And I was extremely glad when they did that. But in Apple's case, even if everyone pirated Logic it wouldn't be that big a deal for them since Logic users are buying macs to run it. Other companies don't have the luxury of having computer sales subsidize app development.



It would be useful to have Logic node. But unless they give it a lot more functionality it would still be much less useful than third party apps like VEP.

It's extremely difficult to actually get a demo of VEP to see how it works with my setup when their site misleads you into thinking you can download a demo by registering on their forums with far more information than necessary, then the link is greyed out completely with a message saying it's only available to owners of other products they make. Very dishonest and I'd at least like to see how it works for myself as I currently use Reaper via Rewire with terrible latency to run VST/AU plug-ins into Pro Tools and it would be good to see how it faired from a CPU power/latency point of view first hand.

 

[milo]

I can't comment on their policies, if you're having trouble getting the demo I would contact their support and see if they can help.

 

[phas3d]

All else being equal, everyone would avoid the copy protection. But that's only an option if there's an alternative that's just as good but without copy protection, and I'm not sure what that option would be.



Are you talking about the node in Logic 9? VEP does a ton of stuff that Logic doesn't on its own (not familiar with Reamote). People aren't morons, they actually know what features it provides and take advantage of those features. Now I would love to see Apple bring back the node or something similar that can do everything VEP can, but until they do that VEP is extremely useful.

Heck, VEP offers some major advantages when running Logic on a single machine, no slave.



And I was extremely glad when they did that. But in Apple's case, even if everyone pirated Logic it wouldn't be that big a deal for them since Logic users are buying macs to run it. Other companies don't have the luxury of having computer sales subsidize app development.



It would be useful to have Logic node. But unless they give it a lot more functionality it would still be much less useful than third party apps like VEP.

+1
I'm glad at least someone understood me

 

[kingtj]

re: GPU good fit for audio processing?

You know? I was just reading some technical info about the difficulty in coding games for Sony's Playstation 3 and it made me think that might be a GREAT platform for audio processing, that everyone has overlooked so far for the purpose.

They were saying the "cell" processors in it are essentially 7 or 8 general purpose CPUs that run in parallel, except they're severely limited in functionality because they can only address 128K of memory each, at a time. There's a "main" processor that winds up doing the bulk of the work for most PS3 games, because developers have such a hard time finding enough work to farm out to the other processors and coding it so it all streams in and out of them without delays.

As one of the developers commented in passing though, the arrangement would be ideal for something like audio signaling.

I've been hearing that GPU isn't a good fit for the kinds of real time computations used in audio. It seems like if it were practical to do, Apple would have had at least something using it ready for a Logic update at the time of the Mac Pro release (and they did release a Logic update right around then).

Maybe some of it some day, but I would keep your expectations low.

 

[Macist]

Cubase is as reliable as a pensioner's heartbeat. ProTools for audio, Logic for MIDI/AUs. Cubase's support with older OSs is nothing short of appalling and I'm surprised people even use it for anything these days.

Yep. I used Cubase initially on Atari, top dog at the time, then on Mac before moving to Logic not long before it was bought by Apple. Cubase seems pretty obscure now considering how it used to dominate.

Almost everyone uses Logic, Live or Protools now depending on what your priority is. More people seem to use FL Studio than Cubase now.

 

[aliensporebomb]

Good news...

Good news for a guy like me who likes to write what I call "soundtrack with no film music". Cool beans. Now to find some way of getting a machine with that much CPU horsepower.

 

[phas3d]

The latest i7 Mac Mini is very powerful. More than people can imagine. The top iMac on benchmarks running Logic is probably 10% faster. However, the Mac Mini refresh is eminent. If I were you I would wait for it to come out so you can either get the current generation cheaper or the one coming out at the current price.

 

[yucate]

some posts are very amusing. The main issue is coming from apple. When they bought in 2002 EMAGIC they actually did not change anything in the architecture of Logic until now, its still LENGELING Emagic for me and I use it since the beginning. Sure they changed the look and some plugs and bla bla bla but at the end they try to tell u need so many fekkin cores to produce, Just ask myself what they would have done in the 70s,80s,90s probably shoot them self.. they commercialized the whole issue with GARAGEBAND to make money. they really dont care for Logic and the producers. They only care if they can sell you something new. Dont get any ideas they will change something soon. Producers arent the best customers for apple. The best machines will not help you to get the performance out which ya need unless they change LOGIC 100% in the core & coding and make it efficient

 

[milo]

...they try to tell u need so many fekkin cores to produce...

They don't tell me anything, the number of cores I need is dictated by my work. I do wish Logic would put in some more work into CPU optimization and core balancing, but before Logic 10 came out I tested DP and Cubase and both were far less CPU efficient than Logic.

The main issue I have with Logic's CPU handling is that live tracks only use a single core, still not fixed in .7. If they can finally work that out, I'll be very happy with how efficient Logic is, other than the tracking issue it can handle an amazing amount for playback/mixing/editing.

 

[beestigbeestje]

I'll often be in a situation where a track is 90% done, using Ozone, BFD, Ivory, etc. all playing back fine on a 1024 buffer. Then I decide I need to re-record or add a guitar part. I set the buffer down to 128 to do this and the Mac doesn't have the power to play the project at this setting.

People commenting that faster/more core CPUs aren't needed for audio don't know what they're talking about. Freezing tracks to reduce CPU is a PITA.

Also, freezing files only help if there are lots of input plugins. It makes no differences if you have everything on busses and groups.