And a lot more cumbersome too. I have a Mac Mini hooked up to my tv which is even more practical than a small Atom PC but even with XBMC and all, I just don't see it being a true TV replacement for non geeks anytime soon, and unless we have something that can truly replace the cable, I don't think people will bother with these additional boxes. I know many like their Apple TV, Boxee, Popcorn Hour, etc, but as Jobs has put it, it remains a "hobby" and a niche market for large players.
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Logitech Slashes Google TV-Based Revue to $99 as Returns Exceed Sales
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And a lot more cumbersome too. I have a Mac Mini hooked up to my tv which is even more practical than a small Atom PC but even with XBMC and all, I just don't see it being a true TV replacement for non geeks anytime soon, and unless we have something that can truly replace the cable, I don't think people will bother with these additional boxes. I know many like their Apple TV, Boxee, Popcorn Hour, etc, but as Jobs has put it, it remains a "hobby" and a niche market for large players.
Apple TV
Never used the Logitech, never considered buying one, Google TV sounded like a loser from the start. I do however LOVE my Apple TV (Gen 1) and use it as a DVR to play TV shows and movies from the iTunes store. Love love love it and use it every day. The cable company DVR sits there, running but never watched, full of shows and movies, that look terrible (the quality is awful) and have commercials.
Never used the Logitech, never considered buying one, Google TV sounded like a loser from the start. I do however LOVE my Apple TV (Gen 1) and use it as a DVR to play TV shows and movies from the iTunes store. Love love love it and use it every day. The cable company DVR sits there, running but never watched, full of shows and movies, that look terrible (the quality is awful) and have commercials.
Oil companies make the most profits in the world. In the HISTORY of the world. I'm pretty sure they aren't scraping by while the SUV makers get rich (you may recall how close to bankruptcy many SUV makers have been in recent times, in fact).
Comcast had another record quarter Q1 2011. They had $12B in revenues, over 6 times that of NBC/Universal's cable network operations, of which they are now majority owners. Granted, that's not all profit: profits for Comcast Q1/2011 were a "mere" $4 Billion, while NBC/Universal had $817M in profits in that same quarter, which is a significantly smaller fraction of revenues as profits than Comcast in general. Yeah, those cable companies are just barely scraping by!
This is a product I had never even heard of. Is it like an Apple TV? Or does it do anything else? Or less?
I don't understand how Apple's competitors don't seem to get that they can't compete with Apple if they price their competing products higher or equal to Apple's. Apple has built such a successful image around their brand that every one will always choose Apple when two products have the same price point, and if the non-Apple product is more expensive there's no question about it.
Look at the tablet market, a tablet would have to be significantly cheaper than iPad to even stand a chance. Tech companies are basically committing suicide when they launch a tablet more expensive than an iPad.
I don't understand how Apple's competitors don't seem to get that they can't compete with Apple if they price their competing products higher or equal to Apple's. Apple has built such a successful image around their brand that every one will always choose Apple when two products have the same price point, and if the non-Apple product is more expensive there's no question about it.
Look at the tablet market, a tablet would have to be significantly cheaper than iPad to even stand a chance. Tech companies are basically committing suicide when they launch a tablet more expensive than an iPad.
Video mirroring is only possible with iPad 2. But both iPad 1 and iPhone 4 are able to stream videos from AirPlay enabled apps to ATV in 720p and they will be also able to stream 1080p videos after iOS 5 update. So basically any YouTube or any other internet video able to play in your Safari browser on iPad will stream to ATV via AirPlay. That is of cause also possible with videos from Video app and in my country also with all videos from local TV network's iPad or iPhone apps.
I would also like to know about that crap Sony dug out from the bowels of their R&D basement. The Sony TV.
I was in my local Sony Style store at the mall a few months ago and I can attest that t Sony TV is worthless!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one even bothered to help me use it as I was fiddling around with that 300 key remote.
The sales staff, a bunch of non desrcript, Branch Devidian like schmucks wearing them long sleeve, beam-me-up-Scotty henleys simply stood around waiting for their orders from, "THE CHURCH".
I swear, if you ask them a question they couldn't handle, they'd pop a cyanide pill on the effing spot then fall back dead leaving you to mouth with or without audio:WTF!
I was in my local Sony Style store at the mall a few months ago and I can attest that t Sony TV is worthless!!!!!!!!!!!!! No one even bothered to help me use it as I was fiddling around with that 300 key remote.
The sales staff, a bunch of non desrcript, Branch Devidian like schmucks wearing them long sleeve, beam-me-up-Scotty henleys simply stood around waiting for their orders from, "THE CHURCH".
I swear, if you ask them a question they couldn't handle, they'd pop a cyanide pill on the effing spot then fall back dead leaving you to mouth with or without audio:WTF!
Roku2 is nice
Picked up a Roku2 XS this week and am loving it - I had debated between it and the AppleTV but the ability to pretty much stream anything I want outside of the iTunes & Airplay universe sold me. Plus, I've got way to much Apple stuff otherwise - not having to watch the content that only Mr. Jobs decides appealed to me too.
When considering it vs. the AppleTV, I honestly forgot completely about GoogleTV. Probably because of the high price - but even with GoogleTV at $99, I'd still have gone with the Roku2 because it seems to be more mature than theirs.
AppleTV's Airplay option would be nice, I occasionally use it with my Airport Express for music. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you use Airplay to stream a movie from your iOS device, you can't background that app and use it to surf or check email, can you? That's a major downside to the argument that Airplay takes the place of AppleTV's lack of variety on streaming services.
Picked up a Roku2 XS this week and am loving it - I had debated between it and the AppleTV but the ability to pretty much stream anything I want outside of the iTunes & Airplay universe sold me. Plus, I've got way to much Apple stuff otherwise - not having to watch the content that only Mr. Jobs decides appealed to me too.
When considering it vs. the AppleTV, I honestly forgot completely about GoogleTV. Probably because of the high price - but even with GoogleTV at $99, I'd still have gone with the Roku2 because it seems to be more mature than theirs.
AppleTV's Airplay option would be nice, I occasionally use it with my Airport Express for music. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you use Airplay to stream a movie from your iOS device, you can't background that app and use it to surf or check email, can you? That's a major downside to the argument that Airplay takes the place of AppleTV's lack of variety on streaming services.
We're already seeing a move to SmartTV's from Samsung, Panasonic and LG and Sony, more and more Flat panels are coming with Ethernet Jacks, Wireless built right in and supporting the abover services, and the ability to offer more thru updates, this willeffectively kill the need for an extra box
Meh.
Consumer electronics vendors have little desire to keep this built in software updated and by packaging it into the big-dollar device like an HDTV, you have tied the inevitable, (some might say planned), obsolescence into it instead of a $99 box you can replace with the latest thing every year. (They'd love you to buy a new HDTV every couple of years, thus the big 3DTV push now)
Long winded case in point:
Panasonic BluRay players for the past few years have included their "VieraCast" platform to play streaming services like Amazon, Netflix, Pandora, etc... I bought a pair of them 18 months ago that supported Amazon.com out of the box with the expectation that the "coming soon" boxes on it's interface would actually get new "apps" soon, especially Netflix since they had announced as such at the prior CES. A few months later, they did add Pandora and Netflix.... but Netflix was only compatible with the next model, not mine. Luckily, I bought them at Costco who agreed that it was deceptive of them and let me exchange them for the newer ones that have Netflix as well as Vudu and a couple other items.
Besides a couple bug fix firmware updates, (one of which completely killed Netflix for a week at Christmas until they patched it), they've added zero new features since I bought them. I now consider VieraCast functionality on those players to be frozen and expect no new apps to ever be added. Again, these are about $130 a piece so it's not a huge deal.
I also bought a prior year model Panasonic TV on clearance last year and was glad to not pay any extra for a newer "VieraCast" model since I knew it would be a waste.
This also is why I would never buy an Apple Television set - makes no sense to me.
... oh, and it's the old Netflix interface which does not support TV series with more than 100 episodes, so things like TopGear (UK), Star Trek:TNG, 24, etc... are non-functional to me.
Roku seems to actively be updating their stuff thus my decision to go with them.
Obsolescence
Obsolescence is the new Black (rather, how companies get out of the red and into the black). I would never buy any Smart TV either --- esp if I can't control it without the Smarts. It needs to be able to operate directly, with a DVR etc.
Unlike computers, TVs are kept around 10 to 15 years. I didn't upgrade our CRT to a LCD until the CRT flat out DIED. Some younger people may upgrade more aggressively, but people with families usually have more money overall but have a lot more responsibilities. TVs are for the long haul, like cars.
Apple is more aggressive than most about obsolescence. Many companies let a thing become obsolete by neglect...Apple takes that extra step (if it worked fine before they'll yank out the code and damn well you better upgrade or it'll be only half as functional).
Never buy a smart TV from anyone; goes double for Apple.
Obsolescence is the new Black (rather, how companies get out of the red and into the black). I would never buy any Smart TV either --- esp if I can't control it without the Smarts. It needs to be able to operate directly, with a DVR etc.
Unlike computers, TVs are kept around 10 to 15 years. I didn't upgrade our CRT to a LCD until the CRT flat out DIED. Some younger people may upgrade more aggressively, but people with families usually have more money overall but have a lot more responsibilities. TVs are for the long haul, like cars.
Apple is more aggressive than most about obsolescence. Many companies let a thing become obsolete by neglect...Apple takes that extra step (if it worked fine before they'll yank out the code and damn well you better upgrade or it'll be only half as functional).
Never buy a smart TV from anyone; goes double for Apple.
Where can I buy one?
Nice article but where can I buy one for $99? Logitech still sells them for $249 (was always way too high). For $99, may be worth playing with except I can't find one for that price,
Nice article but where can I buy one for $99? Logitech still sells them for $249 (was always way too high). For $99, may be worth playing with except I can't find one for that price,
True, but for $99 my usual rejection instincts can be overcome!
Qft. Two decades ago I was the manager of a settop box R&D lab, at the very dawn of interactive TV.
We did a lot of consumer testing, and we constantly found that people really are couch potatoes... they don't want to interact any deeper than hitting a few buttons that they can find by feel.
So, two lessons: 1) Remote control design is important. Simple is better. We had quite a few prototypes made. 2) Don't expect viewers to type in searches or click more than one button to interact.
Indeed. I just bought a 32" Sansui LCD TV from Walmart's website for a bedroom. Its description only mentioned the built-in DVD player.
While I was setting it up, I noticed a network port and decided to read the manual (yeah, I know). I was surprised and very pleased to find out that it had both Pandora and Netflix players built-in. Suddenly that TV has become very popular with my wife
Even better, I was able to return the WDTV box I had just bought to use for Netflix.
No, no it´s like this:
In Q1 they sell 10,000 of them, then in Q2 they sell 3,000 but see returns of, say, 5,000 (this number includes returns of sales of Q1 that where returned in Q2 as well as returns in the current Q2).
So you have a negative 2,000 units in Q2.
Agreed.
But personally, I see the Apple TV like an Airport Express but with HDMI and no router... but then, I have no Apple TV so...
Well if you sell 100 units, and 51 get returned. Technically the 51 are no longer sales. So therefore you have had more returns than sales.
OMG! Thank you for a good laugh. They're about as successful as Yugo.
TiVo has been bankrupt for years, and their only profit center is coming from patent law suits and royalties being paid to them from patents. I'm actually surprised Tivo has managed to stay in business this long. Tivo became a generic name like ice cream. People still often say, "I need to Tivo that." But guess what? They don't own a Tivo.
Cable Cards
The irony to all this is that the government stepped in and mandated the epically failed "cable card." What Jobs mentions in that clip really shouldn't be the hurdle it is as far as the go to market portion. What needs to happen is that companies like Apple, Sony, Google, etc. need to give some heavy push back that cable companies are technically breaking the regulations/laws/rules whatever you want to call them concerning the cable cards.
In theory, anyone should be able to get a card from their provider, pop in into any box or cable card ready TV, and skip the cable box all together. The problem is, the cable companies make money renting you a set top box, and deliberately didn't play nice with the cable cards, essentially sabotaging them on purpose with no accountability.
I can see what electronics makers haven't done much push back, because even if they get cable companies to play nice, it still comes down to purchasing a box of some type. This was where Tivo struck out. Most people don't have a few hundred dollars laying around to buy a new box. Paying $10-$15 a month is just more manageable. Then there is the issue of hardware failure. If a third party option dies after the warranty expires, you have to drop another pile of cash on a new box. Leasing, you just swap it out for a new one.
If you wanted a good go to market strategy with these things, partnering with a cable provider isn't a bad idea. Sure there's tons of companies, but there are 3 or 4 who cover huge parts of the country. Motorola has a monopoly as they make the majority of all cable boxes. And they suck! This is where Google should be heading. If they struck deals with Comcast, TWC, etc. the networks would be more prone to play nice with them as well.
The irony to all this is that the government stepped in and mandated the epically failed "cable card." What Jobs mentions in that clip really shouldn't be the hurdle it is as far as the go to market portion. What needs to happen is that companies like Apple, Sony, Google, etc. need to give some heavy push back that cable companies are technically breaking the regulations/laws/rules whatever you want to call them concerning the cable cards.
In theory, anyone should be able to get a card from their provider, pop in into any box or cable card ready TV, and skip the cable box all together. The problem is, the cable companies make money renting you a set top box, and deliberately didn't play nice with the cable cards, essentially sabotaging them on purpose with no accountability.
I can see what electronics makers haven't done much push back, because even if they get cable companies to play nice, it still comes down to purchasing a box of some type. This was where Tivo struck out. Most people don't have a few hundred dollars laying around to buy a new box. Paying $10-$15 a month is just more manageable. Then there is the issue of hardware failure. If a third party option dies after the warranty expires, you have to drop another pile of cash on a new box. Leasing, you just swap it out for a new one.
If you wanted a good go to market strategy with these things, partnering with a cable provider isn't a bad idea. Sure there's tons of companies, but there are 3 or 4 who cover huge parts of the country. Motorola has a monopoly as they make the majority of all cable boxes. And they suck! This is where Google should be heading. If they struck deals with Comcast, TWC, etc. the networks would be more prone to play nice with them as well.
I remember when Google TV was launched the thread about it on MacRumors was loaded with people claiming this was going to "crush" the 
tv.
Oh well.
tv.Oh well.
I remember when Google TV was launched the thread about it on MacRumors was loaded with people claiming this was going to "crush" the
Oh well.
Yeah, who knew, both products failed.
But seriously, this is only the set-top box from logitech. I wonder how all the TVs with integrated GoogleTV are doing. Google TV is more than just the Revue.
Personally, I find both my PS3 and my LG Blu-ray with DLNA support to be plenty. I don't need either AppleTV (especially Apple TV with its iTunes lock down) or GoogleTV. If want to access the Internet, that's what the MBA is for.
At least a TV with the GoogleTV software built-in still works as a TV.Yeah, who knew, both products failed.
But seriously, this is only the set-top box from logitech. I wonder how all the TVs with integrated GoogleTV are doing. Google TV is more than just the Revue.
I bought a PS3 mostly to use as a Blu-ray player and I've been somewhat disappointed with the interface, esp. it's incessant prompts to connect to the Internet. Yeah, it works as a Blu-ray player, but it's obviously a game console first and Blu-ray player second.
Most of what it can do as an entertainment console requires a PSN account and clearly Sony can't be trusted with that kind of information.
Hum... I use mine exclusively as an entertainment console and haven't signed in to PSN in years (literally). Music/Video/Pictures streaming does not require a PSN account at all.