Lombard booting options

[mectojic]

Question is in the title. Please don’t answer if you haven’t specifically tried this on Lombard 333 or 400.

Main thing I’m interested in is whether Lombard can boot from USB. It’s the first PowerBook with USB, but apparently runs a slightly different boot picker? And has a SCSI port despite being New World Rom.

Quite an interesting transitional fossil I’m about to pick up

 

[Macbookprodude]

Did you try the option key at start ip
After the bong ? Pismo shows a boot selector, so I am sure the Lombard will also.

 

[AphoticD]

The Lombard has no option-key boot selector, but if you drop into open firmware (cmd-opt-O-F), then enter ‘multi-boot’, you’ll see the boot selector menu (same as the PDQ). Unfortunately USB devices are not recognized here.

 

[AphoticD]

Curiously I tried the USB install route on my Lombards and found that Open Firmware does not recognize the usb disk device at all (no visible usb > /disk@1 in the ‘dev / ls’ output).

Also, XPostFacto does not recognize the install USB as a bootable device.

Excuse the poor image here. My 2nd Lombard suffers from LCD panel deterioration.

 

[mectojic]

Curiously I tried the USB install route on my Lombards and found that Open Firmware does not recognize the usb disk device at all (no visible usb > /disk@1 in the ‘dev / ls’ output).

Also, XPostFacto does not recognize the install USB as a bootable device.

Excuse the poor image here. My 2nd Lombard suffers from LCD panel deterioration.

Thanks for this helpful information. That's a shame, as I find USBs more reliable than CDs in general.

I want to put 10.4 onto the Lombard, I think my easiest way will be to install 10.3 from CD onto a partition, then use SuperDuper from the live 10.3 install to clone an installed 10.4 USB onto the second partition.

(I could also use XPostFacto with the Tiger CDs, but that requires setting up all my Tiger optimisations from scratch again).

 

[AphoticD]

I have one Lombard with Panther and another with Jag. I was planning to install Tiger via XPostFacto4 on the Jaguar installation, but it decided to fall over and stop booting. So I am presently reinstalling OS 9.2.2 universal from CD and will try XPostFacto4 via OS 9 to install from a retail Tiger DVD.

The hard drive is also very easy to remove in these PowerBooks if cloning from another Mac is easier than installing 10.3 first.

 

[weckart]

Lombard is an incomplete transition to New World Macs with a flaky firmware. It is the equivalent of the B/W G3. Neither can boot from USB (nor FW for the B/W).

The Lombard can boot from internal SCSI, which shows it still has a foot in the Old World Mac camp.

 

[galgot]

Lombard can netboot too. If you have another Mac on which to set up BootMania. I had one booting on the first Panther CD install for a try. But can be done with 10.4 disks images too.

Btw, sorry for OT, but anyone knows if there is a way to repair these Lombards keyboards ? I have one 333Mhz model in nice shape, with two defect keyboards one with Z S X dead keys, and the other with the O L / keys dead...
Seems the design of the connector ribbon is very bad, it's much too long and has to be twisted tight to fit in, and after some time it breaks connections.

 

[AphoticD]

So I tried installing Tiger from DVD via XPostFacto4 in Mac OS 9, but was greeted with the gray circle with a line through it every time. I then tried spoofing the machine id as a PowerBook3,1 via OF but then it refused to boot at all...

In the end I took my own advice and just removed the HDD, hooked it up to my G5 via a USB adapter and then used Disk Utility to clone a clean 10.4.11 installation onto the 6GB HDD. I then copied Mac OS 9.2.2 System Folder and Applications (Mac OS 9) onto the Tiger drive to be able to boot between OS 9 and X.

While I had it open I also upgraded the RAM from 128MB (2x64) to 320MB (after hunting around for a low density 256MB SODIMM).

Tiger then started up promptly on first boot. No problems.

 

[weckart]

Lombard can netboot too. If you have another Mac on which to set up BootMania. I had one booting on the first Panther CD install for a try. But can be done with 10.4 disks images too.

Btw, sorry for OT, but anyone knows if there is a way to repair these Lombards keyboards ? I have one 333Mhz model in nice shape, with two defect keyboards one with Z S X dead keys, and the other with the O L / keys dead...
Seems the design of the connector ribbon is very bad, it's much too long and has to be twisted tight to fit in, and after some time it breaks connections.

Whenever I have had deadkeys, I have taken the keycaps off and looked below for spillages. I managed to clean a G4 DLSD keyboard of a bad coca cola spill. About 10 keys weren't working and I revived 9 but had to admit defeat with the backspace key, so it is possible, just not guaranteed.

If that doesn't work, then a replacement is your next best option. If a trace is broken, then it is difficult enough to even spot, let alone fix. Not sure you are going to find a keyboard ribbon on its to own to attempt soldering on.

 

[galgot]

Whenever I have had deadkeys, I have taken the keycaps off and looked below for spillages. I managed to clean a G4 DLSD keyboard of a bad coca cola spill. About 10 keys weren't working and I revived 9 but had to admit defeat with the backspace key, so it is possible, just not guaranteed.

If that doesn't work, then a replacement is your next best option. If a trace is broken, then it is difficult enough to even spot, let alone fix. Not sure you are going to find a keyboard ribbon on its to own to attempt soldering on.

Yes. I think it's definitively the ribbons. One of them works, but only if plugged but not placed in the main frame and hold in a certain angle so that the ribbon is not too twisted... :/
Will try to find a replacement.

 

[mectojic]

So I tried installing Tiger from DVD via XPostFacto4 in Mac OS 9, but was greeted with the gray circle with a line through it every time. I then tried spoofing the machine id as a PowerBook3,1 via OF but then it refused to boot at all...

In the end I took my own advice and just removed the HDD, hooked it up to my G5 via a USB adapter and then used Disk Utility to clone a clean 10.4.11 installation onto the 6GB HDD. I then copied Mac OS 9.2.2 System Folder and Applications (Mac OS 9) onto the Tiger drive to be able to boot between OS 9 and X.

While I had it open I also upgraded the RAM from 128MB (2x64) to 320MB (after hunting around for a low density 256MB SODIMM).

Tiger then started up promptly on first boot. No problems.

What is the USB / hard drive adapter you have there? That looks pretty handy.

 

[AphoticD]

What is the USB / hard drive adapter you have there? That looks pretty handy.

It’s a newertech usb 3.0 universal drive adapter. It was a bit pricey when I ordered it from OWC a few years back, but I have seen generic ones on eBay for around $25.

It does SATA and PATA 3.5” and 2.5”. The 2.5” (44pin) side is powered over USB which is handy, otherwise it includes a transformer for molex and SATA power.

 

[Macbookprodude]

Lombard is an incomplete transition to New World Macs with a flaky firmware. It is the equivalent of the B/W G3. Neither can boot from USB (nor FW for the B/W).

The Lombard can boot from internal SCSI, which shows it still has a foot in the Old World Mac camp.

I thought Wallstreet was. If memory serves correct, the Lombard was before Pismo.

 

[B S Magnet]

I thought Wallstreet was. If memory serves correct, the Lombard was before Pismo.

Wallstreet is Old World. PDQ, succeeding Wallstreet, is Old World. Lombard succeeded PDQ.

If the machine has ADB and/or a floppy drive OEM, then it’s generally Old World. If the machine lacks a floppy and has USB OEM, then it is generally New World.

 

[mectojic]

Lombard is an incomplete transition to New World Macs with a flaky firmware. It is the equivalent of the B/W G3. Neither can boot from USB (nor FW for the B/W).

The Lombard can boot from internal SCSI, which shows it still has a foot in the Old World Mac camp.

How does one boot from SCSI – and what sort of (affordable) cables and accessories would I need to allow this?

(Forgive my ignorance - does the ability to boot from SCSI also allow you to boot older versions of OS?)

 

[B S Magnet]

How does one boot from SCSI – and what sort of (affordable) cables and accessories would I need to allow this?

You would need to have a SCSI HDD. Within this, there a few SCSI receptacle form factors to be mindful of when trying to find the right internal cable to connect that SCSI HDD to either the board or a to PCI/NuBus SCSI card. I’m not sure what new-old stock remains for old SCSI HDDs in 2021, or SCSI cables, for that matter.

(Forgive my ignorance - does the ability to boot from SCSI also allow you to boot older versions of OS?)

No. The BootROM on Old World ROM Macs is broadly what determines which versions of Mac OS will boot on an old, pre-1999 era Mac. It’s just that, generally speaking, older Macs able to boot into System 6, System 7, and Mac OS 8 could also be equipped with a SCSI bus.

 

[repairedCheese]

How does one boot from SCSI – and what sort of (affordable) cables and accessories would I need to allow this?

SCSI to SD Card Adapter -50 Pin SCSI Hard Disk -US SCSI2SD 3.5" Includes 50-pin

Emulates up to 4 SCSI devices

www.amazon.com

Now I don't know if this would support your particular version of scsi, and there are a lot, but i've heard fairly good things about sd to scsi adaptors. So, there are alternatives to very old laptop drives.

 

[weckart]

How does one boot from SCSI – and what sort of (affordable) cables and accessories would I need to allow this?

The two most practical options would be a SCSI optical drive (if your internal drive was broken) or to put the notebook in SCSI Disk Mode, which preceded FW TDM.

Target Disk Mode - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[AphoticD]

How does one boot from SCSI – and what sort of (affordable) cables and accessories would I need to allow this?

(Forgive my ignorance - does the ability to boot from SCSI also allow you to boot older versions of OS?)

I’m not sure about the SCSI hardware as I don’t have any myself, but it won’t affect bootable OS options.

There is a thread on the forum here which shows the Lombard is capable of booting Mac OS 8.1 (8.6 is officially the oldest supported)

Mac OS 8.1 goes Bronze

...that is, Lombard :D I used the restore disc for the Bondi Blue iMac since that's the only New World machine shipped with Mac OS 8.1 AFAIK, replaced Mac OS ROM with the one supplied with the Lombard's original install (version 2.3.1), deleted the iMac ATI Driver extension and copied...

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