Long commuting vehicles, ideas, feedback.

[kilcher]

I commute 50 miles each way to work. Considered 2 cars - the 2011 Chevy Cruze and the 2012 Ford Focus hatch. Drove both and ended up going with the Focus. The Cruze is a little more my style but I ended up going with the Focus. Seemed a tad bit quieter on the inside and the ride/look was more sporty. Basically found it more fun to drive.

Keep in mind, a hybrid's main advantage is in city driving. On the highway it's not so much of a gap. My Focus has 28/38 on the sticker and I'm averaging 35.5 with about 80/20 highway/city driving.

We had 2 cars - a 2005 Tahoe which my wife drove to and from work (maybe 10 miles a day) and a 2010 Equinox which I drove with the commute above. My wife figured up by us getting rid of her Tahoe, her taking my Equinox, and me getting a car that got 36 MPG's, at $4 per gallon we'd save $270 per month. Not bad.

 

[SidewaysTakumi]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_3_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8G4 Safari/6533.18.5)

I'm gonna put in a vote for a Honda Fit. I love mine. Good gas mileage, cheap, reliable, and lots of cargo and passenger room.

And btw in my manual I average 35mpg with wider tires and an exhaust. Before that, I was getting 38-40mpg often.

Automatic gets even better mpg on hwy.
Check them out.

 

[quagmire]

don't know exactly what you want, but it looks like a redesign to me. yeah, the front of the car is fairly similar. the back looks different, but the real features of the redesign are all on the inside.

The eco assist gauges on the dashboard, econ mode, the i-Mid display with USB iPod integration, bluetooth hands free & audio link, and redesigned controls on the steering wheel are just some of the features.

The rear is the biggest difference between the 2011 and 2012. The front and side profile are practically identical. The interior is still very similar. It has new features sure, but that doesn't mean the car's design was redesigned. It's a heavy mid-cycle enhancement at best. Honda needed to do better. The previous gen's design has been around for 6 years. It hasn't aged well, IMHO. But, Honda sticks to the same tired design for 2012 MY.

Toyota and Honda need to get off their butts because with the increased competition from the Koreans, Ford, and GM, people are not going to buy an old and tired design simply because, " It's a Honda" or " It's a Toyota".

These are redesigns.

vs

vs

i love the two tiered dash design. it looks awkward at first, but it's great when you are actually driving.. lets you easily see how fast you are going without having to stare down between the wheel.

HUD is better. Still surprised it hasn't become more common in cars these days.

 

[zioxide]

The rear is the biggest difference between the 2011 and 2012. The front and side profile are practically identical. The interior is still very similar. It has new features sure, but that doesn't mean the car's design was redesigned. It's a heavy mid-cycle enhancement at best. Honda needed to do better. The previous gen's design has been around for 6 years. It hasn't aged well, IMHO. But, Honda sticks to the same tired design for 2012 MY.

Toyota and Honda need to get off their butts because with the increased competition from the Koreans, Ford, and GM, people are not going to buy an old and tired design simply because, " It's a Honda" or " It's a Toyota".

These are redesigns.

The focus definitely looks different, but the Malibu is pretty similar.. the lights are just a little more stretched and the grill a little smaller/with more chrome.

I think we're arguing semantics here though, the 2012 civic is a redesign by definition, they just didn't make as many changes as some other redesigns.

HUD is better. Still surprised it hasn't become more common in cars these days.

Image

I think that would be kind of awkward in a car. Maybe thats just be, or just because I have never used it. Definitely interesting though

 

[quagmire]

The focus definitely looks different, but the Malibu is pretty similar.. the lights are just a little more stretched and the grill a little smaller/with more chrome.

I think we're arguing semantics here though, the 2012 civic is a redesign by definition, they just didn't make as many changes as some other redesigns.

Nothing wrong with an evolutionary redesign( 2013 Malibu) vs a revolutionary redesign( 2012 Focus), but I guess Honda created a new type with the Civic being an identical redesign?

It's still a heavy mid-cycle enhancement to me than a full on redesign.

 

[steve2112]

I always want to know how these people are driving the vehicles, are the cars broken in yet( in terms of owners complaining about mileage), etc? Reviewers should tell us how fast they were going, the environment they were driving in, etc. Saying you got 32 MPG doesn't mean squat if we don't know if you were in stop and go, country roads with few stoplights, or mostly HWY.

You can't blame the car for not getting 42 MPG if you are going 80 MPH+( above 65 MPH the drag on the car really kills MPG's), mashing the gas pedal,

Spot the 2012 MY Civic.

I really want to know the deinition Honda uses for redesign.... That's a MCE/refresh tops.

Obviously, how it is driven will affect the mpg. That's why I often don't pay attention to mileage from an auto mag test. Some of them even include the track tests in the mileage. With Autoblog, they had long term vehicles, or at least more than a day or two. The discussion was basically that the Cruze Eco could get close to the numbers of a TDI (low 40s), but you had to work at it by not speeding and stuff like that. With the TDI, they said they could flog it and still get 40s and with effort, could get near 50.

Oh yeah, I agree with you on the Civic. Yeah, it has a new engine (finally with a bit of torque!) and slightly changed interior and exterior, it is far from "all new". It's like the CRV, though. It doesn't matter what they do, it will still sell like crazy. The CRV has been basically the same since 2006 while most competitors are all new, yet it still outsells them.

 

[quagmire]

Obviously, how it is driven will affect the mpg. That's why I often don't pay attention to mileage from an auto mag test. Some of them even include the track tests in the mileage. With Autoblog, they had long term vehicles, or at least more than a day or two. The discussion was basically that the Cruze Eco could get close to the numbers of a TDI (low 40s), but you had to work at it by not speeding and stuff like that. With the TDI, they said they could flog it and still get 40s and with effort, could get near 50.

Yeah, diesels definitely have an advantage in terms of highway fuel economy. But, you also pay a bit of a premium to get a diesel engine vs gas that the fuel savings in the diesel will take awhile to pay back. I also still question VW's reliability. Anything German, I would be weary about long term reliability. My dads E46 3 series had quite a bit of issues( water pump, squealing pulley, rough idle) and all of those were out of warranty so they were expensive to replace and fix. My dads new E90 335xi though has been solid with 44,000 miles on it so far. Haven't had the dreaded HPFP failure yet( knocks on wood).

Thanks to my dads BMW's, Xenon headlights are pretty important in my next car.

Oh yeah, I agree with you on the Civic. Yeah, it has a new engine (finally with a bit of torque!) and slightly changed interior and exterior, it is far from "all new". It's like the CRV, though. It doesn't matter what they do, it will still sell like crazy. The CRV has been basically the same since 2006 while most competitors are all new, yet it still outsells them.

I have always maintained if this had a Toyota or Honda badge, it would have sold.

Thanks to Toyota and Honda, Americans passion for the car has died. It's now just another appliance just needed to get between points A and B.....

 

[neko girl]

Thanks to Toyota and Honda, Americans passion for the car has died. It's now just another appliance just needed to get between points A and B.....

Actually you can thank insurance companies, the DMV, SMOG tests, and prohibitive body & engine repair work costs for that. Has nothing to do with Toyota or Honda.

 

[quagmire]

Actually you can thank insurance companies, the DMV, SMOG tests, and prohibitive body & engine repair work costs for that. Has nothing to do with Toyota or Honda.

I doubt insurance companies, the DMV, CAFE, etc forced Honda and Toyota to put out boring/bland looking vehicles. Toyota did have the Supra and Honda had the S2000 and NSX, but they killed them....

American car companies were not doing much better, but the public didn't demand design anymore.... Just wanted reliability and fuel economy...

 

[steve2112]

Anything German, I would be weary about long term reliability. My dads E46 3 series had quite a bit of issues( water pump, squealing pulley, rough idle) and all of those were out of warranty so they were expensive to replace and fix. My dads new E90 335xi though has been solid with 44,000 miles on it so far. Haven't had the dreaded HPFP failure yet( knocks on wood).

I have always maintained if this had a Toyota or Honda badge, it would have sold.


It's now just another appliance just needed to get between points A and B.....

Before I bought my Mazda 6, I walked away from a BMW 328 because of this. It was four years old with about 70k miles and was a good deal on price. The more I started thinking about those repair costs, and I walked away. It was a blast to drive, but I just didn't think it was worth it. As for the diesels, I agree. With modern gas engines improving their mileage, the gap is shrinking. With diesel costing around 20 cents per gallon more, I really don't think it's worth it. I do have to admit that the diesel Cruze is looking interesting, though.

As for your other point: have you seen the Honda Crosstour? Not quite as ugly, but it still sells. I agree with your point. Slap a Honda or Toyota badge on the Aztek and it would sell.

 

[quagmire]

Before I bought my Mazda 6, I walked away from a BMW 328 because of this. It was four years old with about 70k miles and was a good deal on price. The more I started thinking about those repair costs, and I walked away. It was a blast to drive, but I just didn't think it was worth it. As for the diesels, I agree. With modern gas engines improving their mileage, the gap is shrinking. With diesel costing around 20 cents per gallon more, I really don't think it's worth it. I do have to admit that the diesel Cruze is looking interesting, though.

The 328i wouldn't be so bad compared to the 335i. The N52 has been reliable, it doesn't have the complexity of the N54 since it is naturally aspirated vs Twin Turbocharged, etc. Plus, the automatic is a GM unit.

But yeah, if anything did break it would be $$$$.

As for your other point: have you seen the Honda Crosstour? Not quite as ugly, but it still sells. I agree with your point. Slap a Honda or Toyota badge on the Aztek and it would sell.

The Crosstour and the Toyota Venza are Honda's and Toyota's Pontiac Aztek's and they are selling pretty decently. The Nissan Juke is also selling pretty decently as well. It's a hit in Japan.

 

[iJohnHenry]

It's now just another appliance just needed to get between points A and B.....

Now??

I thought that's all it was supposed to be, transportation.

An AM radio was nice, and the FM break-through, OMG.

Not a living room, dining room, bedroom, den, penis extender, etc.

 

[yg17]

The Aztek was put out at a time when American car companies were producing unreliable garbage. That's why it didn't sell. People might overlook ugliness for a reliable Honda or Toyota. Not for an American car.

 

[quagmire]

Now??

I thought that's all it was supposed to be, transportation.

An AM radio was nice, and the FM break-through, OMG.

Not a living room, dining room, bedroom, den, penis extender, etc.

Of course the car is transportation. But, back in the day people cared about design. People were passionate about them. They went on Sunday strolls that didn't have points A and B. They just drove around.

You can see this passion with Apple and its users. Apple is passionate about how its product looks, the material its made out of, and the quality of the products. A lot of people who buy Apple's also care about the design and quality of their Mac, iPhone, iPod, or iPad. That is the passion Americans used to have for their cars. Now they are into boring and bland cars. They are willing to drive whatever that gets them to point B reliably that uses as little gas as possible. In the computer world, they are Dell users. Don't care if their computer is a cheap piece of plastic with no design, it's just an appliance to them.

This is a car back in the day when we cared about the design....

Here is today.

No passion went into that design, but it sells because the consumer has lost their passion for design as well.

 

[zioxide]

Nothing wrong with an evolutionary redesign( 2013 Malibu) vs a revolutionary redesign( 2012 Focus), but I guess Honda created a new type with the Civic being an identical redesign?

It's still a heavy mid-cycle enhancement to me than a full on redesign.

what? seems like you are just biased against Honda. the new civic is exactly the same as that Malibu.. an evolutionary redesign.

Actually you can thank insurance companies, the DMV, SMOG tests, and prohibitive body & engine repair work costs for that. Has nothing to do with Toyota or Honda.

Yup.

Just wanted reliability and fuel economy..

as long as the oil companies continue to rape the consumers with their pricing and profits, people aren't going to want to pay more for fancy looking cars. they want something reliable and cheap to run because they are already paying an arm and a leg for it.

Now??

I thought that's all it was supposed to be, transportation.

An AM radio was nice, and the FM break-through, OMG.

Not a living room, dining room, bedroom, den, penis extender, etc.

you see those guys with the huge ass trucks on lift kits though (and the people who drive Hummers).. they still think a car can enlarge their dick though.

 

[renewed]

No passion went into that design, but it sells because the consumer has lost their passion for design as well.

IMO there are still cars being produced with passion backing them. An example:

 

[steve2112]

Now??

I thought that's all it was supposed to be, transportation.

An AM radio was nice, and the FM break-through, OMG.

Not a living room, dining room, bedroom, den, penis extender, etc.

Uh, no. Some us actually enjoy driving. The sound of a Mustang or Corvette v8 as it approaches redline is beautiful. I love the feel of g forces pressing me into the seat as I come blasting out of a corner. If I have to look at a car every day for several years, I want to like the way it looks. If I drive something every day, I want to enjoy it, not view it as another chore that has to be done. I like driving, and I don't want to ruin the experience by eating, yakking on the phone, shaving, or reading while doing it.

Plus, look at the older designs compared to today. Most people can barley tell a Camry apart from an Accord. Now compare those to say, a 1957 Chevy or a 1930s Duesenberg. The older cars were practically works of art. New cars are for the most part appliances with all the style of a microwave.

 

[quagmire]

what? seems like you are just biased against Honda. the new civic is exactly the same as that Malibu.. an evolutionary redesign.

The new Civic is about 90% if not more the same as the 2011 Civic. More about the 2013 Malibu's design changed compared to the 2011/2012 Malibu. The 2012 Civic shares the same grille, headlights, and side profile of the 2011 Civic. The only thing different in design about the 2012 Civic is the rear. It's not an evolutionary redesign. It's a heavy mid-cycle enhancement. It practically looks identical to the 2011 Civic.

The 2013 Malibu has a smaller squarer grille which gives it a more sporty look compared to the rounder bigger one of the 2011 Malibu which went after the luxury look. The headlights again are designed to give it a sporty over luxury look compared to the 2011's. The bumper has more lines and edges again adding to the 2013's aggressive sporty look. The 2011's bumper is smoother. The hood also has more lines and edges. There are noticeable design changes in the 2013 Malibu. While its design evolved from the 2011 Malibu, you can clearly tell a 2013 Malibu apart from the 2011 Malibu. You can't say the same for the 2012 Civic.

IMO there are still cars being produced with passion backing them. An example:

The passion is starting to come back to the American automakers. Bob Lutz did wonders at GM. After reading his book, " Car guys vs Bean Counters", it sheds light at how bad it was at GM.

 

[zioxide]

The new Civic is about 90% if not more the same as the 2011 Civic. More about the 2013 Malibu's design changed compared to the 2011/2012 Malibu. The 2012 Civic shares the same grille, headlights, and side profile of the 2011 Civic. The only thing different in design about the 2012 Civic is the rear. It's not an evolutionary redesign. It's a heavy mid-cycle enhancement. It practically looks identical to the 2011 Civic.

The 2013 Malibu has a smaller squarer grille which gives it a more sporty look compared to the rounder bigger one of the 2011 Malibu which went after the luxury look. The headlights again are designed to give it a sporty over luxury look compared to the 2011's. The bumper has more lines and edges again adding to the 2013's aggressive sporty look. The 2011's bumper is smoother. The hood also has more lines and edges. There are noticeable design changes in the 2013 Malibu. While its design evolved from the 2011 Malibu, you can clearly tell a 2013 Malibu apart from the 2011 Malibu. You can't say the same for the 2012 Civic.

You pick apart the tiniest little changes in the Malibu and that's an evolutionary redesign... but the Civic has the same exact types of changes and that's just a "mid cycle enhancement"? lol. doesn't makes sense to me.

Open up both those pics in to separate tabs and compare them. You can't possibly tell me that they are "exactly" the same, because they aren't. There are a lot of slight changes, just like on the Malibu. The front end on the 11 is way more square.. they rounded off the corners a bit on the 12, changed the bumper, changed the grill and angled the lights a bit more. and the side of the car is a little bit angled as it goes towards the back to accent the new rear. You can clearly see that they are two different years of cars just like the Malibu.

 

[iJohnHenry]

Uh, no. Some us actually enjoy driving.

I love driving, but I don't mistake it as a replacement for an arcade game. I own my vehicle, it doesn't own me. (Has the blemishes to prove it, all tight parking problems).

This is serious. People get hurt/killed by others enjoying the visceral thrill of roaring about like ninnies.

If you want to get your jollies that way, go to a facility like Mosport, that allows you to let it all hang out.

Don't do it on major thoroughfares with dozens of other vehicles around you.

 

[wvuwhat]

don't know exactly what you want, but it looks like a redesign to me. yeah, the front of the car is fairly similar. the back looks different, but the real features of the redesign are all on the inside.

The eco assist gauges on the dashboard, econ mode, the i-Mid display with USB iPod integration, bluetooth hands free & audio link, and redesigned controls on the steering wheel are just some of the features.

2011

2012

i love the two tiered dash design. it looks awkward at first, but it's great when you are actually driving.. lets you easily see how fast you are going without having to stare down between the wheel.

But, everything I have seen has RIPPED the new Civic. I loved my 03' Civic and my current 08' Accord. But, I wouldn't get the new Civic.

If I were in the market now and wanted a work car with a short commute, I'd buy a new Sonata. But, in your situation I'd go with an Elantra. They are both pretty sharp looking cars IMHO.

 

[quagmire]

Open up both those pics in to separate tabs and compare them. You can't possibly tell me that they are "exactly" the same, because they aren't. There are a lot of slight changes, just like on the Malibu. The front end on the 11 is way more square.. they rounded off the corners a bit on the 12, changed the bumper, changed the grill and angled the lights a bit more. and the side of the car is a little bit angled as it goes towards the back to accent the new rear. You can clearly see that they are two different years of cars just like the Malibu.

Still not seeing it to justify the term redesign. It's a heavy mid-cycle enhancement for me still.

I love driving, but I don't mistake it as a replacement for an arcade game. I own my vehicle, it doesn't own me. (Has the blemishes to prove it, all tight parking problems).

This is serious. People get hurt/killed by others enjoying the visceral thrill of roaring about like ninnies.

If you want to get your jollies that way, go to a facility like Mosport, that allows you to let it all hang out.

Don't do it on major thoroughfares with dozens of other vehicles around you.

How did you get, " I drive like a reckless idiot" from, " I like driving and hearing the sound of the engine"?

You don't have the push the Chevy Small Block V8 or the Mustang's 5.0 V8 that hard to enjoy the sound of it. I drive my dads 335xi and the N54 TT DI Inline 6 sounds great even at just 2,500 RPM. Does it sound better at its 7000 RPM redline? Sure, but I get plenty satisfaction from hearing it at 2,500 RPM. Same with the Corvette. I was just driving at around the dealerships lot as a lot attendant and the sound of the LS2, LS3, and LS7 was great even at idle to 2000 RPM going about 10-15 MPH on the lot.

 

[iJohnHenry]

How did you get, " I drive like a reckless idiot" from, " I like driving"?

First, I did not quote you.

Second, you're paraphrasing what I did say.

Third, because after Steve said "I like driving" it was immediately followed by "The sound of a Mustang or Corvette v8 as it approaches redline is beautiful. I love the feel of g forces pressing me into the seat as I come blasting out of a corner."

 

[quagmire]

First, I did not quote you.

Second, you're paraphrasing what I did say.

Third, because after Steve said "I like driving" it was immediately followed by "The sound of a Mustang or Corvette v8 as it approaches redline is beautiful. I love the feel of g forces pressing me into the seat as I come blasting out of a corner."

Yeah, I was talking on the phone when reading that and replying to you so I missed those parts.


You gotta admit the Small Block V8 sounds awesome....

 

[steve2112]

First, I did not quote you.

Second, you're paraphrasing what I did say.

Third, because after Steve said "I like driving" it was immediately followed by "The sound of a Mustang or Corvette v8 as it approaches redline is beautiful. I love the feel of g forces pressing me into the seat as I come blasting out of a corner."

Ever heard of autocross?

Wile on the open road, the only accident I've had in 20 plus years involved a suicidal deer. I know my limits, I know my car's limits, and unlike what seems to be the majority of American drivers, I actually pay attention while driving. I don't do street racing, and the idiots who do annoy the hell out of me. There is a place for that stuff and it damn sure isn't public roads jammed with traffic.