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wilberforce

macrumors 68030
Original poster
Aug 15, 2020
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SF Bay Area
I generally do not buy AppleCare+ (although I have occasionally), and thus sometimes have had to pay for replacements or repairs myself. I thought it might be interesting to add up the total amount of AppleCare+ cost that I have not purchased over the last ten years on Apple products, and compare with the cost I have incurred by not having AppleCare+:

These are the Apple products I and my wife have purchased and their U.S. AppleCare+ costs (that I did not purchase), over the last ten years:

Two 27"5k iMacs: $338
Two MacBook Pros: $558
Three iPhones: $447
One iPhone Pro Max: $199
Three iPad Minis: $207
One iPad: $69
One 11" iPad Pro: $129
Three AirPods: $87
Three Apple Watches: $237
Total: $2,271
~10% sales tax (California): $227
TOTAL AppleCare+ costs not purchased in 10 years: $2,498 $2,271

Total expenses due to not having AppleCare+:
Smashed iPad Mini 1: $380
Less the AppleCare+ damage deductible avoided: -$49
iPhone 6s battery replacement: $29
MacBook Pro DIY battery replacement: $50
TOTAL extra expenses due to not having AppleCare+: $410

Net savings over 10 years by not purchasing AppleCare+: $2,088 $1,861


Of course, maybe I am just extraordinarily lucky and could have a big repair or replacement cost tomorrow which would tilt the numbers the other way, but in any case it is interesting how the AppleCare+ costs can add up over a long period.

Anyone else added up the AppleCare+ costs they have, or have not, paid over a long period? And compared with repair costs paid (or avoided)?

Edit: corrected, sales tax does not apply for AppleCare+
 
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I think how much Apple Care+ is worth it depends on a lot of factors, starting with how healthy your current account balance is. I suspect many, myself included, would be ok without it, yet I buy it anyway. Peace of mind. Dealing with known unknowns (and perhaps unknown unknowns also). My expectations of Apple are high should I encounter a problem.
 
So the point of your post is to discourage people from buying Applecare because you have saved so much money over the years. You did say maybe you were possibly extraordinarily lucky but the thread implications are that you saved enough to buy a new Mac and how much money did others save by not buying Applecare.

However have you ever stopped to think what the outcome of your post is for others?

I keep seeing posts about Applecare and there are always posts about how they never get it and save money and therefore people should not buy it.

That is great they and you have had positive experience not buying Applecare but I bet there are an equal amount of people who wish they did because of an expensive repair.

I don’t care one way or the other because I have no skin in this game. But I hate when people give advice or make posts which encourage a behavior that could hurt those they are giving advice too in the long run.

The honest truth is you have no idea about anyone other than your own experience and it may not extrapolate out as you may think. And if the result of your post or comments lead people to the conclusion that Applecare is a waste of money they may not purchase based on your experience. Problem is that you don’t know what is going to happen to them and there is a chance that you are wrong. There is a chance that they may not have your luck and for most new macs there is a lot of tech that is not easily or cheaply available to fix. What if they have a screen issue or an accident. What if the ram is bad or ssd is a lemon? Then they will be out more than the cost of Applecare.

This is more relevant to brand new machines, specially M1!!
 
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However have you ever stopped to think what the outcome of your post is for others?
I believe that was the exact intent of the post. Thinking of others, not deciding for them.

How about my experience over the last 11 years:
I have spent $17,550,000US on Apple product purchases and not purchased AppleCare for any of them.
I have spent $24,956US on repair costs.
AppleCare would have cost about $4,905,000US.
I have saved about $4,880,044 by NOT purchasing AppleCare+.
This does not include the $49 service cost for repairs. So, I actually saved even more.

To break even I would have to incur a bit over 30% breakage rate.
For a single device it may make sense to purchase AppleCare+ for ease of mind.
 
I mean, it's insurance. Like any insurance, it's not worth it for the vast majority of people on long term. But you can't know for sure if you'll be the lucky one or not. My apartment has never been flooded, that doesn't mean that my home insurance that I paid all these years is not worth it.

The repair fees for Apple products are very expensive, and for many people, the peace of mind of having only to pay a deductible for their expensive device is worth it, no matter if they needed it afterward or not. I agree that it's not for everything and everybody, but I don't think that the general conclusion is that it's not worth it for everyone. I've seen many people on MR that would have gladly paid for Apple Care in the first place if they knew what happened after.
 
I believe that was the exact intent of the post. Thinking of others, not deciding for them.

How about my experience over the last 11 years:
I have spent $17,550,000US on Apple product purchases and not purchased AppleCare for any of them.
I have spent $24,956US on repair costs.
AppleCare would have cost about $4,905,000US.
I have saved about $4,880,044 by NOT purchasing AppleCare+.
This does not include the $49 service cost for repairs. So, I actually saved even more.

To break even I would have to incur a bit over 30% breakage rate.
For a single device it may make sense to purchase AppleCare+ for ease of mind.
Wow okay. I was talking about the average person and not a business.

Interesting perspective though. If we could get a bigger sample and see over time like you posted then by the numbers we could make a more informed decision.

I am all for more information.

However we are still talking about probabilities and for your case I am sure you could have purchased cheaper insurance either from Apple as a business customer or insurance from another vendor. As a business it is pretty risky not to have any type of insurance on deployed machines.

For the average person this example is not very relevant but still interesting none the less.
 
Interesting post. I could probably do a similar calculation, and I'd have similar savings.

Not purchasing AppleCare+ works for me, and for how I use my devices, but as others have pointed out it is insurance and like all insurance it comes down to how comfortable you are with covering costs for these kinds of costs if and when they do occur.
 
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I believe that was the exact intent of the post. Thinking of others, not deciding for them.

How about my experience over the last 11 years:
I have spent $17,550,000US on Apple product purchases and not purchased AppleCare for any of them.
I have spent $24,956US on repair costs.
AppleCare would have cost about $4,905,000US.
I have saved about $4,880,044 by NOT purchasing AppleCare+.
This does not include the $49 service cost for repairs. So, I actually saved even more.

To break even I would have to incur a bit over 30% breakage rate.
For a single device it may make sense to purchase AppleCare+ for ease of mind.
You purchased the equivalent of 10,000 computers, presumably used by employees who don't have to pay for them (and who treat them accordingly), and you've only had to spend the equivalent of about 15 or so replacements (0.2%) or $3/machine over 11 years? Excuse me if that sounds less than believable.

I'm guessing you've got at least 20% of your team putting up with imperfect/damaged hardware that most consumers wouldn't tolerate. Additionally, you probably have an IT department that fixes stuff and that labor time cost needs to be counted against your overall cost. Finally, who knows about your company's e-waste protocols - you may be discarding computers at "EOL" that could've been salvaged with AC+ coverage.
 
Excuse me if that sounds less than believable.
None the less, it is true.

I'm guessing you've got at least 20% of your team putting up with imperfect/damaged hardware that most consumers wouldn't tolerate.
You would be incorrect.

Additionally, you probably have an IT department that fixes stuff and that labor time cost needs to be counted against your overall cost.
Again incorrect.

Finally, who knows about your company's e-waste protocols - you may be discarding computers at "EOL" that could've been salvaged with AC+ coverage.
Handled by Diamond Assets: https://diamondassets.com/
Now, you know.
 
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As a business it is pretty risky not to have any type of insurance on deployed machines.
The risk is in the numbers. Equipment gets destroyed or damaged, just not at the 20-30% level that would approach AppleCare+ costs. We keep a close eye on the numbers, if it becomes beneficial to purchase AppleCare+ we will absolutely do it.

Apple recently lowered the AppleCare+ pricing (August 2021). I would like to think it was due to our transparency in cost analysis with our Apple account executives over the years; but know that our purchases are not even within variance for a 3 Trillion dollar company.
 
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None the less, it is true.

You would be incorrect.

Again incorrect.

Handled by Diamond Assets: https://diamondassets.com/
Now, you know.
So, you're selling off your damaged/EOL'ed hardware for pennies instead of properly maintaining them and getting the correct market value like most consumers would.

You claim to not have any internal IT department to manage thousands of computers. Or, the department exists, but that team has only cost the company about $2,500 a year over the past decade. To manage the equivalent of 10,000 computers. Uh huh.

Replacing swollen batteries and bent top cases/trackpads alone will get you to 10% of total spend. That's before tens of thousands of hours of general tech support and any other incidental damage (which, again, a meaningful part of your team is almost assuredly just living with given your lack of spend).
 
I agree, I never really needed AC+ but it was a piece of mind experience. The priority support for the iPhone for instance, I only bought it for the Macs (2018 mbp) because I knew it was an intentionally built defective device and man I am glad I had it. I only got it for the 2021 since it is new technology.

I do not see the point in buying it for the Apple Watch or the Apple TV (even iMac).

All companies to an extent, build their devices with some sort of flaw and know a warranty will make the consumer feel happy.

I even got a warranty that acts like an insurance on my vehicle, covering everything with a small deductible.
 
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So, you're selling off your damaged/EOL'ed hardware for pennies instead of properly maintaining them and getting the correct market value like most consumers would.
You seem to have a significant understanding of business costs. Yet, most of what you state is incorrect. While the numbers vary greatly, we get about 30-50% return on a 3 year old (EOL) device through Diamond Assets.

You claim to not have any internal IT department to manage thousands of computers. Or, the department exists, but that team has only cost the company about $2,500 a year over the past decade. To manage the equivalent of 10,000 computers. Uh huh.
I do not believe I claimed anything about our IT department costs. It was not included, as relevant to the OPs point of AppleCare+. We would still need the exact same IT department if we had AppleCare+ or not.

Your toxic responses are non productive. You have been blocked.
 
You seem to have a significant understanding of business costs. Yet, most of what you state is incorrect. While the numbers vary greatly, we get about 30-50% return on a 3 year old (EOL) device through Diamond Assets.

I do not believe I claimed anything about our IT department costs. It was not included, as not relevant to the OPs point of AppleCare+. We would still need the exact same IT department if we had AppleCare+ or not.

Your toxic responses are non productive. You have been blocked.
Your internal IT costs to service your 10,000 Macs are absolutely relevant since you're essentially replacing AC+ with your own labor. Time spent by your team replacing batteries, fixing hinges, replacing displays, repairing keyboards and trackpads, providing general tech support, etc. must absolutely be considered since all of those things and more would otherwise be handled by AC+.

If you're EOL'ing your hardware every 3 years, let's say you've got ~3,000 machines out there at any given time. It's reasonable to assume the equivalent of 1 full-time IT person per 1,000 machines/users. 3 IT people @ $60k/year on average for 11 years already gets you to $2 million. Then, to bring your situation properly in line with a realistic consumer scenario, you have to factor in all of the incidental damage that AC+ covers that your team's living with because they didn't pay for the computers with their own money but is ultimately paid for in lower valuations from Diamond Assets.

You may be saving some money since you've removed the middleman, but you need to look at your numbers again in their entirety if you think you reduced an 11-year $4.8 million AC+ company-wide service contract to $25k.
 
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I generally do not buy AppleCare+ (although I have occasionally), and thus sometimes have had to pay for replacements or repairs myself. I thought it might be interesting to add up the total amount of AppleCare+ cost that I have not purchased over the last ten years on Apple products, and compare with the cost I have incurred by not having AppleCare+:

These are the Apple products I and my wife have purchased and their U.S. AppleCare+ costs (that I did not purchase), over the last ten years:

Two 27"5k iMacs: $338
Two MacBook Pros: $558
Three iPhones: $447
One iPhone Pro Max: $199
Three iPad Minis: $207
One iPad: $69
One 11" iPad Pro: $129
Three AirPods: $87
Three Apple Watches: $237
Total: $2,271
~10% sales tax (California): $227
TOTAL AppleCare+ costs not purchased in 10 years: $2,498

Total expenses due to not having AppleCare+:
Smashed iPad Mini 1: $380
Less the AppleCare+ damage deductible avoided: -$49
iPhone 6s battery replacement: $29
MacBook Pro DIY battery replacement: $50
TOTAL extra expenses due to not having AppleCare+: $410

Net savings over 10 years by not purchasing AppleCare+: $2,088


Of course, maybe I am just extraordinarily lucky and could have a big repair or replacement cost tomorrow which would tilt the numbers the other way, but in any case it is interesting how the AppleCare+ costs can add up over a long period.

Anyone else added up the AppleCare+ costs they have, or have not, paid over a long period? And compared with repair costs paid (or avoided)?
TOO DAMN MUCH !
 
I have a different experience with Applecare. I am an independent consultant who has owned 2 or 3 dozen Apple products since 1987 - 34 years. That's not a huge sample in terms of machines compared to large businesses, such as 960design's, but it is a pretty long Apple experience.

I tend not to buy other manufacturer's extended warranties, but I almost always buy Applecare. My motivation is not just for the INSURANCE (crucial as that peace of mind is on fairly expensive equipment), but ALSO for the nearly 24/7 UNLIMITED TECHNICAL SUPPORT that comes with it, whether for hardware or software issues. If I have any problem that I can't handle myself, I just call them up and they help. I have NO IT department, while I do have pretty complex systems (more complicated than any individuals I know -- multiple monitors, printers, scanners, and other peripherals and expansions).

I have not totaled up my costs and benefits in terms of just damages repaired, because the value of the TECHNICAL SUPPORT tends to be AT LEAST, if not MORE important to me.

So INSURANCE, PEACE OF MIND, and UNLIMITED TECHNICAL SUPPORT.

Also, in my experience, all those benefits of Applecare tend to cost me 10-20%, and no more. On my most recent MacBookPro, it was 9.5% - but that is because I usually don't buy base-level units, because I need more performance, memory, storage, etc. I am quite satisfied with what it costs me.

Others' experiences can be different, of course.
 
My experience with Applecare has been horrible in the past.. HORRIBLE.. a waste of 299.00 for my computer back then which was a G4 MDD at the time. Back before you were born.
 
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So the point of your post is to discourage people from buying Applecare because you have saved so much money over the years. You did say maybe you were possibly extraordinarily lucky but the thread implications are that you saved enough to buy a new Mac and how much money did others save by not buying Applecare.

However have you ever stopped to think what the outcome of your post is for others?

I keep seeing posts about Applecare and there are always posts about how they never get it and save money and therefore people should not buy it.

That is great they and you have had positive experience not buying Applecare but I bet there are an equal amount of people who wish they did because of an expensive repair.

I don’t care one way or the other because I have no skin in this game. But I hate when people give advice or make posts which encourage a behavior that could hurt them in the long run.

The honest truth is you have no idea about anyone other than your own experience and it may not extrapolate out as you may think. And if the result of your post or comments lead people to the conclusion that Applecare is a waste of money they may not purchase based on your experience. Problem is that you don’t know what is going to happen to them and there is a chance that you are wrong. There is a chance that they may not have your luck and for most new macs there is a lot of tech that is not easily or cheaply available to fix. What if they have a screen issue or an accident. What if the ram is bad or ssd is a lemon? Then they will be out more than the cost of Applecare.

This is more relevant to brand new machines, specially M1!!
You have many good points, and I do not presume to tell other people what is best for them. I specifically avoided concluding that AppleCare is not worth it, or that others should not purchase it.

I have been intuitively feeling for a long time that AppleCare costs can add up to a significant amount over a long period, whether or not one purchases it, and finally decided to try and tally it up. I was kind of stunned how much it potentially added up to over 10 years for two people. I have not seen any other posts attempting to make this type of addition, and thought it would be interesting to others, and wondered how my experience compared to others. I imagine there are some that, to the contrary, have in the long run benefited from AppleCare+, and it certainly stabilizes the risk of sudden unexpected expenses.

I am not against AppleCare+, I have purchased it myself for some things, and I think it is great that Apple offers it as an option. For individual items I think it can be a wise and comforting decision, but in the long run for many products it can add up to possibly a larger amount than people realize.
 
So my takeaway from many of the reactions (thank you) to my original post: that although in the long run the cost of AppleCare+ may not be favorable, just like insurance it can make much more sense by reducing financial risk in the short term and for individual items, and for other less quantifiable things like peace of mind and technical support. How valuable this is really depends on the individual, their specific situation and their tolerance for risk.
 
Some people use the insurance and get their moneys worth while others don't use it. The only comment here is that Apple products aren't easily fixed (just ask iFixit) so peace of mind goes with insurance as many Apple products are costly
 
I rarely, if ever, take extended warranties. I've been applying these 3 pro tips all this time along :

1) I'm careful with my stuff.
2) I buy a good, soft case if it's a mobile device such as an iPhone or iPad.
3) I always pay credit. It automagically expands my warranty with 2 additional years.

In the last 15 years, if I took AppleCare on any of my 25+ products, I would never have needed to use it.
 
I follow the basic rule of standard 1 year warranty. If the item is faulty, it will be replaced/repaired by Apple anyway if it is less than 1 year old.
One year is enough to see if your mac is going to live more - usually if something is faulty, then it breaks immediately or at least before warranty expires.
All the other cases out of 1 year were covered by Apple and class lawsuit, like butterfly keyboard, screen cables and etc.
This is the reason i am not buying AC+.

Well there are also cases when the person totally wins. Like the stories when someone purchased AC+, then got their laptop replaced battery and keyboard 2 times in 3 years, and 1 day before the end of AC+, these guys score new equivalent of their old Macs, so basically get free MBP 16 2021 by giving the faulty MBP 15 2018. These could also happen and you'd better have AC+ in this case.

In the end, nobody knows as it is a gamble. If you are in case 2, then you would want to be covered by AC+, while case 1 will save money by not purchasing it.
 
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