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Looking 3-5 years down the road.. I see Apple with a 25%+ market share..
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I think you're living in la-la land
Apple has been steadily losing, rather than gaining market share and it's apparent current strategy of focusing on the audio/video/graphics and personal entertainment markets (a la iTunes, the iPod and AppleMusic) signal to me that they'll be lucky to have a half-percent share in 5 years. Most of this has been covered, but here are my reasons:
-- Pricing. Apple products are priced well beyond what both corporate IT buyers and average home users will spend. For example, Apple's idea of a budget laptop - an iBook w/ "yesterday's" processor (the G3), a 14" screen, 40gb HD and 256mb RAM is $1,499. A comparable Dell 600M w/ 1.3ghz Pentium, 14" screen, 40gb HD, 384mb RAM, extra battery, and two-years of on-site service is $1,517, (and that inclues WordPerfect office). So with Dell you get an extra battery, more memory, a much better warranty, and an office suite for the same price as the Mac. OS X may be nice, but the average home user is happy with Windows XP or even ME - do you really think they care about OS X? (business users have a different OSX issue - compatibility).Similar pricing differences exist across the entire Mac line w/ respect to Dell, IBM, HP, Toshiba and Compaq.
-- Compatibility. How do you get to 25% market share without making significant inroads into the corporate world? How many IT shops are going to support both the Mac OS and Windows across a broad spectrum of users (as opposed to doing it for a few specialized groups within a company). How are they going to give Mac users access to programs like Visio and Access that are used every day in the corporate world - set them up with Virtual PC?
-- Service -- Apple's service simply doesn't match what corporate users get from Dell, IBM, etc. While companies will use internal people for repairs, they'll hardly be willing to wait 3-4 days to receive critical parts (as I just did a week ago). For a home user, the contrast is stark. Take my iBook - Dell notebook comparison above. You'd pay an extra $250 to get three year MAIL-IN support for the iBook, bringing the total price to $1,750. For $1,647, you can have the Dell with 4-YEAR ON-SITE service (plus the extra RAM, battery, etc.). And Apple doesn't offer 24/7 telephone support like many of its PC competitors.
IMO, Apple markets itself as an elite (some would say novelty) product. By definition, it's not mainstream, and it hasn't shown any signs of changing its ways.
I bought my first and only Mac a few months ago, a 15" TiBook 1ghz (I've used PC's for 20 years, and continue to use them). It's a slick machine, and so is OS X. But after considering what I paid for it, the difficulty I've had finding software comparable to what I have on my PC's, and the less-than-stellar service I've gotten from Apple, I now consider it a fun and cool novelty; not a reliable workhorse for actually getting stuff done.
So I'm curious; just how is Apple going to get to a 25% market share?
Apple has been steadily losing, rather than gaining market share and it's apparent current strategy of focusing on the audio/video/graphics and personal entertainment markets (a la iTunes, the iPod and AppleMusic) signal to me that they'll be lucky to have a half-percent share in 5 years. Most of this has been covered, but here are my reasons:
-- Pricing. Apple products are priced well beyond what both corporate IT buyers and average home users will spend. For example, Apple's idea of a budget laptop - an iBook w/ "yesterday's" processor (the G3), a 14" screen, 40gb HD and 256mb RAM is $1,499. A comparable Dell 600M w/ 1.3ghz Pentium, 14" screen, 40gb HD, 384mb RAM, extra battery, and two-years of on-site service is $1,517, (and that inclues WordPerfect office). So with Dell you get an extra battery, more memory, a much better warranty, and an office suite for the same price as the Mac. OS X may be nice, but the average home user is happy with Windows XP or even ME - do you really think they care about OS X? (business users have a different OSX issue - compatibility).Similar pricing differences exist across the entire Mac line w/ respect to Dell, IBM, HP, Toshiba and Compaq.
-- Compatibility. How do you get to 25% market share without making significant inroads into the corporate world? How many IT shops are going to support both the Mac OS and Windows across a broad spectrum of users (as opposed to doing it for a few specialized groups within a company). How are they going to give Mac users access to programs like Visio and Access that are used every day in the corporate world - set them up with Virtual PC?
-- Service -- Apple's service simply doesn't match what corporate users get from Dell, IBM, etc. While companies will use internal people for repairs, they'll hardly be willing to wait 3-4 days to receive critical parts (as I just did a week ago). For a home user, the contrast is stark. Take my iBook - Dell notebook comparison above. You'd pay an extra $250 to get three year MAIL-IN support for the iBook, bringing the total price to $1,750. For $1,647, you can have the Dell with 4-YEAR ON-SITE service (plus the extra RAM, battery, etc.). And Apple doesn't offer 24/7 telephone support like many of its PC competitors.
IMO, Apple markets itself as an elite (some would say novelty) product. By definition, it's not mainstream, and it hasn't shown any signs of changing its ways.
I bought my first and only Mac a few months ago, a 15" TiBook 1ghz (I've used PC's for 20 years, and continue to use them). It's a slick machine, and so is OS X. But after considering what I paid for it, the difficulty I've had finding software comparable to what I have on my PC's, and the less-than-stellar service I've gotten from Apple, I now consider it a fun and cool novelty; not a reliable workhorse for actually getting stuff done.
So I'm curious; just how is Apple going to get to a 25% market share?
Its really a shame, but I think to most typical computer users out there, Apple is a laughing joke. A few months ago I announced that my next computer would be an Apple. My friends looked at me wide eyed and shouted "Dear god, WHY?!" I am not joking! Go to any typical computer forum online and start talking about macs, and I bet you that all you will get is ridicule and bashing. Criticize these people all you want, call them idiotic windows users, but when you think about it, its these typical computer users that we all want to switch to increase Apple's market share.
Apple really needs to do something to change their image. These days, everyone laughts at Apples high prices and subpar speeds. You can get a 2.4ghz Dell for like $600 these days WITH a monitor which will run circles around any Apple computer 3x its price. Windows is getting more and more stable with each new release. Do you think the average Joe is going to pay three times the price just to be able to use OSX (and they have no idea what that is anyway). The days of $3000+ computers are long gone, and Apple needs to get with the times. It really doesn't matter how highly Apple sees themselves, but if they don't change fast, they won't be around for long.
Apple really needs to do something to change their image. These days, everyone laughts at Apples high prices and subpar speeds. You can get a 2.4ghz Dell for like $600 these days WITH a monitor which will run circles around any Apple computer 3x its price. Windows is getting more and more stable with each new release. Do you think the average Joe is going to pay three times the price just to be able to use OSX (and they have no idea what that is anyway). The days of $3000+ computers are long gone, and Apple needs to get with the times. It really doesn't matter how highly Apple sees themselves, but if they don't change fast, they won't be around for long.
Re: Looking 3-5 years down the road.. I see Apple with a 25%+ market share..
I agree with all that you said, although when you say that macs are about to get really fast, do u mean compared to current models? Anyway, I read an extremely informative article on Palladium
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
and the things I read just made me think of Communist China under Mao and the book 1984 (A VERY GOOD book, albeit a bit depressing, the movie is not so good) . What Microsoft is planning to do in the next few years is very scary and frightening to the informed consumer, the majority of the people on this board. It bothers me deeply to think about how much privacy, freedom, we will lose once the "world" accepts Palladium.
I encourage everyone who uses a pc, ever, to read that article I linked to at the top.
tazo
I agree with all that you said, although when you say that macs are about to get really fast, do u mean compared to current models? Anyway, I read an extremely informative article on Palladium
http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~rja14/tcpa-faq.html
and the things I read just made me think of Communist China under Mao and the book 1984 (A VERY GOOD book, albeit a bit depressing, the movie is not so good) . What Microsoft is planning to do in the next few years is very scary and frightening to the informed consumer, the majority of the people on this board. It bothers me deeply to think about how much privacy, freedom, we will lose once the "world" accepts Palladium.
I encourage everyone who uses a pc, ever, to read that article I linked to at the top.
tazo
Re: Re: Re: Looking 3-5 years down the road.. I see Apple with a 25%+ market share..
I was kidding, sorta...didnt you see the Commodore did have millions in installed user base by the mid 80's.
I did know ALOT of ppl (including myself) that used Commodore, be it Vic 20, c64, 128, Amiga (owned by Commodore)
I was kidding, sorta...didnt you see the
Commodore did have millions in installed user base by the mid 80's.I did know ALOT of ppl (including myself) that used Commodore, be it Vic 20, c64, 128, Amiga (owned by Commodore)
hm...
I run a company that has 4 businesses under it. About 2 years ago we put a Mac into one of those companies and found it to be great. We have since switched over all except 2 machines to Mac. We have no compatibility issues what so ever. I have to run our banking software through VirtualPC but thats a small sacrifice.
On the plus side we have much much less downtime and our staff can't open weird exe files anymore. Viruses worry us alot less. We have set up several wireless networks with NO trouble.
I have to say that before OSX we would never have concidered buying. The nex xservers are great...so easy to configure...
All senior management will be upgraded to 15.4" when they come out...
I hink apples marketshare will grow but not to 25%...
Have a nice one
I run a company that has 4 businesses under it. About 2 years ago we put a Mac into one of those companies and found it to be great. We have since switched over all except 2 machines to Mac. We have no compatibility issues what so ever. I have to run our banking software through VirtualPC but thats a small sacrifice.
On the plus side we have much much less downtime and our staff can't open weird exe files anymore. Viruses worry us alot less. We have set up several wireless networks with NO trouble.
I have to say that before OSX we would never have concidered buying. The nex xservers are great...so easy to configure...
All senior management will be upgraded to 15.4" when they come out...
I hink apples marketshare will grow but not to 25%...
Have a nice one
Re: sure you can
-pfranzen
Not at all (I wouldn't have been a good Big Fiver if I wasn't willing to move around a bit), but we'd need to discuss.
Uh, oh. Getting serious here. Let's take this private so this thread can get back on topic.
Some humor directed at North Americans:
"I'd love to go to England, but I'd need to get a metric watch."
"..As in Helsinki Sweden."
"Finland!"
Originally posted by pfranzen
mind moving to London?
-pfranzen
Not at all (I wouldn't have been a good Big Fiver if I wasn't willing to move around a bit), but we'd need to discuss.
Uh, oh. Getting serious here. Let's take this private so this thread can get back on topic.
Some humor directed at North Americans:
"I'd love to go to England, but I'd need to get a metric watch."
"..As in Helsinki Sweden."
"Finland!"
Re: Re: sure you can
And you'll have to learn to spell humor with a U!
Back to topic, i can identify exactly with pfranzen, investing more up front than he probably wanted to on a system that he is sure will do everything he wants - well and less expensively in the long term.
I was in the building game and used to get lots of kit from the continent that never saw the light of British day till years later. People used to laugh in my face at some of the stuff I introduced, but they laughed on the other side of their faces when they saw how much quicker and happier and better my blokes worked once they had got over their "fear" of being different.
Apple need to push like mad to spread the word of their differentness, but have to accept that the majority of the corporate world will continue to buy cheaper machines today. However, businesses like Pfrentzen's can only benefit as the corporate sheep competitors laugh at him for bucking the trend whereby mega MHZ software dripping PC is somehow an incredibly smart business move. He will be able to sell his hardware when PCs are being given away to save on dumping costs, his reduced downtime will be money in the bank, and a happy work force is a profitable workforce.
As education in business rises, so the number crunching cost cutters might eventually see the wisdom of going for a different IT package
Just my 2 centimos worth.
And you'll have to learn to spell humor with a U!
Back to topic, i can identify exactly with pfranzen, investing more up front than he probably wanted to on a system that he is sure will do everything he wants - well and less expensively in the long term.
I was in the building game and used to get lots of kit from the continent that never saw the light of British day till years later. People used to laugh in my face at some of the stuff I introduced, but they laughed on the other side of their faces when they saw how much quicker and happier and better my blokes worked once they had got over their "fear" of being different.
Apple need to push like mad to spread the word of their differentness, but have to accept that the majority of the corporate world will continue to buy cheaper machines today. However, businesses like Pfrentzen's can only benefit as the corporate sheep competitors laugh at him for bucking the trend whereby mega MHZ software dripping PC is somehow an incredibly smart business move. He will be able to sell his hardware when PCs are being given away to save on dumping costs, his reduced downtime will be money in the bank, and a happy work force is a profitable workforce.
As education in business rises, so the number crunching cost cutters might eventually see the wisdom of going for a different IT package
Just my 2 centimos worth.
BeOS had poor hardware and driver support and didn't have the critical mass that OS X has.
OS X also appeals to Linux folks, having much better usability and with a robust Unix core.
The combination of inexpensive, more powerful hardware offered by x86 coupled with a superior OS would catch the attention of most influential tech writers. Maybe only the tech savvy and smarter folks would make the switch immediately from Wintel to MacTel, but the eventual surge could be enormous.
But let's face it, Steve Jobs lacks the balls to seriously challenge Microsoft. He's quite content to be the "well, I'm still better than you" niche market also-ran rather than take the risks necessary to really compete with Microsoft and appeal to the mass market.
Share?... of what "market?"
It's getting to the point, for me, that the whole continuing discussion of Apple's market share is just laughable... and specious.
Who is the Voice Of Authority who decided that Apple's "market" was limited to desktop PCs? Whoever originally foisted that little slice of nonsense on all of us should lean back now and enjoy one serious belly laugh at our expense. Apple is not a "desktop PC" company, anymore than Sony is a desktop PC company.
Measuring the success or failure of Apple Computer Inc. by its desktop PC hardware market share is just plain silly.
It's getting to the point, for me, that the whole continuing discussion of Apple's market share is just laughable... and specious.
Who is the Voice Of Authority who decided that Apple's "market" was limited to desktop PCs? Whoever originally foisted that little slice of nonsense on all of us should lean back now and enjoy one serious belly laugh at our expense. Apple is not a "desktop PC" company, anymore than Sony is a desktop PC company.
Measuring the success or failure of Apple Computer Inc. by its desktop PC hardware market share is just plain silly.
Desktop (and laptop) hardware is precisely where Apples strength (and profitability) lies. This market share stuff is a bit irrelevant, really, since as long as they sell enough in absolute terms, ie. actual machines, as opposed to a percentage of a market, they'll be in business and can continue.
The Ghz stuff is also is beside the point. Most desktop machines of any make are used for what? 3D rendering? Mostly not.
The fact is that, whether you or I agree with them, Apple sell their computers as a premium product, and charge a premium price, like BMW or Lexus. And to continue the car analogy, many people choose comfort, reliability or looks over speed. In fact, most people, probably.
I agree with those who have pointed out that to get 25%, Apple would have to sell to Corporations, which won't happen, much, though not because Corporations don't like buying from and depending on a single vendor (where do they get nearly all their software?), but through simple inertia, and the fact that most of their IT people know WinTel, were trained on WinTel, and and have heard that Mac systems need less looking after than WinTel systems.
As long as enough of us continue to choose Macs when we buy computers, we will get the machines we prefer, and Apple will stay in business.
5%, 10%, perhaps. So what. They do OK on 3%.
Cheers, Mark
The Ghz stuff is also is beside the point. Most desktop machines of any make are used for what? 3D rendering? Mostly not.
The fact is that, whether you or I agree with them, Apple sell their computers as a premium product, and charge a premium price, like BMW or Lexus. And to continue the car analogy, many people choose comfort, reliability or looks over speed. In fact, most people, probably.
I agree with those who have pointed out that to get 25%, Apple would have to sell to Corporations, which won't happen, much, though not because Corporations don't like buying from and depending on a single vendor (where do they get nearly all their software?), but through simple inertia, and the fact that most of their IT people know WinTel, were trained on WinTel, and and have heard that Mac systems need less looking after than WinTel systems.
As long as enough of us continue to choose Macs when we buy computers, we will get the machines we prefer, and Apple will stay in business.
5%, 10%, perhaps. So what. They do OK on 3%.
Cheers, Mark
Yes, Apple can play it safe instead of competing in the real world against a tough opponent. For lowest corporate risk, desktop hardware is Apple's center of profitability however I don't think it is their strength as a product developer, rather Apple is best at design, innovative ideas and operating software.
To many of us, the GHz is very much the point. Regardless of how the majority of desktop machines are used, the Mac should be known as a hardware leader, not part of the "trailing edge".
Advanced users who use computers for professional audio, music and video processing shouldn't be CPU-penalized and told that they should pay many times more for inferior CPU performance just because the Mac is more "elegant". That is elitist crap that unfortunately lets Apple get away with its less than competitive attitude. I don't see BMW or Lexus using an underpowered Ford or Hyundai motor. Regardless of the "image", nobody would buy one if they did.
I never even considered a Mac before it had the Unix-based OS X. To me, the robustness of Unix and the features and ease of use of Apple's new operating system are Apple's strengths to those who are not already Mac users.
Linux (in it's usual role as a server) is still more stable than OS X, but Linux is not even close to being a good choice for a desktop OS for the average user.
Apple's OS X could be "the" desktop OS of choice for the masses if Apple chose to release Marklar (OS X for the x86 platform) but Steve Jobs, for all his quirkiness and bravado won't risk true competition again with Microsoft. It's just a lot safer for his ego to remain the elitist high-margin panderer to the dwindling 3% of rabid and fanatical admirers still clinging to past glory.
Hmmm... it's good to know that I am one of "...the dwindling 3% of rabid and fanatical admirers still clinging to past glory." I had never quite looked at myself that way.
I sort of thought I was a careful, analytical guy who evaluates my computer choices against the standards that best define my own particular needs: low hassle, no system level tinkering, no hardware tinkering, no programming or coding, all usage through the GUI, an emphasis on dependable, robust operation and ease of configuration, a dead-stable reliability in running multiple applications simultaneously, little emphasis on absolute processing speed, preference for a true desktop-centered GUI metaphor, no-brain implementation of networking (including wireless), and a smoothly integrated and cross-functional selection of key small business and graphics applications that run, do what I need, and just don't crash or freeze. By that standard, I continue to choose Macintosh as my computing platform preference.
I am proudly a computer "user." This means I just simply never, ever want to see the guts of my hardware or software, or be asked (or required) by my computer to go crawling down into its convoluted belly to extract or adjust some arcane functional detail.
Just like I enjoy just hopping into my car each morning, cranking the key around, having it instantly start and just obey my commands... without ever opening the hood or knowing or caring what is under that hood... I want my computing experience to be a turn it on, do what I need to do, never see the machine behind the monitor screen experience.
I am not a network admin, repairman, systems analyst, or even a "computer hobbyist." I am a user, and the tool I choose to use is the one that just gets the job done in the most pleasant, least involved, lowest hassle manner.
Even *one* incident of having the computer choke and sputter, or spit up some bizarre, semi-intelligible box wiht a demand for me to reach into its guts is one time too many. When that happens on one of my Windows machines at my company, I just reach for the phone and call a technician to some over a fix it.
It doesn't happen with my Macs, running OS X 10.2.6. The machines just start, run, do what needs done, and do it in a very unobtrusive manner.
I'm not an idiot: I can use every feature in Photoshop 7, for instance, as well as tie my own shoes, and brush my own teeth. I just, again, have zero interest in fiddling with the functionality of a computer.
There are no hacks, no strange third-party utilities, and no offbeat freeware installed on any of my machines. We never move files or folders from where the OS chooses to place them. When we upgrade through Software Updater, everything just works, and usually works better; nothing "breaks."
I appreciate the view of people who get some sort of ego boost from havign computer technical skills, and who do enjoy being able to futz around with the software and hardware guts of their machines. And, it seems, there is a much larger than typical segment of those people who regularly visit the several online Mac communities.
Believe me, most real Mac (and Windows) users do *not* know a darned thing about what's under the hood, have no desire to learn, no desire to monkey around with those things, and really just want to turn on their computer and deal with nothing beyond quietly using the application software installed on the machine.
By that standard... not some sort of pigheaded inertia... I have made the informed decision to use my Macs. Only in applications where Mac software is not availabel for a required task do I use a Windows machine.
Thanks for "listening."
I sort of thought I was a careful, analytical guy who evaluates my computer choices against the standards that best define my own particular needs: low hassle, no system level tinkering, no hardware tinkering, no programming or coding, all usage through the GUI, an emphasis on dependable, robust operation and ease of configuration, a dead-stable reliability in running multiple applications simultaneously, little emphasis on absolute processing speed, preference for a true desktop-centered GUI metaphor, no-brain implementation of networking (including wireless), and a smoothly integrated and cross-functional selection of key small business and graphics applications that run, do what I need, and just don't crash or freeze. By that standard, I continue to choose Macintosh as my computing platform preference.
I am proudly a computer "user." This means I just simply never, ever want to see the guts of my hardware or software, or be asked (or required) by my computer to go crawling down into its convoluted belly to extract or adjust some arcane functional detail.
Just like I enjoy just hopping into my car each morning, cranking the key around, having it instantly start and just obey my commands... without ever opening the hood or knowing or caring what is under that hood... I want my computing experience to be a turn it on, do what I need to do, never see the machine behind the monitor screen experience.
I am not a network admin, repairman, systems analyst, or even a "computer hobbyist." I am a user, and the tool I choose to use is the one that just gets the job done in the most pleasant, least involved, lowest hassle manner.
Even *one* incident of having the computer choke and sputter, or spit up some bizarre, semi-intelligible box wiht a demand for me to reach into its guts is one time too many. When that happens on one of my Windows machines at my company, I just reach for the phone and call a technician to some over a fix it.
It doesn't happen with my Macs, running OS X 10.2.6. The machines just start, run, do what needs done, and do it in a very unobtrusive manner.
I'm not an idiot: I can use every feature in Photoshop 7, for instance, as well as tie my own shoes, and brush my own teeth. I just, again, have zero interest in fiddling with the functionality of a computer.
There are no hacks, no strange third-party utilities, and no offbeat freeware installed on any of my machines. We never move files or folders from where the OS chooses to place them. When we upgrade through Software Updater, everything just works, and usually works better; nothing "breaks."
I appreciate the view of people who get some sort of ego boost from havign computer technical skills, and who do enjoy being able to futz around with the software and hardware guts of their machines. And, it seems, there is a much larger than typical segment of those people who regularly visit the several online Mac communities.
Believe me, most real Mac (and Windows) users do *not* know a darned thing about what's under the hood, have no desire to learn, no desire to monkey around with those things, and really just want to turn on their computer and deal with nothing beyond quietly using the application software installed on the machine.
By that standard... not some sort of pigheaded inertia... I have made the informed decision to use my Macs. Only in applications where Mac software is not availabel for a required task do I use a Windows machine.
Thanks for "listening."
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
All those things are nice and mostly true about the Mac platform, but the Wintel World has been fast closing the gap. What we are seeing today is the quality of Wintel hardware and software is rising faster than the cost of Apple's offerings is lowering. Parity is being lost and the more practical and less invested of Apple's userbase have been considering a move to Wintel. Much of Apple's image is based on fading myths, be they megahertz, reliability or stability.
Most PC users don't see Apple as the BMW of computers. That's how Apple users like to see themselves. On a nice day, we'd be branded as a $35,000 "Beetle" or "Mini-Cooper". Really cute and well engineered, but not worth the money in terms of tangibles. People who purchase based on intangibles have mouths ringed with the scars of countless fish hooks.
All that, and I still like my Apple.... - j
Most PC users don't see Apple as the BMW of computers. That's how Apple users like to see themselves. On a nice day, we'd be branded as a $35,000 "Beetle" or "Mini-Cooper". Really cute and well engineered, but not worth the money in terms of tangibles. People who purchase based on intangibles have mouths ringed with the scars of countless fish hooks.
All that, and I still like my Apple.... - j
There we go with that "fading myth" stuff, again.
I have to track technology and make usage decisions in real-time, based on today's information... not "myths." Being a hands-on guy, I look for myself, instead of listening to whatever the prevailing common knowledge might be saying. That said, I use and understand state of the art Windows and Mac OS systems... I haven't been tucking my head away in self imposed oblivion; I have both types of computer merrily humming away in my business.
Again, from the perspective of a non-technical "user-only," there is simply no comparison between to clutter-free intuitive operation of a current XP system and an OS X system.
The other day, I had to install and configure FedEx's shipping software on a new XP machine, and get both the thermal label printer and a laser printer working properly to print labels and international document sets. It took, literally, two days of sustained efforts, involving me, my sharpest Windows advisor, the tech line staff at both printer manufacturers, and the FedEx support people. I am neither lying or exagerating.
I have since had dozens of Windows experts start to launch into any number of "yes, buts..." to explain what I should have done, could have done, didn't do... But, again, my point is that I am a businessman who needs a tool that just works: stick it in, plug it in, punch the button, and it works. Every time. I don't want excuses or explanations.
If Apple can maintain the overall integrity of its platform that is now there, so that it remains an "it just works" proposition, the'll keep my business. The moment some oterh platform can provide a better user experience, with more reliable operation, wiht less hassle, I will change platforms.
Windows XP is currently not that platform.
I have to track technology and make usage decisions in real-time, based on today's information... not "myths." Being a hands-on guy, I look for myself, instead of listening to whatever the prevailing common knowledge might be saying. That said, I use and understand state of the art Windows and Mac OS systems... I haven't been tucking my head away in self imposed oblivion; I have both types of computer merrily humming away in my business.
Again, from the perspective of a non-technical "user-only," there is simply no comparison between to clutter-free intuitive operation of a current XP system and an OS X system.
The other day, I had to install and configure FedEx's shipping software on a new XP machine, and get both the thermal label printer and a laser printer working properly to print labels and international document sets. It took, literally, two days of sustained efforts, involving me, my sharpest Windows advisor, the tech line staff at both printer manufacturers, and the FedEx support people. I am neither lying or exagerating.
I have since had dozens of Windows experts start to launch into any number of "yes, buts..." to explain what I should have done, could have done, didn't do... But, again, my point is that I am a businessman who needs a tool that just works: stick it in, plug it in, punch the button, and it works. Every time. I don't want excuses or explanations.
If Apple can maintain the overall integrity of its platform that is now there, so that it remains an "it just works" proposition, the'll keep my business. The moment some oterh platform can provide a better user experience, with more reliable operation, wiht less hassle, I will change platforms.
Windows XP is currently not that platform.
I agree MacWhispers
When an application crashes in XP, it doesn't display a simple dialog saying the program has crashed. Instead it brings up a garbled dialog asking me to e-mail microsoft to tell them why the product failed and all that jazz. I don't want my computer to be the waves pounding my workflow boat around. Instead I want my computer to be calm and allow me to sail around the pond doing what I want to do.
I can't stand wizards, I can't stand 'helpful' dialogs. I want my machine to do what I want when I want it and with no fuss.
I just installed airport in my PowerMac. Everyone who has knows how easy it is to do. I then installed a PCI card in my PC (no built in wireless in a brand new gateway) to handle the wireless. 2 hrs later I had an IP via DHCP (this is Window XP). The internet finally worked...finally.
I will take a 2 min installation anyday over a 2hr one.
Microsoft continue to dig themselves a hole. Longhorn is not how most people want their computer to function. Most people find Win 95/Win 3.1 more productive than a crazy convulated toolbar/menu driven method of computer manipulation. The Mac OS X Dock is the logical extension of the desktop metaphor. The start menu is not. Its an interface mess with Time, Taskbar's, Menu's and other items slapped into a tiny form. Make each element be itself, rather than making the all in wonder...is that not what the miserably wretched Windows Media Player 9 does? Compare iTunes 4 and Quicktime to WMP in terms of usability. Are you lost in WMP? I presume so.
Ease of use and KISS are today's standards. Computers are not meant to get harder every generation!
My 2 cents.
When an application crashes in XP, it doesn't display a simple dialog saying the program has crashed. Instead it brings up a garbled dialog asking me to e-mail microsoft to tell them why the product failed and all that jazz. I don't want my computer to be the waves pounding my workflow boat around. Instead I want my computer to be calm and allow me to sail around the pond doing what I want to do.
I can't stand wizards, I can't stand 'helpful' dialogs. I want my machine to do what I want when I want it and with no fuss.
I just installed airport in my PowerMac. Everyone who has knows how easy it is to do. I then installed a PCI card in my PC (no built in wireless in a brand new gateway) to handle the wireless. 2 hrs later I had an IP via DHCP (this is Window XP). The internet finally worked...finally.
I will take a 2 min installation anyday over a 2hr one.
Microsoft continue to dig themselves a hole. Longhorn is not how most people want their computer to function. Most people find Win 95/Win 3.1 more productive than a crazy convulated toolbar/menu driven method of computer manipulation. The Mac OS X Dock is the logical extension of the desktop metaphor. The start menu is not. Its an interface mess with Time, Taskbar's, Menu's and other items slapped into a tiny form. Make each element be itself, rather than making the all in wonder...is that not what the miserably wretched Windows Media Player 9 does? Compare iTunes 4 and Quicktime to WMP in terms of usability. Are you lost in WMP? I presume so.
Ease of use and KISS are today's standards. Computers are not meant to get harder every generation!
My 2 cents.
jayscheuerle
macrumors 68020
Re: Re: I agree MacWhispers
These problems are why I forbid any of my machines to have (a) hacks of any kind, (b) user interface mods of any kind, (c) relocation of files or folders away from the locations selected natively by the OS, or (d) installation of system or application software onto hardware configurations not explicitly supported by the software manufacturer.
It's just amzing how stable and functional Mac OS X 10.2 becomes if you just obey those four simple rules.
If you'll query the folks posting all of their hideous problems on the Apple message boards, you'll find an incredible number of violations of these four rules.
Is the Apple OS perfect? No freaking way. Is it more perfect than the present version of Windows XP?... yes, notably more perfect.
These problems are why I forbid any of my machines to have (a) hacks of any kind, (b) user interface mods of any kind, (c) relocation of files or folders away from the locations selected natively by the OS, or (d) installation of system or application software onto hardware configurations not explicitly supported by the software manufacturer.
It's just amzing how stable and functional Mac OS X 10.2 becomes if you just obey those four simple rules.
If you'll query the folks posting all of their hideous problems on the Apple message boards, you'll find an incredible number of violations of these four rules.
Is the Apple OS perfect? No freaking way. Is it more perfect than the present version of Windows XP?... yes, notably more perfect.
Re: Re: Re: I agree MacWhispers
if i had to take half the fun out of a computer just to use it, why would i get one? i'd still be on the XP box i got.
oh, i doubt that pretty strongly. XP, if you run it on all normal, recent, popular hardware, with only approved apps, no interface mods... sure, it will look crappy, but it will be every bit as stable as our OS X in optimum cases. OS stability shouldn't be defined by such rigid standards. they're supposed to be flexible. i violate your rules aplenty, and i have no problems, by and large.
if i had to take half the fun out of a computer just to use it, why would i get one? i'd still be on the XP box i got.
i think they are only satisfied, though, because they don't realize how much better it could be.