Looking for answers to a G4 problem...

nancyr98765

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
8
1
I don't know where to post this but I'm at a loss. I hope someone can help!

I have a Power Mac G4 Quicksilver tower, 2001.

My video card was going out so I bought one on ebay. Same exact card, same numbers on it. When I put it in the machine, it won't turn on. If I take it out and leave it out, or put the old card in, the machine will run. Put in the new one, it won't turn on. Anyone know what the problem is? The seller sold it as tested and working. Actually, I've tried another video card, too, and the same thing happens. It, too, was tested and working.... until it went into my machine.

I put in a new PRAM battery and reset the PRAM, NVRAM, and PMU. Nothing is fixing this.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'd like to have at least one of them for backup, since I have them.

Thank you!
 

jerwin

Suspended
Jun 13, 2015
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possibly stupid question-- have these cards been tested with a powermac, or with a x86 pc?
 

nancyr98765

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
8
1
got a link to the auction?
Here it is: https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Powermac-G5-Ati-Radeon-9600-128MB-Dvi-dvi-Video-Card-Tested/122856605602?ssPageName=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649

Thanks for looking.
[doublepost=1529029315][/doublepost]
Thanks. The seller sold it for an Apple machine, said it was tested and working. So, not sure.....
[doublepost=1529029360][/doublepost]
possibly stupid question-- have these cards been tested with a powermac, or with a x86 pc?
Seller said it was tested and working, sold it for an Apple machine.
[doublepost=1529029423][/doublepost]
You need to flash it with a Mac specific ROM if you're putting a PC card into a PowerMac.
I would love to flash it with a Mac specific ROM. If I only knew how....
[doublepost=1529029462][/doublepost]
Thanks. I might try this guy! :)
 
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chscag

macrumors 68040
Feb 17, 2008
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Fort Worth, Texas
Just a WAG here.. but your power supply in the G4 may be failing. Putting in a new working video card causes more current to be drawn and the PS shuts down. The old video card is likely dead and drawing no current which is why the G4 turns on. Like I said though.... just a WAG. Let's see what some other folks think first.
 

bunnspecial

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May 3, 2014
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I've run several of those cards in PM G4s.

The computer WILL NOT boot unless pins 3 and 11 are disabled. The reason for this is that this was designed as a G5 card. Neither the Quicksilver nor the G5 AGP slots follow the standard AGP protocol, and it's different between the two computers.

Fitting an unmodified G5 card in a Quicksilver will cause the computer to not boot.

If pins 3 and 11 on the back of the card are disabled, it will boot. I prefer to do this by taping off the pins, although some folks cut the traces. If you look carefully at your old card, you will find that this was done.

Here's a write-up on how to "tape" cards.

http://themacelite.wikidot.com/pins-3-and-11

I generally use Scotch tape, cut it CAREFULLY around those two pins, and then peel it off. It should leave a nice cover over those pins.
 

RhianB

macrumors 65816
Sep 3, 2016
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I thought the ATI 9600 series cards were really buggy in quicksilvers. IIRC Bunnspecial runs a mac edition 9600 in his quicksilver. Maybe he can shed some light into how to get this card going.

Best of luck to you.

Hardy har har. Bunny beat me to it. :D
 
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nancyr98765

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
8
1
I've run several of those cards in PM G4s.

The computer WILL NOT boot unless pins 3 and 11 are disabled. The reason for this is that this was designed as a G5 card. Neither the Quicksilver nor the G5 AGP slots follow the standard AGP protocol, and it's different between the two computers.

Fitting an unmodified G5 card in a Quicksilver will cause the computer to not boot.

If pins 3 and 11 on the back of the card are disabled, it will boot. I prefer to do this by taping off the pins, although some folks cut the traces. If you look carefully at your old card, you will find that this was done.

Here's a write-up on how to "tape" cards.

http://themacelite.wikidot.com/pins-3-and-11

I generally use Scotch tape, cut it CAREFULLY around those two pins, and then peel it off. It should leave a nice cover over those pins.
WOW! You are correct, bunnspecial. Those pins are indeed modified on the old card. It took a magnifying glass and a strong light to find it. Looks like they were cut or scratched off at the strategic location but the info you provided said removing the two resistors will work and that looks easier to me. Would you recommend that instead? There were no photos showing how the taping is done. THANK YOU for solving what started out to be seemingly impossible to solve!
 

bunnspecial

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May 3, 2014
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Would you recommend that instead? There were no photos showing how the taping is done.
I'll see if I can dig up some photos of taping this weekend. I don't like doing stuff that's not reversible to the card itself.

Like I said, though, my general procedure is to put a piece of Scotch tape over the back side pins and then carefully cut around 3 and 11 with a sharp knife(an Xacto or scalpel is probably best). Once the tape is cut, you can(carefully) peel off the rest and it should leave a nice block of tape on the pins you want to block.

Sadly, no graphics acceleration for OS 9 with the R9600.
Where did the OP mention OS 9? Since they've been running a 9600 for a long time, presumably OS 9 isn't a consideration.

When I sit down to plan out a G4 box that I'm going to "build" I decide if it's going to be for OS 9 primarily, or OS X only. If it's intended to be an OS 9 box, I generally put a Geforce 4Ti in it, or at least a different good OS 9 card if I don't have a 4Ti that I want to dedicate to that particular computer at the time(the Geforce 4MX and Radeon 9000 are always solid stand-by choices, and if I'm doing it for someone else the choice between the two is often governed by whether they VGA or DVI for the secondary port). If the box is mostly going to run OS X, I put a 9600 or better in it.

BTW, I ran a Radeon 9600 modified for ADC in my Quicksilver for probably 2 years. That's another fun mod :)
 
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nancyr98765

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
8
1
I'll see if I can dig up some photos of taping this weekend. I don't like doing stuff that's not reversible to the card itself.

Like I said, though, my general procedure is to put a piece of Scotch tape over the back side pins and then carefully cut around 3 and 11 with a sharp knife(an Xacto or scalpel is probably best). Once the tape is cut, you can(carefully) peel off the rest and it should leave a nice block of tape on the pins you want to block.



Where did the OP mention OS 9? Since they've been running a 9600 for a long time, presumably OS 9 isn't a consideration.

When I sit down to plan out a G4 box that I'm going to "build" I decide if it's going to be for OS 9 primarily, or OS X only. If it's intended to be an OS 9 box, I generally put a Geforce 4Ti in it, or at least a different good OS 9 card if I don't have a 4Ti that I want to dedicate to that particular computer at the time(the Geforce 4MX and Radeon 9000 are always solid stand-by choices, and if I'm doing it for someone else the choice between the two is often governed by whether they VGA or DVI for the secondary port). If the box is mostly going to run OS X, I put a 9600 or better in it.

BTW, I ran a Radeon 9600 modified for ADC in my Quicksilver for probably 2 years. That's another fun mod :)
OK, thanks again. I will do the tape. Also, I run OS X :)
 

nancyr98765

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
8
1
I'll see if I can dig up some photos of taping this weekend. I don't like doing stuff that's not reversible to the card itself.

Like I said, though, my general procedure is to put a piece of Scotch tape over the back side pins and then carefully cut around 3 and 11 with a sharp knife(an Xacto or scalpel is probably best). Once the tape is cut, you can(carefully) peel off the rest and it should leave a nice block of tape on the pins you want to block.
Mission accomplished! It wasn't easy and took a couple of tries, but I was able to tape over those pins and lo and behold, the Quicksilver started right up! Amazing, really amazing, and I thank you again.

The only problem is.....the original issue remains, so the video card wasn't the culprit after all!!!!:eek:

So I wonder if you know what I can try next. The problem is that the monitor goes black every so often, sometimes in and out, sometimes out completely, sometimes it works for a while, etc. Everything else seems to work just fine, but video is hit and miss, sporadic, and unreliable. Naturally I thought the vid card was going bad but the new card didn't fix it.

Got any ideas?
Thanks again! :)
 

bunnspecial

macrumors 604
May 3, 2014
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Kentucky
I'd check the cable and/or monitor itself.

Someone mentioned the 9600 being "iffy" in the Quicksilver.

That's somewhat contrary to my experience. There are two Mac versions of the Radeon 9600. What you have is the OEM G5 version, which, once taped, is rock solid and completely reliable in the Quicksilver/DA.

There was a retail Radeon 9600 "PC and Mac edition." It had 256mb of VRAM and DL-DVI(it was attractive since it was the only official avenue for running a 30" Cinema from a G4). This card does not need to be modified, and it was originally advertised as compatible with any G4 with a 4x AGP slot(along with all G5s). This meant the DA, Quicksilver, and MDD. Field testing showed that it could be iffy with the Quicksilver/DA(I list those two together since internally they are more alike than different) and it was later revised to being "only" MDD compatible. I managed to acquire two of these cards in sealed retail packaging, and got them both working in Quicksilvers. They took a bit of fiddling, though-I had to remove and insert them multiple times, and even now when I boot up a computer that has one it's iffy whether or not it will boot(albeit I think I moved one to an MDD).

On the whole, though, I've stuck with G5 9600s in Quicksilvers.
 
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nancyr98765

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Sep 15, 2017
8
1
I'd check the cable and/or monitor itself.

Someone mentioned the 9600 being "iffy" in the Quicksilver.

That's somewhat contrary to my experience. There are two Mac versions of the Radeon 9600. What you have is the OEM G5 version, which, once taped, is rock solid and completely reliable in the Quicksilver/DA.

There was a retail Radeon 9600 "PC and Mac edition." It had 256mb of VRAM and DL-DVI(it was attractive since it was the only official avenue for running a 30" Cinema from a G4). This card does not need to be modified, and it was originally advertised as compatible with any G4 with a 4x AGP slot(along with all G5s). This meant the DA, Quicksilver, and MDD. Field testing showed that it could be iffy with the Quicksilver/DA(I list those two together since internally they are more alike than different) and it was later revised to being "only" MDD compatible. I managed to acquire two of these cards in sealed retail packaging, and got them both working in Quicksilvers. They took a bit of fiddling, though-I had to remove and insert them multiple times, and even now when I boot up a computer that has one it's iffy whether or not it will boot(albeit I think I moved one to an MDD).

On the whole, though, I've stuck with G5 9600s in Quicksilvers.
Thanks. This happens on two different (good) monitors. But I will check the cable, maybe try a new one. This Quicksilver has been rock solid for YEARS. I've had it since about 2004. I don't use it too often anymore but mainly keep it for the SCSI connection to run an old neg scanner. Plus, it's sentimental. And still works.

If the cable isn't the problem, I'll be back posting for more suggestions!
Thank you!
 
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