Loopt to Become First Third-Party iPhone Service to Run in Background

[kdarling]

This concept is an old one

1) History. The ability to buy location information from carriers has been around for many years. At least as long as E911 locating. Before built-in GPS, it was seen as the only way to have helpful locating apps.

2) Privacy. Since your location isn't given unless you allowed it to be, there's no privacy invasion... in theory. In practice, I'd be wary of accepting a phone from an ex-husband without first checking with the carrier.

3) Useful. It makes a great method for general locating without using extra battery. The downside in this case is the almost useless one or two hour granularity in data.

 

[bytethese]

It's 'way easy' for them now. This changes nothing. It's a classic "don't pay for it if you don't want it" situation.

Actually, this changes everything. Before you would only have cell tower triangulated data, I assume now AT&T would have GPS data they are sending to Loopt, which would aide in better pinpointing your location without having to try to install something on the device itself or on your vehicle.

Also gets in a certain legal "sticky" if you will depending on jurisdiction with regards to subpoena vs warrant when you have more precise location information.

 

[VenusianSky]

The way this thread is going, it sounds like every iPhone owner is going to be forced to download this app and pay a monthly fee. How about this, don't buy the app. They will get the idea.

 

[madog]

Stalking?... Even when you give your permission? Huh?!

I give people "permission" to know where I live, but that won't stop some crazy person from stalking me. My gross, fat, hairy body does that.

 

[kdarling]

Actually, this changes everything. Before you would only have cell tower triangulated data, I assume now AT&T would have GPS data they are sending to Loopt, ...

You'd be assuming incorrectly. ATT doesn't obtain GPS data from phones. They just use their own towers to triangulate you, without your phone's help.

U.S. CDMA carriers can have access to each phone's GPS info because their E911 systems were built around using GPS. But the GPS info is only available if it's a 911 call, or if you've enabled locating services and apps.

 

[TMar]

You aren't concerned that AT&T is selling your up-to-the-minute location for profit? This stinks in a lot of ways. It's not totally overboard because they only sell it with your permission. But it is still worrying... a step in the wrong direction.

I guess ignorance is bliss. AT&T already knows you position 100% of the time, and don't think that they don't sell generalized demographic information to market research companies.

 

[iSee]

Sorry but I fail to notice anywhere in the article stating that Apple has anything at all to do with this other than allowing the Loopt app to be sold in their App Store....

The reason Loopt has to buy your location from AT&T is because Apple does not allow Loopt to get the info directly from your device. I like that Apple does not allow third-party background processes. But if they are going to do that they need to provide services that third-parties can tap into. They've done that with notifications (incoming data), but they don't have anything for outgoing data. Actually, current location is just one of the things the iPhone knows. They should expose as much as possible about the state of the device and let apps subscribe to it (with user permission of course). I don't know how all the data could be used, but that's the point: Some third party is going to come up with a brilliant use that I (and more to the point, Apple) never would have thought of or never would have thought anyone would want. Lay it all out there:
* current location, speed, compass
* current app
* current orientation
* current song playing
* battery
* all the settings (wi-fi, brightness, wallpaper, etc.)
* apps installed
* custom dictionary terms
* phone logs, voice mailbox status
I don't know... everything and anything. Let the developers figure out if there's any use to it. Make sure users understand what data they are sharing and with whom and it's all good.

 

[b1wils1]

i believe this my friends...is pointless.

 

[iSee]

I guess ignorance is bliss. AT&T already knows you position 100% of the time, and don't think that they don't sell generalized demographic information to market research companies.

Sure, but now they are selling it to a third party.
And there is a big step between demographic info and your current location.

I realize this isn't a totally new evil from AT&T. It's just them getting another step eviler.

 

[pcorajr]

How stupid, that's all i have to say.

 

[madog]

I realize this isn't a totally new evil from AT&T. It's just them getting another step eviler.

One step closer and they'll be the next Super Devil.

 

[ob81]

Stalking? There's an app for that.

Hahah. Wow. So, at&t made a deal to let someone know my location. Meaning that they are keeping track... Wow.

 

[Cleverboy]

But its not running in the background.
Its taking cell positional data from AT&T's systems and sending it over to loopt. The iPhone app is not running in the background on the phone.

The app is not running in the background, Loopt are talking to AT&T to gain a location.

Edit: Even funnier is that the Mac Rumors article quotes the bit where the app developer says that it doesn't run in the background.

Mm, hm. I'm trying to stretch here, but I'm thinking the ONLY thing that makes this "run in the background" is the fact that it IS polling information specific to your phone (your triangulation data) and reporting it back to the service. Because it may bring AT&T more revenue, they've been happy to step forward and offer this feature for a monthly fee.

The entire point of Apple's new notification system, is that you can run a "background task" on a server, and update the phone by sending message to it. --But, the whole idea of a "background task" isn't about other machines running processes for your computer... its about YOUR computer running processes that you can't immediately see (in the background).

What Silicon Valley Insider MEANT to report... is that Loopt will allow iPhone users to automate "remote updates". With "remote updates" (instead of "running in the background"), AT&T's servers are able to remotely pull information from user's phones, and update Loopt on a regular basis (every couple of hours).

I was trying to peer through the curtains... but someone is SELLING something here regarding this story. It's not MacRumors... so its either The The Business Insider, Loopt, or AT&T. I think its TBI selling the story though. Its a way to "segue" into the topic of "background tasks". I'm surprised though. I've noticed the Loopt service available for some time now inside of my AT&T account page. I'm curiously left wondering if this is "new news" or if TBI just twisted old news into new news by using the "background" buzz word.

I think that's what happened.

~ CB

 

[Wingsy]

GPS or Triangulation?

Anyone know if this uses the iPhone's GPS or via cell-tower triangulation?

When they say "server-to-server" it implies to me that this is cell-tower triangulation ... which seldom produces accurate results.

(Edit): I withdraw the question, after I RTFA.)

 

[slcoss]

While this obviously isn't everyone cup of tea, it will appeal to more than you may think. Think of these scenarios:

1. Someone creates a location based dating app. Basically you are matched based on your profile AND position. Think about walking into a bar and you're phone (and the other persons phone) informs both of you that you are both a good match for each other. That would definitely make it easier to meet people. This can go beyond dating...it could just be interest groups...such as people who love their Apple products

2. High school/college kids and others will like this because many would like to know if their friends are in the area. Say you go to a mall. Your phone informs you that your friend is around. Many will think that is cool. Without it you may have missed your friend.

3. Advertising may suck for some but for other if you can turn it on of off it could be great. You could be informed of great deals while you're driving by a store that you may otherwise may not have known about?

All this probably working via push is nice for the battery too.

Kan-O-Z

I kinda liked this idea too, being at a mall or arriving at a store or whatever and your iphone informing you if one of your friends was close, but then again I wouldn't pay for it...

 

[Cleverboy]

I kinda liked this idea too, being at a mall or arriving at a store or whatever and your iphone informing you if one of your friends was close, but then again I wouldn't pay for it...

It's amazing this idea has gotten this far. There is a wall of privacy (whether amongst adults or even teenagers) where simply being "seen" somewhere can be more information than you want other people to have. To constantly broadcast your whereabouts, whether anyone saw you or not... seems more than a bit invasive, even if its casual and good intentioned.

I say this after setting up my wife's iPhone, and installing "Loopt" and happily informing her that we'd be able to now where each of us was... and getting a fairly disturbed look in response. After telling her that it was only when the app launched... seemed to help, but then I told her I'd added her to my Find My iPhone service too, so... back where we were.

Privacy is privacy, no matter how you slice it. IMing or Texting your GPS coordinates is a BETTER feature. Integrating LOOPT into an IM client, and allowing people to turn on or off GPS broadcasting makes even more sense (especially if it works remotely for updates). A completely SEPARATE app for this becomes confusing and potentially problematic.

~ CB

 

[rishey]

Forget It!

AIDST&T can suck my filthy lyps for charging for this. I hope they die a painful anti-trust death... AGAIN.

 

[ux4all]

Hahah. Wow. So, at&t made a deal to let someone know my location. Meaning that they are keeping track... Wow.

I read that too. Since you are opting into the service, I wonder if it is just a bit they have to flip to start the logging process. Having the logic to track in the code and having the code execute are 2 different things (as we all know).

This is a first-to-market app, so the price should not surprise anyone. It's simple economies of scale. iPhone brought enough $$$ so now AT&T will MMS. Loopt brings enough $$$ and AT&T will expand it (and produce a video with Seth the Blogger too!).

 

[scottness]

Total waste of $4 a month. Loopt should be able to do this for free as a background app. Come on, Apple!!!

 

[Minimoose 360]

I almost crapped my pants when I read the title

and then was highly disappointed. Next!

 

[twoodcc]

nice. but of course they would charge for it. not worth it to me

 

[TMar]

Sure, but now they are selling it to a third party.
And there is a big step between demographic info and your current location.

I realize this isn't a totally new evil from AT&T. It's just them getting another step eviler.

They have been selling that information for years. While it just generalized information that they have been selling (Location, usage, plan and general consumer information). With loopt they are just allowing you to tap into, albeit through a third part, a service they already run for you. They are simply allowing you to use the same service they already offer in the Family tracker thing they offer.

 

[MacFly123]

So let me get this straight... I am supposed to pay $50 a year so people can know where I am at all times??? Ya I'll pass. thanks!

Total waste of $4 a month. Loopt should be able to do this for free as a background app. Come on, Apple!!!

Calm down lol. There is actually truth to what Apple says about concerns with battery life and CPU usage ya know?! I am absolutely positive they will add multi-tasking and are already working on solutions. Battery life will get better, CPUs will get more efficient and so on. It is just a matter of time until they add it. My bet is iPhone OS 4.0 with new hardware. And yes it will probably be an exclusive feature to the new phone due to the more efficient hardware.

You have to look at this as the new mobile computing revolution. The first Apple computers couldn't multi-task either. Give it a little time. I'd rather have them do it right than have a battery that dies in an hour lol! Push is a nice solution for the time being.

 

[pmjoe]

Always-on service beyond the initial trial period will cost $3.99 per month and will appear on users AT&T bills.

$3.99/month? ROTFLMAO!

AT&T should be paying me for the right to sell this info, not the other way around.

 

[Jetson]

How long will it be before they monitor your location (WITHOUT your permission).

Remember, AT&T was the company that co-operated with the Bush regime to secretly pass all internet traffic to the NSA.