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Losing Two-Factor Recovery Key Could Permanently Lock Apple ID
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Apple should adopt the Abbott and Costello: Three Step Process (any two of three)
First: Who
Second: What
Third: I Don't Know
First: Who
Second: What
Third: I Don't Know
Most likely would just follow Apple's instructions and warnings. No problems, no drama.
how are you guys not getting this?
The answer is in the name: "2 factor authentication". It doesn't mean "so strong you can never get back in" or "better than X". It just means: you need to have two "things" to authenticate with. You get at least three:
Password
iOS device
Recovery key
The whole point of having three is so that there is some redundancy - a failsafe. If you don't use 2FA then Apple gives you a different failsafe: "personal" questions which help identify you.
Imagine if you tried to login to your email account and it locked you out because you couldn't remember the license plate to your first car (or whatever the recovery question was), even though you still had your password.
The issue is this: Apple's 2FA sometimes needs the recovery key as *well* as the other 2 factors. That makes it sometimes 3-factor-authentication. If they warned you about that then it would be ok - you could then choose not to use it unless you have the facilities to store multiple copies of your recovery key securely (e.g. multiple safety deposit boxes).
The answer is in the name: "2 factor authentication". It doesn't mean "so strong you can never get back in" or "better than X". It just means: you need to have two "things" to authenticate with. You get at least three:
Password
iOS device
Recovery key
The whole point of having three is so that there is some redundancy - a failsafe. If you don't use 2FA then Apple gives you a different failsafe: "personal" questions which help identify you.
Imagine if you tried to login to your email account and it locked you out because you couldn't remember the license plate to your first car (or whatever the recovery question was), even though you still had your password.
The issue is this: Apple's 2FA sometimes needs the recovery key as *well* as the other 2 factors. That makes it sometimes 3-factor-authentication. If they warned you about that then it would be ok - you could then choose not to use it unless you have the facilities to store multiple copies of your recovery key securely (e.g. multiple safety deposit boxes).
I was locked out of my Apple ID two months ago as I moved to a more secure password. It's now so secure that even *I* can't access my account. Doh!
The blame for this is entirely with me (accidentally overwriting a 16 character, randomly-generated password in my paste buffer with something else while using 1Password, and not being able to find my Recovery Key).
I completely understand Apple's position on not being able to help and imagine this would have been music to the ears of anyone who *hadn't* just lost their sign-in details.
The penalty for these lapses of concentration is severe, though. All of my app, music, book and film downloads (iOS and Mac OS), backups, saved app data, as well as other things I may not have thought of yet - gone. Plus the time required to set everything up again, including new email addresses for use with a new ID.
As the rest of this thread has already pointed out, there's no way for me to regain control of my own account. A human-based, real-world approach that can be used as a fall-back option is entirely missing. Banks have alternative measures for these scenarios, and I hope that online account security develops something similar as people roll more and more of themselves into online storage. (Imagine if your bank told you that there was nothing they could do and that the contents of your accounts were now theirs.)
It feels like the ingredients are there for a solution to this type of problem:
a) The locked Apple ID contains personal details that Apple can review/compare to documentation provided later
b) There's a record of the downloads made against the locked Apple ID
c) The user has all sorts of evidence that they are who they say they are, and that the account is theirs:
- personal physical IDs;
- trusted devices (I'd have had four of them!);
- credit cards linked to the ID (again, I'd have had several);
- responses to the security questions (if any);
- an indication of their last 5 purchases.
It feels like it should follow that the downloads should be movable to another Apple ID that the user *does* have control over.
Ways that this could happen:
1) Locked out user provides sufficient evidence (point c) above) in person (at an Apple Store, perhaps, or even a police station) that they are the owner of the locked Apple ID;
2) Satisfied by now (hopefully!) that the user is the rightful owner of the Apple ID, Apple could then reset the account security as outlined above. (A charge could even be levied for the service. I'd willingly have paid it!)
As it is, my locked account continues to exist, and contains data that I can't update or remove. This zombie account is of no use to Apple, and - assuming a worst case scenario - could even fall into someone else's hands were a data breach to take place. Surely this isn't a good state for data to be left in, and the above a decent approach for improving the situation?
The blame for this is entirely with me (accidentally overwriting a 16 character, randomly-generated password in my paste buffer with something else while using 1Password, and not being able to find my Recovery Key).
I completely understand Apple's position on not being able to help and imagine this would have been music to the ears of anyone who *hadn't* just lost their sign-in details.
The penalty for these lapses of concentration is severe, though. All of my app, music, book and film downloads (iOS and Mac OS), backups, saved app data, as well as other things I may not have thought of yet - gone. Plus the time required to set everything up again, including new email addresses for use with a new ID.
As the rest of this thread has already pointed out, there's no way for me to regain control of my own account. A human-based, real-world approach that can be used as a fall-back option is entirely missing. Banks have alternative measures for these scenarios, and I hope that online account security develops something similar as people roll more and more of themselves into online storage. (Imagine if your bank told you that there was nothing they could do and that the contents of your accounts were now theirs.)
It feels like the ingredients are there for a solution to this type of problem:
a) The locked Apple ID contains personal details that Apple can review/compare to documentation provided later
b) There's a record of the downloads made against the locked Apple ID
c) The user has all sorts of evidence that they are who they say they are, and that the account is theirs:
- personal physical IDs;
- trusted devices (I'd have had four of them!);
- credit cards linked to the ID (again, I'd have had several);
- responses to the security questions (if any);
- an indication of their last 5 purchases.
It feels like it should follow that the downloads should be movable to another Apple ID that the user *does* have control over.
Ways that this could happen:
1) Locked out user provides sufficient evidence (point c) above) in person (at an Apple Store, perhaps, or even a police station) that they are the owner of the locked Apple ID;
2) Satisfied by now (hopefully!) that the user is the rightful owner of the Apple ID, Apple could then reset the account security as outlined above. (A charge could even be levied for the service. I'd willingly have paid it!)
As it is, my locked account continues to exist, and contains data that I can't update or remove. This zombie account is of no use to Apple, and - assuming a worst case scenario - could even fall into someone else's hands were a data breach to take place. Surely this isn't a good state for data to be left in, and the above a decent approach for improving the situation?
Yeowch. That sucks!
This is why I'm always careful with my password manager to turn on the setting that saves previous passwords!
I totally agree. Their system has gone over the top to the point of being unreasonable. There are plenty of ways of keeping the security while not completely screwing legitimate users.
This is why I'm always careful with my password manager to turn on the setting that saves previous passwords!
I totally agree. Their system has gone over the top to the point of being unreasonable. There are plenty of ways of keeping the security while not completely screwing legitimate users.
I would actually say, its about time Apple we got this security feature...
While it may be overkill, users won't do anything..... That may be where Apple is comming from..
Still. Apple tell u...user says they know better, then they loose their key..
Its their fault ...
Its basically saying, Apple should actually allow us if we act stupid....
I never use a recovery key, but if i even did loose access, them it will be my fault.... i will know that.... and it will just re-iterate, that i should know better next time..
I have no idea of my security answers and never keep it record anywhere..... so yes, that's another point of failure... but i feel like it, that's the way it should be...
I don't need any help from Apple.
While it may be overkill, users won't do anything..... That may be where Apple is comming from..
Still. Apple tell u...user says they know better, then they loose their key..
Its their fault ...
Its basically saying, Apple should actually allow us if we act stupid....
I never use a recovery key, but if i even did loose access, them it will be my fault.... i will know that.... and it will just re-iterate, that i should know better next time..
I have no idea of my security answers and never keep it record anywhere..... so yes, that's another point of failure... but i feel like it, that's the way it should be...
I don't need any help from Apple.