Loss of quality when importing from Livetype to FCE

Discussion in 'Digital Video' started by JinsterBeady, Nov 15, 2011.

  1. JinsterBeady macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    #1
    Hey guys,
    I've googled the hell out of this problem but am unable to find any actual answer to why this keeps happening.

    2 problems.

    First off,
    Whenever I use Livetype, it looks brilliant in the viewer but incredibly bad in the canvas. I always make sure all of the settings match to the point where I've even converted it in toast to make it match absolutely completely.
    I render the entire timeline and it still looks bad.
    Sometimes when I export the timeline it ends up looking fine in quicktime.
    Any ideas?


    Secondly,
    I'm currently working on a bunch of titles in Livetype. In all of the titles, one word is a reddy/maroon colour.

    Every time I render/save, it looks fine. However when it is imported into FCE, the colour fades/goes blurry.
    I've had a play around with project settings in both cases but nothing makes it better.

    Will list them anyway just in case I'm missing something/don't get it.

    FCE Sequence

    Frame Size - 720x576
    Vid Rate - 25p
    DV-PAL
    Pixel Aspect - Square


    What should the settings be in Livetype?!

    Let me know if I've missed anything...
    Thanks. =)
     
  2. Kevin Monahan macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2011
    #2
    If you are not monitoring playback on a video monitor, set the Canvas to 100% to see the image without re-sampling. If it looks fine on export, no need to worry.

    Red is a tough color for video, you should make sure it is not too saturated. In pro NLEs, that's why we use the vectorscope.

    Pixel Aspect should be D1/DV PAL non-square, not square. This should have nothing to do with your color issues, however.
     
  3. JinsterBeady thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    #3
    Thanks so much for your reply.
    Will do on the canvas and will check the saturation. However you're saying that if I'm unable to get the red I want, I may have to choose another colour? I'm unaware of Vectorscoping however I think it's safe to say I will be unable to get my hands on it!

    As for the square/non square, I've never seen a place to choose between the two?
    I'll have a look around but is there a quick point in the right direction you could give me?
     
  4. JinsterBeady thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    #4
    Sorry for another post but what I also don't get is why it looks brilliant when rendered in Live Type. When played, the red is beautiful.
    Why when put into FCE does it need to change?
     
  5. martinX macrumors 6502a

    martinX

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Location:
    Australia
    #5
    Are you importing the LiveType project into FCE, or rendering out as a QuickTime .mov and importing that?
     
  6. JinsterBeady thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    #6
    I tried both.
    Neither looked any good when in FCE or after exported from FCE.
    Devil!
     
  7. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #7
    I haven't used LiveType in ages but my guess is that what you are seeing in LiveType is a higher resolution (possibly uncompressed) representation and after you drop it in the FCE timeline you see the effects that DV compression can have on GFX.


    Lethal
     
  8. JinsterBeady thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    #8
    So, Livetype is only used to its full potential when not using DV?

    Lame.
     
  9. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 2002
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #9
    Pretty much. DV is not a very friendly codec when it comes to GFX and, like Kevin said, red is a very difficult color for any type of video compression, not just DV.


    Lethal
     
  10. JinsterBeady thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
  11. martinX macrumors 6502a

    martinX

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Location:
    Australia
    #11
    Can you attach the LiveType .ipr file here? Or at least a small representation of the colour(s) and type you are having trouble with.

    The guys are right about DV being so-so, and red being problematic (especially on straight black) but I'd like to take a look at the file nonetheless.
     
  12. JinsterBeady thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    #12
    Would love to. But doesn't seem to let me upload?
     
  13. cgbier macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    #13
    Try to name that file .lpr.txt - that trick works on other fora I hang out.
     
  14. JinsterBeady thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
  15. cgbier macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2011
    #15
    Font is missing...

    I read your red as 178,0,4. Not really a very bright red. Looks rather dull on my MBP monitor.
     
  16. martinX macrumors 6502a

    martinX

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Location:
    Australia
    #16
    Welcome fellow DV PAL user.

    I took the IPR (after I grabbed the appropriate font) and dropped it into a PAL DV sequence in FCP 2 . Once rendered, it looked pretty bad in the canvas. It looked OK on my monitor (pro Panasonic standard def CRT type monitor) but you could tell it wasn't happy with the full-on red - it was 'pulsing'. Still, the rendered one in the canvas looked bad in a different way - interlacing. How I hate interlacing.

    I changed your LT project so it more closely matched the FCP sequence - you originally had a custom setting of the right frame sizes so I just made it CCIR PAL Sq 4:3. Almost identical but I think it made a difference. Not so much for rendered in canvas, or displayed on the monitor, but I exported it as a self-contained MOV (DV codec) and it looked fine played back in QT X.

    I then burned the sequence to DVD using Toast and played it back on a regular DVD player over composite on my Panasonic CRT monitor - looks fine, but the red is still a little "pulsy", but you really don't notice it that much - which harks back to what the others were saying about full red being a bit of a problem. Looks OK on a shi77y Sony LCD panel too.

    Bottom line: change the LT project to CCIR PAL Sq 4:3 and I think all will be well for your PAL DV project. Research on how to best display red if you still think it's a problem.

    DV is a fairly basic codec that has its quirks and limitations, but I still love it. It's like that three legged dog we all know: friendly, loyal, easy to get on with, but we all know it won't ever win a race or a beauty contest.
     
  17. JinsterBeady thread starter macrumors member

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2011
    #17
    Would that have something to do with the fact that I took away a lot of the saturation?
    As I said previously as well, I was trying to work more with a maroon/red.
    It's not exceptionally bright.


    martinX thanks for going to the effort! It does seem to be a lot better!
    I could swear I tried those settings. =S It's all really getting on my nerves! Ha.
    But thank you very much.
    Unfortunately the video has already been finished for the client but it is excellent to know for future.
    Thanks everyone so much for your help.
    Tip of the hat martinX.

    Maybe you could give me a hand on my Newest question! ;)

    http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1281702
     

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