Loss of quality when importing from Livetype to FCE

JinsterBeady

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 8, 2011
33
0
Hey guys,
I've googled the hell out of this problem but am unable to find any actual answer to why this keeps happening.

2 problems.

First off,
Whenever I use Livetype, it looks brilliant in the viewer but incredibly bad in the canvas. I always make sure all of the settings match to the point where I've even converted it in toast to make it match absolutely completely.
I render the entire timeline and it still looks bad.
Sometimes when I export the timeline it ends up looking fine in quicktime.
Any ideas?


Secondly,
I'm currently working on a bunch of titles in Livetype. In all of the titles, one word is a reddy/maroon colour.

Every time I render/save, it looks fine. However when it is imported into FCE, the colour fades/goes blurry.
I've had a play around with project settings in both cases but nothing makes it better.

Will list them anyway just in case I'm missing something/don't get it.

FCE Sequence

Frame Size - 720x576
Vid Rate - 25p
DV-PAL
Pixel Aspect - Square


What should the settings be in Livetype?!

Let me know if I've missed anything...
Thanks. =)
 

Kevin Monahan

macrumors regular
Feb 23, 2011
161
1
First off,
Whenever I use Livetype, it looks brilliant in the viewer but incredibly bad in the canvas.
If you are not monitoring playback on a video monitor, set the Canvas to 100% to see the image without re-sampling. If it looks fine on export, no need to worry.

I'm currently working on a bunch of titles in Livetype. In all of the titles, one word is a reddy/maroon colour.

Every time I render/save, it looks fine. However when it is imported into FCE, the colour fades/goes blurry.
Red is a tough color for video, you should make sure it is not too saturated. In pro NLEs, that's why we use the vectorscope.

FCE Sequence

Frame Size - 720x576
Vid Rate - 25p
DV-PAL
Pixel Aspect - Square
Pixel Aspect should be D1/DV PAL non-square, not square. This should have nothing to do with your color issues, however.
 

JinsterBeady

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 8, 2011
33
0
If you are not monitoring playback on a video monitor, set the Canvas to 100% to see the image without re-sampling. If it looks fine on export, no need to worry.


Red is a tough color for video, you should make sure it is not too saturated. In pro NLEs, that's why we use the vectorscope.



Pixel Aspect should be D1/DV PAL non-square, not square. This should have nothing to do with your color issues, however.
Thanks so much for your reply.
Will do on the canvas and will check the saturation. However you're saying that if I'm unable to get the red I want, I may have to choose another colour? I'm unaware of Vectorscoping however I think it's safe to say I will be unable to get my hands on it!

As for the square/non square, I've never seen a place to choose between the two?
I'll have a look around but is there a quick point in the right direction you could give me?
 

JinsterBeady

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 8, 2011
33
0
Sorry for another post but what I also don't get is why it looks brilliant when rendered in Live Type. When played, the red is beautiful.
Why when put into FCE does it need to change?
 

martinX

macrumors 6502a
Aug 11, 2009
866
77
Australia
Are you importing the LiveType project into FCE, or rendering out as a QuickTime .mov and importing that?
 

JinsterBeady

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 8, 2011
33
0
I tried both.
Neither looked any good when in FCE or after exported from FCE.
Devil!
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,368
119
Los Angeles
I haven't used LiveType in ages but my guess is that what you are seeing in LiveType is a higher resolution (possibly uncompressed) representation and after you drop it in the FCE timeline you see the effects that DV compression can have on GFX.


Lethal
 

LethalWolfe

macrumors G3
Jan 11, 2002
9,368
119
Los Angeles
Pretty much. DV is not a very friendly codec when it comes to GFX and, like Kevin said, red is a very difficult color for any type of video compression, not just DV.


Lethal
 

martinX

macrumors 6502a
Aug 11, 2009
866
77
Australia
Can you attach the LiveType .ipr file here? Or at least a small representation of the colour(s) and type you are having trouble with.

The guys are right about DV being so-so, and red being problematic (especially on straight black) but I'd like to take a look at the file nonetheless.
 

cgbier

macrumors 6502a
Jun 6, 2011
933
2
Font is missing...

I read your red as 178,0,4. Not really a very bright red. Looks rather dull on my MBP monitor.
 

martinX

macrumors 6502a
Aug 11, 2009
866
77
Australia
Welcome fellow DV PAL user.

I took the IPR (after I grabbed the appropriate font) and dropped it into a PAL DV sequence in FCP 2 . Once rendered, it looked pretty bad in the canvas. It looked OK on my monitor (pro Panasonic standard def CRT type monitor) but you could tell it wasn't happy with the full-on red - it was 'pulsing'. Still, the rendered one in the canvas looked bad in a different way - interlacing. How I hate interlacing.

I changed your LT project so it more closely matched the FCP sequence - you originally had a custom setting of the right frame sizes so I just made it CCIR PAL Sq 4:3. Almost identical but I think it made a difference. Not so much for rendered in canvas, or displayed on the monitor, but I exported it as a self-contained MOV (DV codec) and it looked fine played back in QT X.

I then burned the sequence to DVD using Toast and played it back on a regular DVD player over composite on my Panasonic CRT monitor - looks fine, but the red is still a little "pulsy", but you really don't notice it that much - which harks back to what the others were saying about full red being a bit of a problem. Looks OK on a shi77y Sony LCD panel too.

Bottom line: change the LT project to CCIR PAL Sq 4:3 and I think all will be well for your PAL DV project. Research on how to best display red if you still think it's a problem.

DV is a fairly basic codec that has its quirks and limitations, but I still love it. It's like that three legged dog we all know: friendly, loyal, easy to get on with, but we all know it won't ever win a race or a beauty contest.
 

JinsterBeady

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 8, 2011
33
0
Font is missing...

I read your red as 178,0,4. Not really a very bright red. Looks rather dull on my MBP monitor.
Would that have something to do with the fact that I took away a lot of the saturation?
As I said previously as well, I was trying to work more with a maroon/red.
It's not exceptionally bright.


martinX thanks for going to the effort! It does seem to be a lot better!
I could swear I tried those settings. =S It's all really getting on my nerves! Ha.
But thank you very much.
Unfortunately the video has already been finished for the client but it is excellent to know for future.
Thanks everyone so much for your help.
Tip of the hat martinX.

Maybe you could give me a hand on my Newest question! ;)

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1281702/
 
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