Lots of headaches researching SSDs

[wikus]

I've heard reports that the SSD will work better in the normal HDD position, especially if it is SATA III, so I think I'm going to do it the other way around. But thanks for the link!

the main hdd bay has an antishock-release mechanism (from what ive been told on macrumors), which would make sense to keep the HDD in its default bay and put the ssd in the ODD bay.

 

[thundersteele]

Concerning the capacity question: Since you want to have a Win7 partition, you should probably go for a 256 GB drive. You will want at least 40-50 GB for windows, ideally more if you want to install more than one game at a time.

I'm using a 128 GB SSD just for OSX. It has 65 GB left, including one 6 GB game and otherwise just software and data that I use regularly. I already pushed my ~10 GB of music to google music from my old machine so it doesn't take away storage. I will be fine for the next 1-2 years, but I wouldn't feel comfortable allocating 30-40 GB for windows right now.

 

[simsaladimbamba]

the main hdd bay has an antishock-release mechanism (from what ive been told on macrumors), which would make sense to keep the HDD in its default bay and put the ssd in the ODD bay.

That is correct, it is called Sudden Motion Sensor and only works in the HDD bay, thus I put the HDD there, as my MBP has two S-ATA 3.0 Gbps (S-ATA II) interfaces.
The 2011 MBPs come at least with one S-ATA 6.0 Gbps (S-ATA III) interface, the HDD bay, but some reports indicate, that some 2011 MBPs have two S-ATA 6.0 Gbps (S-ATA III) interfaces.

 

[ando27]

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the main hdd bay has an antishock-release mechanism (from what ive been told on macrumors), which would make sense to keep the HDD in its default bay and put the ssd in the ODD bay.

That is correct, it is called Sudden Motion Sensor and only works in the HDD bay, thus I put the HDD there, as my MBP has two S-ATA 3.0 Gbps (S-ATA II) interfaces.
The 2011 MBPs come at least with one S-ATA 6.0 Gbps (S-ATA III) interface, the HDD bay, but some reports indicate, that some 2011 MBPs have two S-ATA 6.0 Gbps (S-ATA III) interfaces.

Alright, another thing to worry about! I remember reading a document on these forums that said that the sudden motion sensor works in the optical bay too if you leave it enabled, is this not true? Also how big of a deal is it to switch the SDD and hdd after installing them?

 

[GGJstudios]

Alright, another thing to worry about! I remember reading a document on these forums that said that the sudden motion sensor works in the optical bay too if you leave it enabled, is this not true? Also how big of a deal is it to switch the SDD and hdd after installing them?

No, the SMS does not work in the optical bay.

 

[GermanyChris]

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Alright, another thing to worry about! I remember reading a document on these forums that said that the sudden motion sensor works in the optical bay too if you leave it enabled, is this not true? Also how big of a deal is it to switch the SDD and hdd after installing them?

the better question is why would you want something that spins and vibrates put in a place that has no vibration dampening?

If I were you I'd take the new mac and all of the parts you purchased to a computer store and have them do it..While you're asking questions in the pursuit of knowledge which is great the questions your asking are fairly basic and your pondering taking apart a $1200-$3000 computer before you even use it. Pay some one the 30 or 40 it's going to cost and watch them do. It's much cheaper than going to the apple store with a "well see I was trying to change the drive and......"

 

[ando27]

the better question is why would you want something that spins and vibrates put in a place that has no vibration dampening?

If I were you I'd take the new mac and all of the parts you purchased to a computer store and have them do it..While you're asking questions in the pursuit of knowledge which is great the questions your asking are fairly basic and your pondering taking apart a $1200-$3000 computer before you even use it. Pay some one the 30 or 40 it's going to cost and watch them do. It's much cheaper than going to the apple store with a "well see I was trying to change the drive and......"

The reason I was contemplating taking it apart before I even use it was because I bought a refurb due to a good deal and thus want to upgrade the specs since I couldn't do it in the first place. I'm not sure why this doesn't make sense. Also not sure why if you say my questions are basic why there is a serious lack of information on this.

While your response was phrased nicely it was still rather condescending. With a day of research and a forum post I built my first PC no problem. I can do this and honestly trust me more than others anyway.

 

[GermanyChris]

The reason I was contemplating taking it apart before I even use it was because I bought a refurb due to a good deal and thus want to upgrade the specs since I couldn't do it in the first place. I'm not sure why this doesn't make sense. Also not sure why if you say my questions are basic why there is a serious lack of information on this.

While your response was phrased nicely it was still rather condescending. With a day of research and a forum post I built my first PC no problem. I can do this and honestly trust me more than others anyway.

I wasn't trying to be condescending but if thats the way you took it I do apologize.

Let us know how it works.

 

[ando27]

I wasn't trying to be condescending but if thats the way you took it I do apologize.

Let us know how it works.

It's ok, I was in the middle of a meeting that was wasting an hour and a half of my already packed day. I guess I was a little uptight. I will definitely be reporting back when it's all said and done. Wish me luck!

 

[bdinger]

I have a nearly identical configuration, except for mine has the antiglare, and had the same goals as you when I started out. Here's my answers, hope they help!

1.) 128GB should be plenty. I have a 128GB Crucial C300 SSD as my boot drive, and I have a ton of applications (already) including rather heavy ones like Final Cut Pro X, Aperture, Motion, and MS Office. I also keep my current FCPx project on the SSD, that one right now is ~18GB. I have 29 GB free currently.

2.) That's precisely what I did, except I used Lion Internet Recovery. It worked perfectly for me, the entire restore process took about an hour.

2b) If it's brand new, you shouldn't have to - the installer will do that for you. If not, in Lion Internet Recovery you have the ability to use Utilities (there will be a menu for it) and open Disk Utility to format it. Works like a charm.

3.) I used the MCE Optibay adapter and was very pleased at the completeness of the kit, instructions, and included tools. Granted I already know how to do it, and have the tools, but I thought "wow, this is great for those who don't know this stuff" when I was doing it. It's as easy as formatting and partitioning the drive using Disk Utility after it's installed. Just use Spotlight to search for it.

4.) Need? Excellent question that has many answers. Summary: it helps. I have it on both my MBP and my white MacBook, on the latter when I enabled it I noticed a rather significant increase. That machine has a Intel X-25M G2 SSD, which does have garbage collection, but TRIM definitely helped. Most modern SSD's have built in garbage collection that reportedly does a very good job, but I've always went the TRIM route. If you Google for "enable TRIM Lion" you'll run across very good howtos on the method behind the madness.

Again I just - in the past two weeks - did the same thing with the same machine and am beyond pleased with the result. Insanely fast laptop that's also a serious workhorse with the additional storage. I'm very sure you'll be quite happy with it, I know I am.

So, if anyone can answer the following questions, I would be forever grateful to you for making my life so much easier.

1) I won't ask which SSD is the best, though I still haven't decided between Samsung 830 or Crucial m4, but if I want to install OSX Lion, Windows 7, Steam + a few games (probably just Skyrim and one or two other games max) as well as an application or two, like iTunes, Skype and Microsoft Office, is 128GB enough or should I go for the 256GB drive?

2) When installing this SSD, can I just unbox the brand new machine, open it up, take out HDD, put in SSD and boot it up with Lion recovery CD in there, or do I need to do something special to format the SSD first?

2b) If I do need to format the drive, how do I do this?

3) What's the best accessory to get to replace the optical drive with the HDD and how do I set it up to be storage for music/movies and other nonessential applications? Can it be split so some applications install on the HDD and others on the SSD?

4) Do I need TRIM and how do I make it work so it doesn't mess everything up?

I think this encompasses all the questions that are currently making my head swim and I can't seem to find any direct answers for. I hope someone here can help me out. Many thanks!

----------

the better question is why would you want something that spins and vibrates put in a place that has no vibration dampening?

FWIW I have my 750GB 7200rpm stock disk in a MCE Optibay Adapter and I notice no vibration or noise, and I work the thing pretty dang hard.

 

[maguuh]

Not sure if you found what you are looking for but I installed a samsung 830 into my macbook last night. Just swap the drives you'll need a #0 phillips and a torx screwdriver to remove it. Boot into recovery mode (command+R), use disk utility to first create a partion on the drive, then use the lion internet recovery. Should take about a little over an hour to get up and running. Hope this helps.

 

[ando27]

I have a nearly identical configuration, except for mine has the antiglare, and had the same goals as you when I started out. Here's my answers, hope they help!

1.) 128GB should be plenty. I have a 128GB Crucial C300 SSD as my boot drive, and I have a ton of applications (already) including rather heavy ones like Final Cut Pro X, Aperture, Motion, and MS Office. I also keep my current FCPx project on the SSD, that one right now is ~18GB. I have 29 GB free currently.

2.) That's precisely what I did, except I used Lion Internet Recovery. It worked perfectly for me, the entire restore process took about an hour.

2b) If it's brand new, you shouldn't have to - the installer will do that for you. If not, in Lion Internet Recovery you have the ability to use Utilities (there will be a menu for it) and open Disk Utility to format it. Works like a charm.

3.) I used the MCE Optibay adapter and was very pleased at the completeness of the kit, instructions, and included tools. Granted I already know how to do it, and have the tools, but I thought "wow, this is great for those who don't know this stuff" when I was doing it. It's as easy as formatting and partitioning the drive using Disk Utility after it's installed. Just use Spotlight to search for it.

4.) Need? Excellent question that has many answers. Summary: it helps. I have it on both my MBP and my white MacBook, on the latter when I enabled it I noticed a rather significant increase. That machine has a Intel X-25M G2 SSD, which does have garbage collection, but TRIM definitely helped. Most modern SSD's have built in garbage collection that reportedly does a very good job, but I've always went the TRIM route. If you Google for "enable TRIM Lion" you'll run across very good howtos on the method behind the madness.

Again I just - in the past two weeks - did the same thing with the same machine and am beyond pleased with the result. Insanely fast laptop that's also a serious workhorse with the additional storage. I'm very sure you'll be quite happy with it, I know I am.



----------



FWIW I have my 750GB 7200rpm stock disk in a MCE Optibay Adapter and I notice no vibration or noise, and I work the thing pretty dang hard.

Many, many thanks! This is exactly what I am looking for - and so nicely organized, too! Also, I have the anti-glare as well, so looks like we'll be running the exact same system.

Now, I have only one additional question, which drive is in which position? Originally I wanted to put the SSD in the hard drive slot to take advantage of the SATA III speeds, but now people are saying that putting a spinning drive in the optical slot will cause it to be susceptible to vibrations (although I've read information stating the contrary). So, at this point I'm not sure - since I've also read that you can get SATA III speeds from the optical bay for the SSD. Long story short, I just bought a $350 SSD to use it at max speed and don't want to bottleneck it.

So, again, your feedback would be much appreciated!

P.S. - Oh, just quickly reread your post and Lion Internet Recovery works even without powering the mac on first? I mean, I'm probably going to do that anyway, but just curious now.

 

[bdinger]

Many, many thanks! This is exactly what I am looking for - and so nicely organized, too! Also, I have the anti-glare as well, so looks like we'll be running the exact same system.

Now, I have only one additional question, which drive is in which position? Originally I wanted to put the SSD in the hard drive slot to take advantage of the SATA III speeds, but now people are saying that putting a spinning drive in the optical slot will cause it to be susceptible to vibrations (although I've read information stating the contrary). So, at this point I'm not sure - since I've also read that you can get SATA III speeds from the optical bay for the SSD. Long story short, I just bought a $350 SSD to use it at max speed and don't want to bottleneck it.

So, again, your feedback would be much appreciated!

P.S. - Oh, just quickly reread your post and Lion Internet Recovery works even without powering the mac on first? I mean, I'm probably going to do that anyway, but just curious now.

On the first question, I haven't noticed any vibration or negative behavior having the HDD in the optibay, in fact I don't even notice that it's there. And I use mine a LOT and am picky about those kind of things, so I would likely notice. I don't think vibration really will be an issue, I put mine in the same spot due to the same concerns you had.

That said, System Profiler shows me that SATA III is indeed enabled on the optibay, so in retrospect I could have saved myself a little time and effort and just put the SSD there. Oh well .

Also absolutely correct on Lion Internet Recovery. On my second MBP I never even powered it on, just went straight to a full recovery.

You'll be very happy with the machine. This is easily the best computer I've ever had, and I've had some pretty nice machines in the past.

 

[ando27]

On the first question, I haven't noticed any vibration or negative behavior having the HDD in the optibay, in fact I don't even notice that it's there. And I use mine a LOT and am picky about those kind of things, so I would likely notice. I don't think vibration really will be an issue, I put mine in the same spot due to the same concerns you had.

That said, System Profiler shows me that SATA III is indeed enabled on the optibay, so in retrospect I could have saved myself a little time and effort and just put the SSD there. Oh well .

Also absolutely correct on Lion Internet Recovery. On my second MBP I never even powered it on, just went straight to a full recovery.

You'll be very happy with the machine. This is easily the best computer I've ever had, and I've had some pretty nice machines in the past.

I have to say, Internet Recovery is one of those things that makes me grateful for sticking with Mac. Sure I need to run bootcamp to play a game usually, but I do that rarely (well, not so much anymore with Skyrim) and the functionality on Mac is just so amazing. Apple's products really "just work." (Except for iTunes Match. That is pretty much complete crap)

Very interesting to find out that SATA III is enabled in the Optical bay, though! Thanks for checking. My laptop is currently en route to my house, but as I won't be home for the next few days while my other equipment comes in (tools, MCE OptiBay, Samsung 830) I'll probably end up going the same route you did not and just do a fresh install. Perhaps I will put the Samsung 830 in the OptiBay instead, but I'm not sure. That thing is $400 while I could get another one of the 750GB drives for probably around $50, so I may just put that in there for peace of mind.

Thanks again!

EDIT: Looks like we can't actually take advantage of SATA III in the ODD even though it's supported. Shame. Hope there is a firmware upgrade or something that can fix this.

Indeed I have a late model 2011 MBP with the intel 6 series chipset for both the optibay and main drive bays. This is what I have found to date by actually trying it and product research.



A SATA 3 SSD/HDD will connect at 6GB negotiated link speed, but will not operate with data.
A SATA 2 SSD/HDD will connect at 3GB and will operate with data.

So if your thinking of that SATA 6 RAID on this device, think SATA 2 instead. Yes, RAID works fine on this model, but at 3GB max. Make sure you use a SATA 2 device only and not a backwards compatible SATA 3, because this device will connect at 6GB instead of the 3GB that you can actually use, and there is no way to control it unless the drive itself has an external switch for SATA 2/3.



The folks over at OWC has a very good read on this issue. Basically, Apple currently does not support SATA 3 use on the Optibay due warrenty and official support. Some models like the 2011 MBP 13" can obtain SATA 3 use on the optibay. There are several technical issues responsible for this, but it all boils down to factory support. If you are lucky enough to get SATA 3 functionaliy for your model, then good for you.



It really is a shame to have such fine hardware in place, but unable to fully utilize it due factory policy.

 

[bdinger]

I have to say, Internet Recovery is one of those things that makes me grateful for sticking with Mac. Sure I need to run bootcamp to play a game usually, but I do that rarely (well, not so much anymore with Skyrim) and the functionality on Mac is just so amazing. Apple's products really "just work." (Except for iTunes Match. That is pretty much complete crap)

Very interesting to find out that SATA III is enabled in the Optical bay, though! Thanks for checking. My laptop is currently en route to my house, but as I won't be home for the next few days while my other equipment comes in (tools, MCE OptiBay, Samsung 830) I'll probably end up going the same route you did not and just do a fresh install. Perhaps I will put the Samsung 830 in the OptiBay instead, but I'm not sure. That thing is $400 while I could get another one of the 750GB drives for probably around $50, so I may just put that in there for peace of mind.

Thanks again!

EDIT: Looks like we can't actually take advantage of SATA III in the ODD even though it's supported. Shame. Hope there is a firmware upgrade or something that can fix this.

Yikes, well I'm glad I put it in the HDD bay as I likely would have noticed when working with video. That's when most limitations of my systems rear their ugly head.