Love my Mac but the apps aren't there.......

[bousozoku]

Macvault, can you list the 999 features that are missing from Mail? Or maybe you were exaggerating a bit... list 99?

There's not a single feature that I want Mail to have that it doesn't. I can see on the dock when I have mail, I can read the mail, I can respond. No annoying backgrounds, art, etc. Attachments always work perfectly for me. Please, , don't add anything.

Compared to Outlook, Mac OS X's mail application is missing a lot, primarily group and resource scheduling.

 

[Soulstorm]

I am an architect and am used to the PC apps [Autocad, Revit and 3DS Max]. Archicad has an uncertain future in my opinion, so I don't want to waste time with it [and it is the only option on the mac, really]

I run both Bootcamp and OSX to work and love my Mac to bits, however I have become sick of OSX for my business, and am now going to commit 100% to XP for work [I have used macs for a fair while now]

The reasons are

1. It is vastly easier to get a decent network going with XP [for me anyway].

2. All the software I really need runs on PC only.

3. Outlook for PC is great and compatible with the rest of the world.

4. Is just as fast, and crashes the same amount of times, no matter what people say.

5. Vista is basically OSX visually, which was my main draw.

I really do love using OSX but have now come to the conclusion that it is not a practical solution for me. The dual boot is an absolute pain.

Do you guys think I am throwing in the towel in too easily, or does anyone else get sick of bootcamp.

I just hope Parallels gets 3D support etc. otherwise it will have to be a microsoft future for me.............

Sounds to me like you're trying to use your mac like it was a PC. One or two points that I want to comment on:

1. I really don't know what kind of network is this, but if XP's have anything easier than OS X's similar-to-plug-n'-play network setup, then you must really show it to me.

2.What software is this? Perhaps we can help.

3.Excuse me, but I think mail is better. But that's a personnal preference. However, what do you mean by "compatible"? If I send any e-mail to you using my Mail.app is there a chance that you won't be able to view it just because I sent it using mail.app?

4. I don't believe that. If I do, I must lose faith in myself . I have a G5 for 2 years not, and I have had only 2 kernel panics. I have formatted my drive only once (for security purposes only. I had to give my computer to another person for 1 month).

I must say that if you really are frustrated about dual booting, go with a PC. But some of your arguments, especially 1 and 4, are very very strange. Perhaps you use your Mac the wrong way.

 

[jsw]

3.Excuse me, but I think mail is better. But that's a personnal preference. However, what do you mean by "compatible"? If I send any e-mail to you using my Mail.app is there a chance that you won't be able to view it just because I sent it using mail.app?

If, for example, you don't tell Mail to send attachments in a Windows compatible way, then you could really screw things up for viewers.

For example, writing some text, then dragging on a file, then writing more text, then sending it? Doesn't always work so well with PC viewers, sadly enough.

 

[mrgreen4242]

1. It is vastly easier to get a decent network going with XP [for me anyway].

2. All the software I really need runs on PC only.

3. Outlook for PC is great and compatible with the rest of the world.

4. Is just as fast, and crashes the same amount of times, no matter what people say.

5. Vista is basically OSX visually, which was my main draw.

I'm sure this has all been said in the replies so far, but I couldn't resist.
1. If that's the case you're doing something wrong. I deal with Windows XP all day long as the primary tech at work and OSX networking is much better than XPs.

2. The availability of specific packages for OSX should have been something you evaluated before buying a Mac. I'm sure there are lots of film makers who couldn't live without FCP and so wouldn't buy a PC as their new machine.

3. Outlook is crap. See #1 for references. What about your email needs to "be compatible" with the rest of the world, btw? If it's an Exchange Server issue, well, see #2.

4. That rubbish, too. You're doing something crazy if that's the case for you. I reboot my Mac monthly at most, usually bi-monthly. I end up rebooting Windows systems weekly (again see #1). I've NEVER had to reinstall OSX because of a FUBARed OS, I recently had to reimage all 25 machines I support at work because they'd gotten so bad.

5. If pretty effects are all you want from your computer, you should be using one of those super fancy Ubuntu builds that put Vista and OSX to shame with the eye candy. If you want a really functional OS that uses good looking visuals for a purpose (Expose is the greatest enhancement to UI since the Start menu*).

Sounds to me like you're trying to shoehorn a Mac into your very MS centered network and trying to do a fairly specific task without the appropriate software for your profession. You should probably just get a new machine with Vista on it if the computer doesn't do what you want and you aren't willing to change your work flow or put serious time and effort into making it work. At the end of the day it's just a tool and you should pick the tool that works best for you.

* The Start menu was pretty brilliant when it was introduced back in 95. I think there are better ways to organize and access programs/menus (Dock+SpotLight for one), but it was a HUGE leap over the way Windows 3.1 organized things.

 

[davidjearly]

To follow up on comments above: this is not only uncalled for, but continuing to post in this manner will have repercussions.

The site is not intended to be a place where one must love and defend all things Apple and hate anything that's not OS X related.


To the OP: I understand your issues. I deal with them myself and apparently need to go back to using XP due to the discontinued support for the Mac version of our VPN. I in fact need to get a Dell laptop... again.* You, however, might want to check out CrossOver Mac to see if you can do what you need to do within OS X without booting into XP. It looks promising, and others have endorsed it. AutoCAD, though... might be too much for it.

* Edit: company policy now: there are exactly three laptops I can get, and just one with what I need. Unless I can justify the more expensive IBM. Stupid corporate policies...

Well I support his sentiments.

David

 

[aristobrat]

Compared to Outlook, Mac OS X's mail application is missing a lot, primarily group and resource scheduling.

That's the equivalent of saying "Compared to Microsoft Word (or Pages), TextEdit is missing a lot"...

... or "Compared to Aperture, iPhoto is missing a lot".

If you compare a professional version of an application that you have to buy additionally to the minimal version that comes free with the OS, yeah ... the free version is going to be missing a lot.

MacVault, which version of Entourage are you running?

1. I really don't know what kind of network is this, but if XP's have anything easier than OS X's similar-to-plug-n'-play network setup, then you must really show it to me.

I agree. It takes zero effort and little knowledge to setup a Mac-to-Mac or Mac-to-Windows network environment. It just works.

However, in a Windows-to-Mac network situation, when you have to make your Mac pretend it's a Windows box in order to share (because Windows doesn't know how to speak NFS or AFP), networking's not nearly as eloquent.

If that's the only Mac networking that someone has, I can see why they think it's not as easy as Windows. But I also don't think that Apple needs to bend-over-backwards and re-engineer OS X file sharing (which works perfectly with other AFP and NSF clients) to make up for the fact that Windows clients can only connect to other Windows network clients.

 

[bmb012]

Well, I pray everyday that Flash 8 miraculously becomes a Universal Binary, but until then I just cringe and boot into XP. It's absolutely terrible for shuffling files around (no springloaded folders, no exposé, bah!) which is a huge part of making Flash games, but still, bootcamp is there, so there's really no point in regretting the purchase of an Intel mac for that reason.

I'll take Mail over Outlook any day, maybe you're just not used to having all your data on the OS X side?

 

[crees!]

Anyone else work like this?? XP for work and OSX for home........

Unfortunately, yes. I'm stuck in a Windows world in corporate America even though the apps I use have Mac OS X versions. For me it's a sigh of relief coming home to my Powerbook.

 

[radiantm3]

It definitely depends on what software you have to work with on a daily basis. Being a web designer/developer, OS X is a dream OS (compared to what's available at least). I use a mac at home and at work. The only reason I need to boot into windows is to test websites in the windows browsers. I've been using windows much longer than I have used OS X, but I cringe every time I have to use it. Once you really know both systems well, you start to see all the flaws and windows definitely has a lot more of them.

Ever thought about changing your profession?

 

[bousozoku]

Macvault, can you list the 999 features that are missing from Mail? Or maybe you were exaggerating a bit... list 99?

There's not a single feature that I want Mail to have that it doesn't. I can see on the dock when I have mail, I can read the mail, I can respond. No annoying backgrounds, art, etc. Attachments always work perfectly for me. Please, , don't add anything.

That's the equivalent of saying "Compared to Microsoft Word (or Pages), TextEdit is missing a lot"...

... or "Compared to Aperture, iPhoto is missing a lot".

If you compare a professional version of an application that you have to buy additionally to the minimal version that comes free with the OS, yeah ... the free version is going to be missing a lot.
...

Apparently, you didn't notice the quote to which I was replying and just decided to smack me.

 

[akadmon]

Basically if the software you use day to day is not available, using a mac becomes a nightmare no matter how you defend it.

Umm..can you say Parallels? Outlook, AutoCAD -- most anything you need to do office work..works on it. Say hello to Option+Enter or, better yet, Coherence.

 

[zephead]

Anyone else work like this?? XP for work and OSX for home........

I have to use XP at school, and while it's quite a pleasure to come home to my MacBook, the only problems the one at school's ever given me were pretty minor, and stuff is almost just as fast. I must've had a good roll of the dice with XP on my computer at school .

 

[srexy]

Love my MacBook Pro but...

I'm just going to weigh in and say that I've had more crashes on my MBP in the last 3 months than I have had in XP Pro for a yr. I'm not sure if there's something wrong (if so there certainly isn't a volume of fixes readily available) or if Adobe Photoshop CS (version 1) just isn't stable in Rosetta. I've had 2 kernel panics (1 resulted in a complete project do-over because I hadn't been saving on the fly - learnt from that mistake!) and 1 kernel hang (for want of a better word - it just hung up with my alt-tab window in the middle of the screen - no messages and the mouse would move, but hung up nonetheless)

Granted that in the equivalent amount of time I would probably have had to close numerous applications in XP to free up memory and no doubt re-booted numerous times for security fixes. Nonetheless it's a bit worrisome that my production machine seems so completely incapable of any kind of partial recovery - it's all or nothing with it. I'm hoping that the upcoming CS3 Universal will take care of most of these woes.

 

[OllyW]

Umm..can you say Parallels? Outlook, AutoCAD -- most anything you need to do office work..works on it. Say hello to Option+Enter or, better yet, Coherence.

You have to look at the cost of running Windows on a Mac though.

I recently had to replace my work computer and after checking all the alternatives, the best option was a Dell which came out at £564 including VAT and delivery.

The nearest Apple option would have been the base model iMac which costs £679, which doesn't look that much more expensive. Unfortunately, to get to the same spec as the Dell you would need to upgrade to 1 GB RAM which costs £50. Next, the Dell comes with 3 years on-site warranty, which costs an extra £139 for 3 years AppleCare (which isn't even on-site cover and wouldn't be acceptable anyway).

The Dell includes MS Office, which would be about £350 extra for the Mac version or about £250 for the Windows version. Parallels is £50 and Windows XP Pro another £250, giving a total of £1418.

So even though my boss and I are both Mac fans and use them at home, there was no way we could even consider the Apple option, it just didn't make any financial sense.

 

[pengu]

You have to look at the cost of running Windows on a Mac though.

I recently had to replace my work computer and after checking all the alternatives, the best option was a Dell which came out at £564 including VAT and delivery.

The nearest Apple option would have been the base model iMac which costs £679, which doesn't look that much more expensive. Unfortunately, to get to the same spec as the Dell you would need to upgrade to 1 GB RAM which costs £50. Next, the Dell comes with 3 years on-site warranty, which costs an extra £139 for 3 years AppleCare (which isn't even on-site cover and wouldn't be acceptable anyway).

The Dell includes MS Office, which would be about £350 extra for the Mac version or about £250 for the Windows version. Parallels is £50 and Windows XP Pro another £250, giving a total of £1418.

So even though my boss and I are both Mac fans and use them at home, there was no way we could even consider the Apple option, it just didn't make any financial sense.

how much for security software: anti malware, anti virus, firewall.
how much in lost productivity when you have to reinstall (or pay to have it done) windows after three months because it doesnt know how to compress logs or delete swap files or whatever the hell its problem is.

 

[Eraserhead]

If, for example, you don't tell Mail to send attachments in a Windows compatible way, then you could really screw things up for viewers.

That should be on by default, Edit==>Attachments==>Always Send Windows Friendly Attachments.

without it I get problems with Mac to Mac email...

@Mac Office I agree, if Apple made iWork OpenXML compatible (which is realistic) and added a spreadsheet would that be enough for you?

 

[zero2dash]

3. Outlook for PC is great and compatible with the rest of the world.

Mail for me is poor when it comes to productivity in comparison to Outlook. When working with others I have issues with attachments, signatures, fonts....

Out of all the people/businesses I exchange emails with on a regular basis (roughly 20-30), only 1 of those people/businesses is using a Mac and the rest are running Windows.

I've never had any issues with Mail and emails, ever. From sending attachments to email text itself, as well as receiving attachments and emails...never had one single problem.

As others have said - your issue may lie in not having the option checked to "send Windows friendly attachments" in Mail. (Mine is checked and therefore all of my attachments are sent as Windows friendly.) Perhaps that is the root of your email problems.

Just a thought.

 

[displaced]

how much for security software: anti malware, anti virus, firewall.
how much in lost productivity when you have to reinstall (or pay to have it done) windows after three months because it doesnt know how to compress logs or delete swap files or whatever the hell its problem is.

Although I'm not going to comment directly on the stability of Windows (suffice to say it drives me mad at times...), there's a huge advantage that I find with having a Parallels Windows environment.

I've got a Windows image file that's 'pristine'. It has everything set up perfectly and is apparently stable. I simply copy that file and run my usual stuff. When Windows breaks itself, it's a simple task to make another copy of the pristine image and I'm back up and working.

Personally, I find running Windows in a virtualised environment one of the most convenient ways to keep Windows productive.

For comparison, my work laptop's Visual Studio 2005 installation has magically decided that it won't let me design half the forms in my current project. The code's perfect, since it compiles and runs fine. It just won't let me open it in the designer! Opening the project from my Parallels copy of VS2005 works absolutely fine -- all the forms are designable. I just don't have the time to sit and fight to repair or reinstall my work laptop, so I simply do my work on that particular project on my Mac. I've lost at least 3 days worth of time trying to figure out why it's misbehaving. A bit of googling reveals the current consensus is to reformat and reinstall. I suppose I'll get round to doing that on the PC one day...

 

[MacSociology]

1. I dont know know what the heck you're doing but Windows networking is not what i would call "easy" to setup for a non-IT person. osx you plug it in and it works.

4. I dont know what you're doing to OSX or how much you actually USE xp, but my XP machine at work crashes or hangs at least once a week, my G5 hangs MAYBE once every few months.


If you need to use XP for work, fine, do that, but dont try to justify it to yourself the way microsoft loving weenies "defend" XP.

1. Well, try to share a hardrive instead of your shared folder without using Sharepoints (although Sharepoints isn't too easy to use either). You'll discover that Mac OS X isn't exactly userfriendly on networking.

4. Sounds more like a Error 50 to me. (Error 50= Error is 50 cm from the screen).

I got multiple computers in my home. (Last count was 19 in use. But 11 of them are servers in the server-room running CentOS.) None of my PC's running XP have had any bluescreens. The only computer in my home that has crashed was my PM G5 2DP, but that turned out to be bad memory.

The main reason for Windows XP bluescreens is the user. The same thing would usually be for Mac OS X too.

 

[OllyW]

how much for security software: anti malware, anti virus, firewall.
how much in lost productivity when you have to reinstall (or pay to have it done) windows after three months because it doesnt know how to compress logs or delete swap files or whatever the hell its problem is.

You would still need the security measures if the Mac was running Windows, the Apple logo doesn't have any magical properties.

Also, If you need to re-install Windows every three months, you haven't got a clue what you are doing. OS X is miles better than Windows but XP isn't as bad as you are suggesting. My last work PC ran for five years with Windows 2000 loaded and the operating system never had to be re-installed. The hard disk eventually failed so it was time to upgrade. The new Dell is three months old and hasn't crashed yet.

I'm not trying to say PCs are better but the CAD and CAD/CAM software we run only works on Windows and there are not any Mac alternatives available. We either run Windows or stop what we are doing and the Dell made perfect financial sense. At home it's a different story

 

[zero2dash]

how much for security software: anti malware, anti virus, firewall.

$0, $0, $0.
Ad-Aware SE/Spybot - S&D/Spyware Blaster combo (all free)

AVG Free

Zone Alarm or Comodo (if you're not comfortable with having the inbound-only blocking of the Windows Firewall)

Net cost of all the above: $0.

 

[bousozoku]

$0, $0, $0.
Ad-Aware SE/Spybot - S&D/Spyware Blaster combo (all free)

AVG Free

Zone Alarm or Comodo (if you're not comfortable with having the inbound-only blocking of the Windows Firewall)

Net cost of all the above: $0.

Yes, why bother paying for good software when it's free?

AVG Free in particular seems as competent as Symantec's and McAfee's anti-virus software. I'd installed some of the same software on my parents' computer when the free trial period ran out on the pre-loaded software. It works quite well without the commercial stuff.

 

[wrldwzrd89]

Compared to Outlook, Mac OS X's mail application is missing a lot, primarily group and resource scheduling.

Actually, Outlook for Windows is better compared to the Mail + iCal + Address Book combination. Still, I agree with you - these applications, even working together, need more. Fortunately, Apple is addressing this in Leopard by adding notes to Mail and some group scheduling features to iCal.

To the OP: I understand completely - I need Visual Studio for school, and that only runs on Windows. Fortunately, it works great under Parallels, so I don't have to dual-boot.

 

[jrichie]

Hey Guys,

Good that there is a discussion over these things.

I would like to say that I would consider myself an above average user of computers in general. I am no IT 'expert' or network administrator - those guys should realise that as a small start up business I don't have the finance to employ them now for their knowledge, hence it is a do it myself network!

However, it is only me setting up the networks [I am the company] therefore there may be some user error. But the point still remains that it was far easier for me to set up the xp network [with external drives / full file sharing etc].

On the software side, Parallels is still not good enough for Autocad and Revit is a non-starter [full 3D program]

My major pain with mail is as some have stated, seperate programs for calender / contacts etc together with crap signatures! I want my mails to be received looking professional.

Of course, if I was working in the web / music / graphics world I would stay 100% mac - you try this in architecture.............. Revit is the way forward and is PC only - Archicad seems to me to be lagging behind now.

I always thought that Intel Macs would sort me out, however this has not been the case. I look forward to see what 3D support in Parallels does but for the mean time........

 

[lucasgladding]

Vectorworks

Just curious, have you ever tried Vectorworks? I've never used the program but would be interested to hear what someone in the field thinks of it. Also, architosh is one of the few mac-based architecture sites and may be a good resource for yourself.

Lucas Gladding