Loved the rMB but Returned It - Here's Why...

[newellj]

Well, it's all tradeoffs! Everyone has their own circumstances. Several of mine are probably a little unusual. I have done the 15" thing and given how I commute and now much I walk around at work, it's just too much hardware, The rMB was an absolute dream, but there were a few issues (including the fact that I wasn't prepared to make it my primary/sole laptop) that got in the way for me - but those aren't really hardware-specific (if you look at they keyboard as a personal preference issue).

License issues can be a pain - but I think that if you set yourself up with something like DropBox the file syncing can be dealt with nicely in most cases. My wife, a teacher, uses DropBox extensively and it really works for her.

 

[Traverse]

This. 15" is such a great screen size, as far as ergonomics and usability. There's a definite use case for the 12" rMB, but I personally feel the 15" rMBP is more versatile if you want the simplicity of owning 1 machine. You have to "weigh" the value of carrying a lighter notebook from point A to point B against the value of having the most comfortable, powerful workstation with you when you get to point B.

It also depends on where point B is. If it's a table then you're golden. If it is in a crowded public place where you'll keep the system in your lap then the 12" would be easier.

 

[newellj]

It also depends on where point B is. If it's a table then you're golden. If it is in a crowded public place where you'll keep the system in your lap then the 12" would be easier.

Yes, and unless you guys travel a lot higher class than I do, on a plane or on a commuter train a 15" is not likely to open far enough to be easy to use before the display hits the seatback in front of you.

 

[Traverse]

Yes, and unless you guys travel a lot higher class than I do, on a plane or on a commuter train a 15" is not likely to open far enough to be easy to use before the display hits the seatback in front of you.

I don't travel in planes, I just drive and use it around campus. The 12" would be nice, but not as critical as it would be in coach.

 

[mortenandersen]

Back to WHY the keyboard is the problem for OP

newellj wrote:

"In the end, to my surprise, it turned out to be a lot harder to type accurately on the new keyboard than my rMBP or my Apple BT keyboard."

Could you please elaborate what about the keyboard and you clicking the keys that made you felt it to a lot harder to type accurately?

Was it the size of the keys themselves? The little travel? The short(er) distance between the keys? The feeling of the rather flat keys with regards to when the keys made a click? Or other things? All in comparison with for example the MacBook Air's keyboard and clicking.

I think this is not a pedantic obsession with the keyboard, but trying to find out what made it unacceptable for you.

 

[vanimal]

For me i already said i have LARGE hands so without the extra wrist space found on the 13" MBA it was damn near impossible for me to type a few sentences & feeling comfortable. I already said i have 9" plus sized hands.

I also really didn't like the shallow travel & the flat feeling. My muscle memory just was not having it. I just like the clicking found on the MBA 13" keyboard. That oddly is the best keyboard that fits my hands, since the 13" MBA has a bigger footprint compared to the 13" MBPR.

Im a muscular guy with bigger hands, so i guess i "bang" on the keyboard for a lack of better word. I can type 75-80 WPM on the 13" MBA keyboard. So to each their own.

 

[mortenandersen]

Keyboard

For me i already said i have LARGE hands so without the extra wrist space found on the 13" MBA it was damn near impossible for me to type a few sentences & feeling comfortable. I already said i have 9" plus sized hands.

I also really didn't like the shallow travel & the flat feeling. My muscle memory just was not having it. I just like the clicking found on the MBA 13" keyboard. That oddly is the best keyboard that fits my hands, since the 13" MBA has a bigger footprint compared to the 13" MBPR.

Im a muscular guy with bigger hands, so i guess i "bang" on the keyboard for a lack of better word. I can type 75-80 WPM on the 13" MBA keyboard. So to each their own.

Thanks a lot for sharing. I think this kind of info is very valuable for us all, before one can try it out oneself.

 

[vanimal]

Thanks a lot for sharing. I think this kind of info is very valuable for us all, before one can try it out oneself.

Yup, i mean and that is the ONLY complaint i really had with the machine. Non of the reported UI lag or anything like that bothered me, never really noticed any the 4 times I've used it now, 3 in Apple store, once in BB.

I would LOVE to see a 14" version in V2. I think that would fix problem for me as it would have a bit of a larger wrist area for the palms of my hands to lay on. For me it would be a "palm rest" lol Its very hard to describe to someone how the new keyboard feels if you have yet to play with it. Its something totally different that Apple has yet to use keyboard wise.

 

[newellj]

newellj wrote:

"In the end, to my surprise, it turned out to be a lot harder to type accurately on the new keyboard than my rMBP or my Apple BT keyboard."

Could you please elaborate what about the keyboard and you clicking the keys that made you felt it to a lot harder to type accurately?

Was it the size of the keys themselves? The little travel? The short(er) distance between the keys? The feeling of the rather flat keys with regards to when the keys made a click? Or other things? All in comparison with for example the MacBook Air's keyboard and clicking.

I think this is not a pedantic obsession with the keyboard, but trying to find out what made it unacceptable for you.

It was mostly the lack of vertical travel. Sounds simple - I figured it would go away - it didn't. My muscle memory expects greater travel. I actually do OK touch-typing on a full size iPad virtual keyboard, which is why I figured I would acclimate to this very quickly.

The slightly oversized keys (or, if you wish, undersized spaces between keys) also took some getting used to, but I did get used to that pretty quickly.

 

[johngwheeler]

I wonder if in 2 years the MacBook supplants the iPad for many people. We still hear rumors about an iPad Pro, but for the past week, I've been carrying the MacBook in a padded side pocket in my messenger bag next to my work notebook. It's noticeably bigger than my iPad Air, but not much bigger than the rumored iPad Pro would be. It's ridiculously portable and a lot more useful. Now that the iPhone Plus is an option, the iPad is getting squeezed a bit.

Yes, it will be interesting to see what happens to the iPad, especially in the light of the recent sales figures, which show a marked decline in iPad sales.

I think Apple will need to do something to re-animate this market, so maybe an iPad Pro, or at some new features (stylus? Apple keyboard?) will be necessary, if only to compete with the Surface, which seems to be gaining traction.

I do see the rMB as a sort of Mac OS iPad Pro that combines a full computer with super portability. But MS and others are also playing in this space, with the possible advantage of providing a stand-alone tablet as well. I really like the idea of the Surface, but will agree that the keyboard and trackpad are pretty crappy compared to Apple products. If Apple could get the 2-in-1 device implemented with their usual style, I'd be all over it!

 

[Krevnik]

It was mostly the lack of vertical travel. Sounds simple - I figured it would go away - it didn't. My muscle memory expects greater travel. I actually do OK touch-typing on a full size iPad virtual keyboard, which is why I figured I would acclimate to this very quickly.

The slightly oversized keys (or, if you wish, undersized spaces between keys) also took some getting used to, but I did get used to that pretty quickly.

Yeah, that keyboard is gonna be a love/hate thing with folks for sure. I finally got a chance to spend maybe half an hour with one this weekend, and was surprised at the lack of errors I was making. But I noticed that the usual red flags of "you hit the wrong key" were still going off in my brain, even when I hit the right key. It was weird.

The travel is still the one thing I'm not sure I could get used to either. But I did like the click of the typing. I'd probably need a full weekend on it to really know either way.

 

[johngwheeler]

This. 15" is such a great screen size, as far as ergonomics and usability. There's a definite use case for the 12" rMB, but I personally feel the 15" rMBP is more versatile if you want the simplicity of owning 1 machine. You have to "weigh" the value of carrying a lighter notebook from point A to point B against the value of having the most comfortable, powerful workstation with you when you get to point B.

Spot on! I have a rMBP 15 (which I upgraded to from a MBA 13), and it is a great machine once you have it on a desk.

However, it *is* a lot heavier than my MBA 13 was, and I really notice that if I have to carry it around all day.

Your analysis of weighing up (pun intended!) the benefits of light weight when carrying to comfort and power when actually using is exactly what I have concluded myself.

I do like the idea of the rMB, but have to ask myself whether I would actually be any happier using this machine at home or in the office than my rMBP 15. Probably not!

Ask me the same question after spending a day travelling through airports, trying to work on a plane, getting in taxis, going to customer meetings, typing e-mails in restaurants, watching movies in bed and Skyping my wife, and you would probably get a different answer!

 

[clovehitch]

I returned my 1.1/256 after 8 hr of use for one reason: screen size. It took me about that long to make my decision, so it was a close call. I'm on my second 13" mbp, and have just ordered a 13" rMBP.

As for the keyboard I came to really like its action, and look forward to when they adopt it in the MBP line.

 

[johngwheeler]

Will Apple release new Bluetooth or iPad keyboard with rMP keys?

As for the keyboard I came to really like its action, and look forward to when they adopt it in the MBP line.

It will be interesting to see whether Apple uses this key system in their other devices, or just reserve it for the ultra-portables.

I would personally like to try a bluetooth version of this with my existing Macs before taking the plunge with the rMB. it would a cheaper way of doing a long-term test with the hassle of buying and returning!

 

[clovehitch]

It will be interesting to see whether Apple uses this key system in their other devices, or just reserve it for the ultra-portables.

I would personally like to try a bluetooth version of this with my existing Macs before taking the plunge with the rMB. it would a cheaper way of doing a long-term test with the hassle of buying and returning!

Right and they could easily modify the butterfly mechanism to bring it a bit closer to the scissors type, which might probably be a good compromise.

Agree on the hassle of buying/returning.

 

[audiopablo]

Yes, and unless you guys travel a lot higher class than I do, on a plane or on a commuter train a 15" is not likely to open far enough to be easy to use before the display hits the seatback in front of you.

15 is hell on a plane. You can do it. And the whole time people will be wondering how a tyrannosaurus got on board.

 

[Queen6]

TLDR: the rMB is a fantastic ultracompact, but didn't turn out to match my needs as well as I thought it would. I sincerely hope everyone will enjoy theirs.

Well put, equally I am sure a hard decision. Personally I am out until June at very least, I then question the value of the current MacBook as Skylake will be that much closer.

Q-6

 

[newellj]

Well put, equally I am sure a hard decision. Personally I am out until June at very least, I then question the value of the current MacBook as Skylake will be that much closer.

Q-6

Yes, it was a tough call. There's a typically out of control troll-fest thread on one of the front page "news" stories about the rMB. The thread is full of surreal, delusional drivel...here's something I posted last night in that thread:

As someone who owned a rMB for two weeks and used it every day, I'd like to comment a little.

The design and engineering vision and talent that went into the rMB is really amazing.

People may not feel that it suits their needs, but that's ok - there are other computers in the Mac lineup.

People may disagree with the direction the vision is headed, and that's ok, too - see the Jobs quote below.

Everyone also needs to remember that Rome was not built in a day. The current MBA did not really reach its development peak until 2012, and it was introduced in 2008. Expect the rMB to go through a similar process, and give it the time to do so.

People also need to remember that in 2008 the first MBA was breathtakingly expensive, even by today's standards, for what it offered, and was highly controversial. Go back and read some of the 2008 reviews - they were a lot more negative than the rMB reviews.

Even if you hate everything the rMB represents, you should be glad that people at Apple can still sit down with a blank piece of paper and come up with a product like this that has been thoroughly re-thought and re-designed from the ground up.

Read the following from Jobs to Mossberg after the iPad was introduced - it's still relevant:

“Number one, things are packages of emphasis. Some things are emphasized in a product, some things are not done as well in product. Some things are chosen not to be done at all in a product.

And so different people make different choices, and if the market tells us we’re making the wrong choices we listen to the market. We’re just people running this company. We’re trying to make great products for people, and so what we have, at least, is the courage of our convictions to say, “We don’t think this is part of what makes a great product, we’re gonna leave it out.”

Some people aren’t going to like that. They’re gonna call us names. It’s not going to be in certain companies’ interests that we do that but we’re gonna take the heat because we want to make the best product in the world for customers.

We’re gonna instead focus our energy on these technologies which we think are in their ascendancy and we think are gonna be the right technologies for customers and, you know what, they’re paying us to make those choices. That’s what a lot of customers pay us to do, is to try to make the best products we can. And if we succeed, they’ll buy them. And if we don’t, they won’t. And it’ll all work itself out.”

 

[justit]

Guys this is simple. Here's your gripe list:

1) Performance—Yes you're going to have to prune your usage to not every OS X app under the sun. You're trolling to have everything on a device that weighs just 2 lbs? If you need an FCUT machine, you know where to go.

2) Keyboard—As for the keyboard detractors, guess what, Apple trodded butterfly on center stage and it's the future of their entire line up. Apple commoditizes everything for margins. Why would they service 2 keyboard types? Keyboards are now backlit. Keyboards will now become butterfly. Kids, get with the program and re-learn to type.

3) Battery— When did you ever run out? This thing is the EASIEST charging laptop Apple has ever made. You can now charge it with 3rd party batteries/devices thanks to USB-C. Go buy extra charging cables to leave at work, home, family.

4) Ports— This is the EASIEST machine to add plugs to with an adaptor. It's one plug now instead of spending the day plugging and unplugging 3-4 devices every time. So what's the complaint, having to buy an extra adaptor?

Sorry if this all sounds too harsh folks, but reality of using Apple devices: Adapt or die off the Apple ecosystem

 

[newellj]

Guys this is simple. Here's your gripe list:

1) Performance—Yes you're going to have to prune your usage to not every OS X app under the sun. You're trolling to have everything on a device that weighs just 2 lbs? If you need an FCUT machine, you know where to go.

2) Keyboard—As for the keyboard detractors, guess what, Apple trodded butterfly on center stage and it's the future of their entire line up. Apple commoditizes everything for margins. Why would they service 2 keyboard types? Keyboards are now backlit. Keyboards will now become butterfly. Kids, get with the program and re-learn to type.

3) Battery— When did you ever run out? This thing is the EASIEST charging laptop Apple has ever made. You can now charge it with 3rd party batteries/devices thanks to USB-C. Go buy extra charging cables to leave at work, home, family.

4) Ports— This is the EASIEST machine to add plugs to with an adaptor. It's one plug now instead of spending the day plugging and unplugging 3-4 devices every time. So what's the complaint, having to buy an extra adaptor?

Sorry if this all sounds too harsh folks, but reality of using Apple devices: Adapt or die off the Apple ecosystem

I think you posted in the wrong thread.

 

[justit]

I think you posted in the wrong thread.

That's like me telling you "You returned the wrong machine"

Did you even bother keeping it for the 2 week return period ?

Many here making up excuses for the rMB because they can't adapt to how something fits

 

[newellj]

That's like me telling you "You returned the wrong machine"

Did you even bother keeping it for the 2 week return period ?

Many here making up excuses for the rMB because they can't adapt to how something fits

You obviously haven't read the original post or any of my other posts. This is a thoroughly impressive piece of design and engineering work. I have been consistently positive about this. And yes, I had it for 13 days, and during those 13 days did a lot of work with it - see this thread. I have no idea what the point of your posts here are, but you clearly haven't bothered reading anything anyone is posts in this forum.

 

[brdeveloper]

This. 15" is such a great screen size, as far as ergonomics and usability. There's a definite use case for the 12" rMB, but I personally feel the 15" rMBP is more versatile if you want the simplicity of owning 1 machine. You have to "weigh" the value of carrying a lighter notebook from point A to point B against the value of having the most comfortable, powerful workstation with you when you get to point B.

My laptops always weighted around 2kg so the 15" rMBP looks like I'm getting more for the same weight. My previous laptops were a late-2009 Macbook, a 2007 15" plastic Toshiba and a 2006 14" Clevo Celeron crappybook.

If I could have a 17" display in the same 15" rMBP form-factor, weighting the same, it would be even better.

 

[kingofwale]

My laptops always weighted around 2kg so the 15" rMBP looks like I'm getting more for the same weight. My previous laptops were a late-2009 Macbook, a 2007 15" plastic Toshiba and a 2006 14" Clevo Celeron crappybook.

If I could have a 17" display in the same 15" rMBP form-factor, weighting the same, it would be even better.

15 inchers are fine but sometimes they are a bit too heavy.. such as holding it in one hand (like when I switch rooms during a conference call.

ideally I hope MBPr 15 will see a weight loss next year. another 1-1.5lb lighter is definitely possible considering what the competitions are doing

 

[c.s.]

After a lot of visits to the store and a lot of over-analyzing, I decided against ordering a MacBook. I didn't want to order one on day 1 and return it -- I've returned other Macs that way and really hate doing it.

What finally did me in was mimicking the effective resolution (1152 x 720) on my 15" rMBP and seeing what it's like to use all the Adobe apps. Even with all the elements much larger on the 15" screen than they would be on 12", I just felt cramped. Of course I could bump it up, but then you're really getting tiny on the 12" screen and missing out on enjoying the retina display. I guess I've been spoiled by the 15" size. Fortunately I don't have to travel much, but even if I did, I think using Photoshop and After Effects on a quad core 15" display with 16 GB of RAM, when sitting for more than an hour at a time, outweighs shedding a couple pounds. I really wanted to like it, though. I even have a retina iMac and still feel that way with it as a secondary machine. That's my advice for most Adobe users, unless you're a photographer in the field or something like that. I get that it's comfortable to whip out on the couch and browse the web, but I think the iPad is ideal for that. Glad I've figured out my arsenal and all my use cases!