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Low Power G5 Coming Soon?
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combatcolin said:
... being without a job means I hammer www.macrumors.com
As for money,I know the feeling mate. I have a ton of student debt to pay off *and* rent
I do like the ibooks (my g/f is about to buy one) but, as a total nerd , i cant bring myself to buy one when i know a new PB is around the corner.
I think i just want a laptop that will play doom3 and run maya well ......
Rob
Yamson said:
Well, if the CPU uses too much power, then it will fry itself. And the faster the CPU goes, the more power it uses, so a high-power usage CPU can't go faster than a certain point. So if they can reduce the power-usage of the CPU, then it can go correspondingly faster.
As such, I expect the 3Ghz part will be the low-power version running as fast as possible, whereas the PowerBook will use a slower version of it to conserve battery power (say around 2Ghz).
GENERAL_SMILEY on macnn.com forum:
"During my brief wander round 1 Infinite Loop last week I was shown the revised Powerbooks, due to come out in the new year. They will continue to be G4 based, 2GHZ being the top end processor (use up stock?).
However the new thing, and this will no doubt turn some of you old schoolers on, is that they have ditched the silver shell, for some sort of ultra light, super hard, unscratchable carbon fiber black case, with red LED styling.
This will happen, and for the many doubters (and who can blame you), I will bring up this post when they are released"
---
does the 2Ghz claim sounds realistic ?... what are peoples views on this post ?
lots say its bull****t
Rob
"During my brief wander round 1 Infinite Loop last week I was shown the revised Powerbooks, due to come out in the new year. They will continue to be G4 based, 2GHZ being the top end processor (use up stock?).
However the new thing, and this will no doubt turn some of you old schoolers on, is that they have ditched the silver shell, for some sort of ultra light, super hard, unscratchable carbon fiber black case, with red LED styling.
This will happen, and for the many doubters (and who can blame you), I will bring up this post when they are released"
---
does the 2Ghz claim sounds realistic ?... what are peoples views on this post ?
lots say its bull****t
Rob
Do-able.
FreeScale have really hit the ground running since their birth, consider that the eMac went from a 1Ghz to 1.25Ghz -a 25% speed increase and a lower price.
Although to be honest the new PB could come with a years free entrance to the Playboy mansion and they'll since moan.
FreeScale have really hit the ground running since their birth, consider that the eMac went from a 1Ghz to 1.25Ghz -a 25% speed increase and a lower price.
Although to be honest the new PB could come with a years free entrance to the Playboy mansion and they'll since moan.
I really like the G5 chip. It is nice to see it making improvements. If we can increase the speed and lower the power (noise) even more I'll like the chip that much better.
Seeing as Intel have given up on Mhz recently, and are going for optimisation, we could trick all the stupid users by making a G5 over 4Ghz (Intel's fastest is 3.8Ghz).
Remember, the G5 is already fully optimised. Push the clock speed past Intel, and then all the stupid PC fanboys who belive that Mhz is everything, will think that Apple is better.
Apple is already better. All of us "Smarts" know that, but now the PC MicroDrones will know it.
Remember, the G5 is already fully optimised. Push the clock speed past Intel, and then all the stupid PC fanboys who belive that Mhz is everything, will think that Apple is better.
Apple is already better. All of us "Smarts" know that, but now the PC MicroDrones will know it.
Blah blah blah...... Low Power 3Ghz 970 variant sometime during the first Quarter of 05.... More Like 2nd Quarter of 05 for sure considering Apple and IBM still can't even catch up with 2.5Ghz 970FX. It should be noted that Apple Predicted during it's last Conference Calls that they would still be playing catchup with 2.5Ghz supplies well into quarter 1 of 2005. Let's be realistic and hope for 3Ghz at WWDC July 2005 at the earliest. The Powerbook update seems to be imminent though as I can't see them not being updated in Jan. I'm betting it will still be using a 74XX series Freescale Variant though.
Jesus, I hate how I have to do this every time the G5 is talked about...
Some common misconceptions and outright lies:
1) There is no inherent performance increase from 64-bit processors, unless you are doing one of a tiny handful of very specialized tasks. If you use a lot of very highly detailed and demanding math with enormous integers that require a 64-bit length, you will get speed improvements. If you're using more than 4GB of RAM on a single task, you will get some improvement. For prety much everything else, being coded in 64-bit is a slowdown.
2) The system itself is already multithreaded in OS X, and many of the professional applications that people whine about are also SMP-aware and benefit from having more than one processor. For them, a faster dual-core 32-bit processor is far more likely to provide performance in a portable, since the likelihood of having more than 4GB of RAM in that form factor is next to nothing at the moment. In addition, the 8461D will have dual 128-bit double precisions AltiVec units, 2MB of interleaved and sharable cache, and an on-die memory controller. Even at 1.5-1.8ghz, it will probably demolish anything in the single processor portable market for getting actual work done. Anything, including AntaresSP, unless IBM has some kind of miracle surprise up their sleeve.
3) The 7448 part is pin-compatible with current PowerBooks and goes to 1.8ghz, giving an intermediate step for Apple while a solid tapeout and redesign is made for next-generation technologies. If they move to the 8461D, this is necessary and inevitable, while the AntaresSP is comparatively similar to the older motherboards - north and southbridges, AGP bus, PCI bus, and so on. You could cut out a lot of the complexity of the motherboards with the 8461 by killing the southbridge chip, moving peripherals to the PCI-Express bus (which adds future compatibility for graphics and data paths), and using DDR2 memory for reasons of cooling and power consumption. Unlike Antares, that's all on the chip and needs no motherboard space for controllers.
--
What's more likely is that the AntaresMP will end up in PowerMacs and xServes as the high-end workstation chip, with AntaresSP in the iMac and eMac. Portables should roll to the 8461MP for PowerBooks and the 8461SP for iBooks. Of course, I wouldn't cry any tears if Apple were to take the 8461MP and put it in the 4-way tower with two chips and four cores, since I think that it's a far superior design to the 970.
We won't see a mature PowerPC offering from IBM until the Power5 derivatives show up, whenever that will be. The 970 is, was, and will be a kludge to fill the gaps.
Some common misconceptions and outright lies:
1) There is no inherent performance increase from 64-bit processors, unless you are doing one of a tiny handful of very specialized tasks. If you use a lot of very highly detailed and demanding math with enormous integers that require a 64-bit length, you will get speed improvements. If you're using more than 4GB of RAM on a single task, you will get some improvement. For prety much everything else, being coded in 64-bit is a slowdown.
2) The system itself is already multithreaded in OS X, and many of the professional applications that people whine about are also SMP-aware and benefit from having more than one processor. For them, a faster dual-core 32-bit processor is far more likely to provide performance in a portable, since the likelihood of having more than 4GB of RAM in that form factor is next to nothing at the moment. In addition, the 8461D will have dual 128-bit double precisions AltiVec units, 2MB of interleaved and sharable cache, and an on-die memory controller. Even at 1.5-1.8ghz, it will probably demolish anything in the single processor portable market for getting actual work done. Anything, including AntaresSP, unless IBM has some kind of miracle surprise up their sleeve.
3) The 7448 part is pin-compatible with current PowerBooks and goes to 1.8ghz, giving an intermediate step for Apple while a solid tapeout and redesign is made for next-generation technologies. If they move to the 8461D, this is necessary and inevitable, while the AntaresSP is comparatively similar to the older motherboards - north and southbridges, AGP bus, PCI bus, and so on. You could cut out a lot of the complexity of the motherboards with the 8461 by killing the southbridge chip, moving peripherals to the PCI-Express bus (which adds future compatibility for graphics and data paths), and using DDR2 memory for reasons of cooling and power consumption. Unlike Antares, that's all on the chip and needs no motherboard space for controllers.
--
What's more likely is that the AntaresMP will end up in PowerMacs and xServes as the high-end workstation chip, with AntaresSP in the iMac and eMac. Portables should roll to the 8461MP for PowerBooks and the 8461SP for iBooks. Of course, I wouldn't cry any tears if Apple were to take the 8461MP and put it in the 4-way tower with two chips and four cores, since I think that it's a far superior design to the 970.
We won't see a mature PowerPC offering from IBM until the Power5 derivatives show up, whenever that will be. The 970 is, was, and will be a kludge to fill the gaps.
Does anyone know if prices on powerbooks will rise dramatically? I want a G5 PB, but not if it's gonna be even more expensive.
Time to buy
Looks like it'll be time to buy a new PowerMac come Feb/Mar of next year. At that point I would expect x800 and 6800 series graphics card prices to fall and perhaps even come standard. I bet we also see FireGL class cards as BTO options. I'm sure we'll see the move to PCI-E graphics cards and HyperTransport 2.0. Here's my wish list for the new lineup:
ULTIMATE:
3.0 GHz Dual Core
1.5 GHz HyperTransport 2.0 FSB
PCI-E / 256mb ATI x800 Pro or nVidia 6800GT
250 GB SATA HD
$2999
FASTER:
2.8 GHz Dual Core
1.4 GHz HyperTransport 2.0 FSB
PCI-E / 128mb ATI x600 Pro or nVidia 6600
160 GB SATA HD
$2499
FASTER:
2.5 GHz Dual Core
1.25 GHz HyperTransport 2.0 FSB
PCI-E / 128mb ATI x600 Pro or nVidia 6600
160 GB SATA HD
$1999
FAST (based on existing architecture?):
2.0 GHz Single CPU
1.0 GHz HyperTransport 1.0 FSB
AGP 8x / 128mb ATI 9800
80 GB SATA HD
$1499
Looks like it'll be time to buy a new PowerMac come Feb/Mar of next year. At that point I would expect x800 and 6800 series graphics card prices to fall and perhaps even come standard. I bet we also see FireGL class cards as BTO options. I'm sure we'll see the move to PCI-E graphics cards and HyperTransport 2.0. Here's my wish list for the new lineup:
ULTIMATE:
3.0 GHz Dual Core
1.5 GHz HyperTransport 2.0 FSB
PCI-E / 256mb ATI x800 Pro or nVidia 6800GT
250 GB SATA HD
$2999
FASTER:
2.8 GHz Dual Core
1.4 GHz HyperTransport 2.0 FSB
PCI-E / 128mb ATI x600 Pro or nVidia 6600
160 GB SATA HD
$2499
FASTER:
2.5 GHz Dual Core
1.25 GHz HyperTransport 2.0 FSB
PCI-E / 128mb ATI x600 Pro or nVidia 6600
160 GB SATA HD
$1999
FAST (based on existing architecture?):
2.0 GHz Single CPU
1.0 GHz HyperTransport 1.0 FSB
AGP 8x / 128mb ATI 9800
80 GB SATA HD
$1499
GonzoRob said:
That sounds absolutely gorgeous, I hope its true!
Maybe it'll look a bit like this:
http://www.weblogsinc.com/common/images/2115770689167556.JPG
GonzoRob said:lol .. perhaps ...
i dont know about going back to black... i like the current PB looks .. it sets it far apart from the millions of other black laptops
i guess we will have to wait
jonathan ive's gotta be cooking something up.
we've had coloured plastic (iMac G3, iBook G3, PowerMac G3), white double-shot plastic (iBook G4, iMac G4, iMac G5, iPod), titanium (PowerBook G4) and aluminium (PowerMac G5, PowerBook G4, iPod Mini)
I think a glossy double-shot black like the U2 iPod could be right. What else could there be? Wood?
L3 cache is dead and gone on new machines
It has been awhile since G4s in shipping systems have even supported L3 cache, and I don't think G5 processors ever had L3 cache support.
Considering the next G4/G5 chips will have 1MB of L2 cache...who cares about L3 anymore?
>the lack of level 3 cache does mean less performance than having a L3 cache
It has been awhile since G4s in shipping systems have even supported L3 cache, and I don't think G5 processors ever had L3 cache support.
Considering the next G4/G5 chips will have 1MB of L2 cache...who cares about L3 anymore?
>the lack of level 3 cache does mean less performance than having a L3 cache
GonzoRob said:actually, wood would be quite nice
no pun intended
bring it back to the old school .. it could also be driven by gears and cogs ..
polished mahogany finish would be cool, although it would look like the sides of GarageBand which everyone hates...
Spreading misconceptions...
1) There is no inherent performance increase from 64-bit processors, unless you are doing one of a tiny handful of very specialized tasks. If you use a lot of very highly detailed and demanding math with enormous integers that require a 64-bit length, you will get speed improvements. If you're using more than 4GB of RAM on a single task, you will get some improvement. For prety much everything else, being coded in 64-bit is a slowdown.
I see this used a lot. The "64-bit is useless" arguments. They, themselves, are worthless. One side of the coin: There are PLENTY of cases where it's useful, and they apply to a lot of Mac users. Scientific and highly-precise mathematic calculations (education), video and graphic manipulation, and software.
The other side of the coin: Aside from Intel, the 64-bit processors have been complete redesigns, so their legacy performance is typically a full generation ahead of the processors they are replacing. The AMD64 processors and the 970 are both in this category of offering excellent performance in legacy applications either through higher per-clock efficiency OR through better speed scaling due to their architecture.
1) There is no inherent performance increase from 64-bit processors, unless you are doing one of a tiny handful of very specialized tasks. If you use a lot of very highly detailed and demanding math with enormous integers that require a 64-bit length, you will get speed improvements. If you're using more than 4GB of RAM on a single task, you will get some improvement. For prety much everything else, being coded in 64-bit is a slowdown.
I see this used a lot. The "64-bit is useless" arguments. They, themselves, are worthless. One side of the coin: There are PLENTY of cases where it's useful, and they apply to a lot of Mac users. Scientific and highly-precise mathematic calculations (education), video and graphic manipulation, and software.
The other side of the coin: Aside from Intel, the 64-bit processors have been complete redesigns, so their legacy performance is typically a full generation ahead of the processors they are replacing. The AMD64 processors and the 970 are both in this category of offering excellent performance in legacy applications either through higher per-clock efficiency OR through better speed scaling due to their architecture.
i really doubt a change to black. The aluminum look is apples "pro" look and i dont think they would drop it at this point. besides its beautiful. if they mess with the design too much i might be sad.
Heres hoping for dual core g4's!
Heres hoping for dual core g4's!