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I got a theory just for the fun of it:

Remember when the 10.5 iPad Pro? The 11 iPad Pro ended up replacing it and the 10.5 became part of Air series.

What if this supposed “11 iPad Air/Low-cost” ends up replacing the current 10.5 iPad Air and they discontinue the 11 iPad Pro.

Now here’s where it gets cool. This would only leave the 12.9 iPad Pro in “Pro” lineup thus they could release a larger 15”-16” iPad Pro 🤯🤯🤯

If you think about it, it would sort of mimic/reflect their MacBook Pro lineups. 🤷🏽‍♂️

Just a fun thought.
Let us have a 11.5“ pro then after the air replaces the 11“ pro 🤓
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Every mini-LED rumor omits the 11" iPad Pro, and it does here again. I really like the 11" form factor, so this is again making me nervous of it being discontinued.
Same here, having a 10.5 pro, I wanna replace mine with a14x mini led 11” pro..
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The current Air has just an A12 so it would make sense for an A14 (no X) to be applied to the next Air to give some differentiation to the Pros. Especially if orders for iPhones are likely to be down. The Mini could go that way too while the regular iPad could get the A13 as it's going to be mass produced for the SE - it would be a major upgrade since it only got refreshed in September with the same A10. Or could it get the A12 from the lines that no longer produce the current Air and Mini?
Air could get the A13 indeed, but the more we think the 2020 iPad Pro looks less and less questionable.. otherwise the air has to keep the A12..
 
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While I like the 11 inch model it would be nice if apple released a 7 inch pro version.
You will get a 6.7” iPhone..
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I think it's a general tech premise. The day you buy something? Something else newer and better could be released at any moment or the next day. I think there is a lot of value to buying older generation stuff too though. Last year, I snagged a robot vacuum cleaner for $100 and it does a decent job. Better than paying $800 for the latest tech that I won't use. I personally wouldn't mind trading up my current 6th gen iPad for a 2018 Pro if the price were right.
2018 iPad Pro was a great update, not true for the 2020 ipad pro. You just get less value for your money.. apple needed a lidar device to showcase iOS 14 AR capabilities so they announced a new iPad Pro and it will be on stage in June WWDC..
 
Well Mark Gurman and Jon Prosser are saying a redesigned iMac is coming and effectively collaborate the 23" iMac rumor. They also say they would have shipped already if not for COVID-19 impacting the Chinese production facilities.

Good catch. Great to hear.

Hopefully we'll get a WWDC reveal (like the pre-revealed the Mac Pro...back in the day...) with shipping 'soon' after.

Be nice to get some hints about what this 'redesign' means. :O

I'm praying for something that looks like the Mac Pro display with the exotic bits taken out. Hopefully the 23-ish inc iMac means more affordability for the line overall and that means a boost to the top end iMac size of 32 inches with more 'pro' capability. That way both 'affordability' and 'power' customers can get more 'bang' for their buck.

Make it happen, Apple.

Azrael.
 
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I'd be more than ok with a 'classic' 4k resolution on the 23 inch iMac. 'Retina.' Classic 4k is close enough. And far exceeds my current late 2012's resolution which is and always has been 'eye pulling.' So a 4k (or above) resolution is going to be a big upgrade and perfect for me.

I wasn't aware they sold a 23.7 inch (nearly 24 inch...) display on Apple's store. When the price differential is nominal between it and the 21 inch (low end tech' tends to flatten over time...) they may server the customer (and still themselves...) better. Apple won't be paying £629 for it. Even the difference between 128 and 256 gig SSDs has flattened to the point where even Apple(!) have offered 256 gig as standard on the Mac Mini.

RX 5600M on the entry 23.7 inch. I have no idea what the RX5600M performs like but it would have to go some to be worst than the Mini's trash iG. AMD's low end GPUs aren't too bad. Better than my NV 680M, I should imagine. ;) As long as it can drive the 4k display and run hi-def games then you have a nice machine. eg. 4k, 6 core, rx5600M, 256 SSD (and hopefully) 16 gigs of ram? You've got a decent machine for £999.

Apple could drop in nominal spec increases for the iMac. I wouldn't put it past them. But the time is over ripe for something more significant....if not life changing.

I think I'm going to have to make an effort to try and manage your expectations here.

While some of the parts that Apple buy in are commodity parts - like RAM or hard drives - others deserve far more credit for what they really are. Their SSDs are PCIe NVME NAND equivalent in quality to Samsung 970 Pro. Typically street prices of these things are double or higher than the commodity rubbish that I see so many people wheel out here.

They also spend quite a bit of time and money on R&D, materials (all aluminium case, not your plastic or steel rubbish), and build quality which so many people once again undervalue. Yes, they make some questionable decisions in terms of specific parts they pick, case design, and lack of upgradability but on the whole Apple generally don't price gouge. It's just that many people, like yourself, wouldn't choose the parts that Apple do.

Apple screens, while now falling behind the best tech becoming available, are not rubbish TN panels with poor viewing angles and colour reproduction.

Apple don't use 4k TN panel screens that you could buy as a complete monitor for £249. Their panels are brighter, wide colour gamut, HDR ready. They don't need to make a 4k resolution 21.5" screen but they do. Some, equally, will see a 5k 27" panel as overkill for their uses. But bear in mind the small print on these monitors - they support 500 nits brightness, and P3 colour gamut. I'll bet a lot of people won't know what that is until it's pointed out to them.

You simply cannot compare Apple displays with the vast majority of screens out there and with LCD production starting to fall by the wayside it's no surprise that they are looking to make their screens even better and brighter, with less IPS glow, with miniLED tech.

Let's take one for example though:

LU28H750UQUXEN Samsung 4k 28" display with Quantum Dot backlight. Amazon UK sell it for £325. Sounds impressive right?

Until you notice it's aimed at gamers with a TN panel, only 250 nit max brightness, 60Hz refresh (this is a gamer monitor right?), and then you look at the review which says: "The screen came up short when it comes to gamut coverage, reaching a maximum of 92% sRGB which low for a QDEF-treated module. Color accuracy is dismal with a Delta E average of 3.8, which will require a colorimeter to correct."

The review continues to slam colour accuracy and panel uniformity. That's not to say that people on a budget shouldn't be drawn to it but it's never a panel that Apple would use.

But did you stop looking when you saw 28" 4k for 250 quid?

Monitor purists will start to ask where the MicroLED tech (with the extra local dimming zones) are. If you don't know what local dimming zones are they are I suspect you'll know by the end of the year or early next year - but will any people care if Apple didn't 'force' them to buy that panel?

It's a pity that we can't compare with Dell's version of the 27" 5k panel. The UP2715K, now discontinued, was so pricey at the time that I recall that people said Apple were basically giving you a Mac with your monitor if you went with the iMac - that's where the moaning about target display mode going missing started. It was and still is because of the custom timing controller.

In terms of the 23.7" LG UltraFine display and I can see the value in it but I might have been more interested in it if I could use it on a PC as well - it relies entirely on a Mac to change settings.

I've already been through the difference between budget rubbish SATA SSD up against Samsung 970 Pro NVME PCIe NAND elsewhere...

And finally, let's be serious about your estimates of how Apple might charge for the spec you wanted. I'm afraid most of your prices are out by a factor of almost 2 by my predictions. That's just the way it is.
 
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Yes...but Apple doesn't mind putting 'budget' rubbish in their entry iMac or skimping on specs for pricey computers.

Apple are greedy, yes. We get that.

A £999 entry iMac is more than possible. It was in the past. It's 'will' and Apple don't have it. They're more concerned with ever greater margins, upsell and testing what the market will suffer.

Apple have had the 21 inch thing glommed to the iMac for how long now? The price difference for them between a 21 inch and a 23 inch must be nominal.

Azrael.
 
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Apple plans to introduce a 23-inch iMac in the second half of 2020, with mass production set to begin in the third or fourth quarter, according to a China Times report spotted by Mac Otakara. Apple could likely achieve this display size by simply reducing the thickness of the bezels on the current 21.5-inch iMac.

iPad-and-iMac-Original-1.png

The report claims that the new iMac will be one of several lower-priced products that Apple introduces this year, including the new iPhone SE and a forthcoming 11-inch iPad, also expected in the second half of 2020. Apple currently offers 21.5-inch and 27-inch versions of the iMac, which was last updated in March 2019 with up to 8-core 9th-generation Intel processors and Radeon Pro Vega graphics options.

iMac pricing currently starts at $1,099, although it costs an additional $200 to upgrade from a spinning hard drive to an SSD.

As for the 11-inch iPad, it is not entirely clear if the report is referring to a new version of the 10.2-inch iPad or the 10.5-inch iPad Air. Last month, the anonymous Twitter account "L0vetodream" claimed that Apple is developing a new 11-inch iPad Air with Touch ID under the display, allowing for a nearly full screen, notch-less design.


That leak said the 11-inch iPad Air will have a Mini-LED backlit display. Apple is developing at least six other products with Mini-LED displays for release by the end of 2021, including a 12.9-inch iPad Pro, a 27-inch iMac Pro, a 14-inch MacBook Pro, a 16-inch ?MacBook Pro?, a 10.2-inch iPad, and a 7.9-inch ?iPad? mini, according to analyst Ming-Chi Kuo.

Kuo has previously said that Mini-LED backlit displays will allow for thinner and lighter product designs, while offering many of the same benefits of OLED displays used on the latest iPhones, including good wide color gamut performance, high contrast and dynamic range, and local dimming for truer blacks.

Mass production of Mini-LED products could be delayed until 2021, according to the China Times.

Article Link: Lower-Priced 23-Inch iMac and 11-Inch iPad Models Rumored to Launch in Second Half of 2020

this is a ridiculous idea... what if someone wants a larger display? i love my 27 inch imac ... it would be even nicer if they would shave off the bezels and make it 30 inches. 21 and 23 inches? Theres not enough size difference to even warrant two machines. if thats what they are going to do i will just get a windows machine with a huge monitor to enjoy my media content... As usual Apple continues to flop with their imac decisions and not give their customers enough choices and variety...BYE BYE APPLE!
 
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this is a ridiculous idea... what if someone wants a larger display? i love my 27 inch imac ... it would be even nicer if they would shave off the bezels and make it 30 inches. 21 and 23 inches? Theres not enough size difference to even warrant two machines. if thats what they are going to do i will just get a windows machine with a huge monitor to enjoy my media content... As usual Apple continues to flop with their imac decisions and not give their customers enough choices and variety...BYE BYE APPLE!

The recent iMacs have lacked conviction so I can see where you're coming from.

They could do 'bigger' in the current form factors (and milk the design some more.)

But really, after ten years or so on this design, it's time for something dramatically new.

I, for one, welcome our new 23.blob and 32 inch overlords. I'm sure they'll make the footprint of both as nimble as they can.

They won't keep the 21 incher. Consigned to history. It was never big enough after having a 24 inch iMac. That should have been the smallest size they offered. iMac=screen. (...and the more of it the better.)

By the time Apple is done reducing the bezels...there might not be *that* much difference between the 21 incher and 23 and the 27 incher and 32. But they will appear that much bigger whilst having a similar footprint.

Give or take.

As for Bye Bye Apple. The debacle of the Mac Pro and the ten year stale iMac along with the more expensive pricing here in the Uk with stale and 'meh' specs... It's certainly tested my Mac only stance to the point that my next creative set up will have Mac and PC.

I feel Apple have taken their Mac customers for granted.

Azrael.
 
I'd be quite happy to simply the iPad lines.

Cheap. £199. 11 inch. Non-Laminated. A10.

Air. 8 & 11 inch. £299-£399. (Back to it's original 'cheap' price.) Laminated. Pro-motion. A12z.

iPad Pro 12.9 + 16 inch. £599+. Pro-motion. A14x. (When it arrives.)

The current line up is a mess. Simplify it. Make each one a 'good deal.' They got too greedy inflated the price for the word 'pro.' An obvious ploy to raise prices from what they were.

Azrael.
How is this less messy? You're talking about different sizes and prices but the same number of models.

I'm skeptical that the iPad Pros actually have higher margins than before—and Apple always keeps a healthy margin. Perhaps in 2020, now that a lot of the R&D has been recouped, but there's a lot of high-end tech in there. I didn't relish paying MacBook Pro prices for my iPad Pro in 2018 but look at how many feature it has that the MacBook Pros don't (ProMotion, better cameras, Dolby Vision, FaceID, etc.).

I think the price for the low-end iPad is incredible considering what you get with it. The next refresh will likely bring at least an A12 processor which could be game changer at their current price points. The big issue is iPad apps. Apple should really push its partners or better yet, take some of that revenue and set up seed fund/angel investments for top-flight iPad apps. Killer apps will drive hardware adoption. They need to show off use cases that won't work on Chromebooks.
 
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this is a ridiculous idea... what if someone wants a larger display? i love my 27 inch imac ... it would be even nicer if they would shave off the bezels and make it 30 inches. 21 and 23 inches? Theres not enough size difference to even warrant two machines. if thats what they are going to do i will just get a windows machine with a huge monitor to enjoy my media content... As usual Apple continues to flop with their imac decisions and not give their customers enough choices and variety...BYE BYE APPLE!

The 23" is meant to replace the 21.5", by reducing bezel size as you just mentioned. Just like how the 16" MBP replaced the 15"

And no one ever mentioned about ditching the 27" iMac so why are you freaking out?
 
I'm only interested in the "macbook 12 arm".
On one hand, it'd be a good thing to demo for WWDC, to give developers a long lead-up to experiment and debug on it. On the other hand, they have to be careful, because if they show any ARM-based Mac, a certain portion of the market will say, "no way I'm gonna buy an Intel-based Mac, because the ARM ones will be along any day now", even if Apple won't have more than just one demo model out for a year or two.

One way to do an end run around this would be to announce a version of macOS that runs on the new combo of iPad Pro and iPad Magic Keyboard (don't bother trying to make it run on every iPhone, just support the top end). Then developers can target that, and when lots of software works, and lots of hardware is ready, then announce proper ARM-based Macs.
 
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Yes...but Apple doesn't mind putting 'budget' rubbish in their entry iMac or skimping on specs for pricey computers.

Apple are greedy, yes. We get that.

A £999 entry iMac is more than possible. It was in the past. It's 'will' and Apple don't have it. They're more concerned with ever greater margins, upsell and testing what the market will suffer.

Apple have had the 21 inch thing glommed to the iMac for how long now? The price difference for them between a 21 inch and a 23 inch must be nominal.

Azrael.

They don't intend people to buy the base spec of any Apple product - the profit margin is in the upper SKUs. If the base SKU works for you (eg 32Gb iPhones) then good luck but it's there to make the middle (and top tier) product look good value. It's classic marketing.

I'm not offended by the base iMac 21.5" and more than I was affronted by the base 2014 Mac mini (4gb non upgradable off the shelf, 1.4Ghz CPU, laptop hard drive - also not upgradable :) ), I was always more offended by the non user upgradable RAM in all 21.5" models.

You're complaining about Apple's monolithic pricing structure where the price of an item stays the same throughout its lifetime with few exceptions - usually exchange rate related away from the US.

This mainly affected people interested in the Mac Pro 2013 or the Mac mini 2014.

But whereas a Dell or HP PC price slides from day 1 until it's discontinued for a more modern model 6 months later - affecting the residual price of PCs in general - Apple appear to amortise the development cost of a model across it's expected lifetime - usually a year in the past. Consider a Mac better value on day 1 of release than day 330 of release instead of moaning that the price hasn't been cut.

Even then the third party retailers come up with discounts away from the traditional Apple Store so there's probably no reason to complain unless you find you need a BTO build which only Apple generally do (first tier computer specialists can order in BTO Specs to sell but these are rare and hardly ever discounted too).

The Retina iMacs, like the iPhone 6/6s/7/8 series, have clearly had the cost of R&D repaid over the years so they could probably afford to do an internal spec bump to see them through till the end of the year (and perhaps beyond). But my guess is it's still going to leave a number of people unhappy. :)
 
Since we have rumors that the 2020 iMac Pro will have a 27" display (just improved on the current one), it stands to reason that if Apple is doing a redesign to "slim the bezels", this will be like the 2018 iPad Pro:

  • The 21.5" will grow to 23" to consume the existing bezel space, but maintain the same physical dimensions (as the iPad Pro 10.5 did to become the iPad Pro 11).
  • The 27" will stay at 27" and shrink the bezels as well as shrinking the physical dimensions (as the iPad Pro 12.9 did).
 
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On one hand, it'd be a good thing to demo for WWDC, to give developers a long lead-up to experiment and debug on it. On the other hand, they have to be careful, because if they show any ARM-based Mac, a certain portion of the market will say, "no way I'm gonna buy an Intel-based Mac, because the ARM ones will be along any day now", even if Apple won't have more than just one demo model out for a year or two.

One way to do an end run around this would be to announce a version of macOS that runs on the new combo of iPad Pro and iPad Magic Keyboard (don't bother trying to make it run on every iPhone, just support the top end). Then developers can target that, and when lots of software works, and lots of hardware is ready, then announce proper ARM-based Macs.

If you look at the iPad Pro 2020, the LIDAR assembly appears to be there to give developers something to go at for when the iPhone Pro inevitably get the same assembly. They have a physical product to target rather than a nebulous theoretical target.

By the same token there is a Macbook 12" size hole in the lineup. It could be an inoffensive entry level machine for road warriors who don't want what an iPad Pro/Magic Keyboard combo offers.

Clearly Apple don't see the point in looking at Y series Intel CPUs to power it - Apple have had even tried them in previous Macs with mixed results.

But in the sub 10w range there's clearly a case to imagine an A14X (or A14Z if launched at WWDC 2021) CPU in a traditional hinged laptop format that's optimised for typing - and has no touch component. This is the important difference between macOS and iPadOS which ends me to believe Apple will launch a niche product and see who will develop for it rather than try to shoehorn macOS onto an iPad.

Replacing the 12" Macbook - therefore - is the 12" iBook. A device with 1.6:1 2304 x 1440 12" Retina display (to compare, the 12.9" 1.33:1 iPad Pro is 2732 x 2048 and the 11" 1.43:1 iPad 2388 x 1668.

Here's the number of pixels that the GPU has to drive:
3317760 iBook 12"
3983184 iPad Pro 11"
5595136 iPad Pro 12.9"

Without Thunderbolt on offer could Apple stick with 1 USB-C port or go with more? 2 would be nice and symmetrical.

But what would make an iBook better than the MBA or a suitably kitted out iPad Pro?

Lighter than the MBA?
Cheaper than the MBA?
Longer battery life than the MBA?
Cellular option?
Pro-motion 90Hz or 120Hz display?

If we are about to see versions of Apple apps compiled for ARM (such as FCPX, Logic, and the Apple Work apps), we could see Gatekeeper (and therefore the Mac App Store) be mandatory for this machine to prevent people from accidentally trying to instal Intel binaries meant for a 'Mac'.

What if Microsoft came up with a version of Microsoft 365 for the ARM cpus in secret for the release of the product? They already have the main apps in the App store.

That would give Apple a reason to launch a product like the iBook - with a selection of built in apps ready to load and developers then get a WWDC (the 2021 one) to recompile their apps.
 
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No one needs a spinning hard drive. No one.
Definitely. Never will go back to waiting so long for the OS to load.
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I would love to see a smaller bezel budget iPad that replaces the current one. If that replaces the current Air, I am all for getting it.
Me too as long as the price is reasonable. Was literally asking a few hours ago when a new iPad was due.
 
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what if someone wants a larger display? i love my 27 inch imac
... why do you assume the 27" would "go away"?

For many years the various Mac laptop lines have had at most 2 inches differentiating the sizes.

For many years their desktop displays were just a few inches size apart (17, 19, 22), (20, 24, 30).

It seems quite unlikely that they would simply discontinue a 27" or similar sized iMac because they release a 23" model.
 
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... why do you assume the 27" would "go away"?

For many years the various Mac laptop lines have had at most 2 inches differentiating the sizes.

For many years their desktop displays were just a few inches size apart (17, 19, 22), (20, 24, 30).

It seems quite unlikely that they would simply discontinue a 27" or similar sized iMac because they release a 23" model.

There's always the iMac Pro...
 
I think a better range of iMacs should be along these sizes. 24" iMac-64Mb RAM,4K screen, 28" iMac-128Mb RAM, 4K screen, 30" iMac-128Mb RAM, 5K screen, and 32"iMac Pro-256Mb RAM, 6K or 5K screen. Plus 28", 30" separate 5K screens. All RAM user installs.
So what do you suggest Sandstorm and droidgod? Smaller iMacs? Older tech inside? CD players?
 
I'd like to see them be able to hit as close to $999 as possible for an iMac with a 256GB SSD, 10th gen i5 and 8GB of RAM with a 4K display. I obviously don't expect they'll hit exactly $999, but somewhere between that and $1,299 would have me genuinely consider one.

Then again, it would be great if they just released a good, reasonably priced 4K monitor so I could hook up my MacBook Pro to it and have the same visual experience as I do with my MacBook Pro's display.
 
With regard to 30 and 32-inch iMacs, how likely is this going to happen unless an affordable good quality 6K panel becomes available? The ppi is lowering out of "retina territory," unless you place the iMac further away.

A 32-inch 5K iMac would have a ppi of 184ppi. It's a bit low. For reference that's the same ppi as a 24" 4K display (e.g. the newer LG UltraFine 4K). It's ok, but not as nice as a 21.5" 4K display.
 
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I love the magnet design of the 1000 stand and the way it attaches. Be nice if they could do something similar with a new iMac without the price jack.
 
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With regard to 30 and 32-inch iMacs, how likely is this going to happen unless an affordable good quality 6K panel becomes available? The ppi is lowering out of "retina territory," unless you place the iMac further away.

A 32-inch 5K iMac would have a ppi of 184ppi. It's a bit low. For reference that's the same ppi as a 24" 4K display (e.g. the newer LG UltraFine 4K). It's ok, but not as nice as a 21.5" 4K display.

You would imagine if miniLED backlighting to further improve the brightness of the existing displays has been heavily hinted then a change in display sizes would be mentioned by now.

Most other 5k displays seem to be interested in boosting the size well above that of Apple's 27" which uses the LG Ultrafine panel - here's a link to some 5k and 8k panels reviewed by Techradar. Obviously this leaves you with screens well below Apple's own retina definition of 219ppi.

It's a logical leap to see Apple using a 'commodity' 4k panel like LG's 23.7" Ultrafine 186ppi panel on the basis that Apple are selling the 23.7" Ultrafine in the Apple Store.

I'd be interested to see how Apple differentiate the larger but lower resolution 4k display if its dropped below the definition of Retina.

If they were sticking to 219ppi at roughly that size then Apple would be using a 4.4-4.6K panel that we haven't seen before but keeping the quality up.

But if they use the LG 3.7" 4k panel then it has to be a new product - it might have been a replacement for the 21.5" iMac but I get the feeling they'd use up some significant budget to go all SSD on this model.

I couldn't honestly see how Apple would then justify a larger 30-32" panel and only have it be 5k though. That would be doubling down on the idea that the next generation of iMacs are not going to have retina screens and would surely force a redesign on the iMac Pro.
 
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