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M1 damages by charging through adapters - reasons understood?

G

geejay9876

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 3, 2018
85
103
Hi,

there have been reports of fried M1s due to users charging through third-party adapters.

Are the reasons for these damages fully understood? I have seen some explanations why this happens. Are the adapter inproperly regulating the voltage?

Best Gerry
 
I have now superglued the power-delivery (PD) port of my hub to prevent any accidental charging of my Macbook through the hub. It seems that the power regulating chip in the hubs is counteracting the regulating chip in the M1 notebooks leading to excessive currents which are destroying the M1 circuits.

Presumably, Apple has wrongly implemented some Power delivery standards. Apparently the PD standards are not trivial. E.g. devices have to signal whether they are the consumer or provider of power. Voltages go now up to 20V and are regulated dynamically. It was reported that Apple rushed the M1 USB chipset with the USB4 standard and Power delivery, even beating Intel. So, its conceivable that they missed something in the development.
appleinsider.com

M1 Macs deliver Apple's first support for USB4 | AppleInsider

The first Apple Silicon chip used in a Mac, the M1, implements Apple's first custom controller for USB4 and Thunderbolt 3 and delivers the platform's first systems meeting the new USB4 specification. Notably, Apple has brought USB4 to market about a month after Intel's own 11th Gen Tiger Lake...
appleinsider.com appleinsider.com

The fact that the Apple notebooks got fried suggests at least that Apple did not implement circuit protection correctly.

Power delivery standards

USB Charger (USB Power Delivery) | USB-IF

www.usb.org www.usb.org

PD Hazards

USB Power Delivery Makes Circuit Protection Mandatory | Bench Tal

The additional voltage and current introduced to the popular USB standard by USB-PD multiplies hazards and makes circuit protection essential. But des
www.mouser.mx
 
hm, mine is more or less charged with either CalDigit or TS3+ (the one i plug in first), it's correctly identified as either 60W or 87W adapter
 
or it may be the hubs not having USB4 support?
Anyway this sort of problem has happened with intel Macs too.

Maybe the reason Apple is going to use MagSafe for 2021 Macs?
 
Kung gu said:
or it may be the hubs not having USB4 support?
Anyway this sort of problem has happened with intel Macs too.

Maybe the reason Apple is going to use MagSafe for 2021 Macs?
Click to expand...
No, the power-delivery standard is independent of USB4. USB4 relies on PD though. In any case, Macs should have circuit protection so that misbehaving devices cannot damage them.

Yes, I guess a lot of users are doing bad stuff, like using low-spec USB-c cables with powerful Apple chargers, using misbehaving PD hubs or chargers etc. A dedicated magsafe charger could prevent all that. Also the much bemoaned fixed cable on the Magsafe charger looks like a great idea in retrospect.
 
it does?
it frayed on both sides, and you had to either buy a new brick, or dismantle it (which was a mess and forceful job).
Also I used my MBP brick for charging my iPhones constantly.
Having laptop charged by the dock or the display also eliminates the need of buying an additional brick.
 
Ploki said:
it does?
it frayed on both sides, and you had to either buy a new brick, or dismantle it (which was a mess and forceful job).
Also I used my MBP brick for charging my iPhones constantly.
Having laptop charged by the dock or the display also eliminates the need of buying an additional brick.
Click to expand...
Sure, there are advantages with powering through PD USB hubs or displays. I guess one can build chargers with fixed non-fraying cables - at least other manufacturers manage to do that.
 
I'll guess that conflicting standards regarding charging over USB may have caused Apple's engineers to decide that they would "take greater control" over charging again, with a redesigned MagSafe. Of course, MagSafes can be faked (as the proliferation of "knockoffs" and counterfeits demonstrates), but I reckon there will be fewer chances of motherboard/battery damage from going back to the MagSafe standards than there would be with USB.

I'll also guess that with the upcoming MagSafe models, USB charging will be discontinued, and the ONLY way to charge will again be through MagSafe.

We'll just have to wait and see.
 
geejay9876 said:
appleinsider.com

M1 Macs deliver Apple's first support for USB4 | AppleInsider

The first Apple Silicon chip used in a Mac, the M1, implements Apple's first custom controller for USB4 and Thunderbolt 3 and delivers the platform's first systems meeting the new USB4 specification. Notably, Apple has brought USB4 to market about a month after Intel's own 11th Gen Tiger Lake...
appleinsider.com appleinsider.com
Click to expand...
There's nothing in this article which backs up your claim that 3rd party chargers are damaging Macs.
 
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I've had an M1 MBP since launch day it's actually never been charged by the official apple adaptor, which is still sitting in my bag for travel (which isn't happening right now). Either via an Anker 2 port USB-C charger when in the bedroom or via the LG UltraFine 4k when at my desk.
 
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chrfr said:
There's nothing in this article which backs up your claim that 3rd party chargers are damaging Macs.
Click to expand...
forums.macrumors.com

Which USB-C dock for an M1 MacBook Pro?

At this point, it's been fairly well established - at the point of that post, it hadn't been. Hopefully Apple aren't being too much of a PITA towards you over it. Personally had to deal with 3 different students coming into the office at work who've had it happen, they've all been given...
forums.macrumors.com forums.macrumors.com

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-macbook-air-wont-power-on.2272304/
 
Last edited:
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geejay9876 said:
forums.macrumors.com

Which USB-C dock for an M1 MacBook Pro?

At this point, it's been fairly well established - at the point of that post, it hadn't been. Hopefully Apple aren't being too much of a PITA towards you over it. Personally had to deal with 3 different students coming into the office at work who've had it happen, they've all been given...
forums.macrumors.com forums.macrumors.com

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/m1-macbook-air-wont-power-on.2272304/
Click to expand...

This has also has occurred to 2018, 2019, and 2020 Intel models per user reports.

Not specific to M1.

See Dead M1 Mac with USB-C Multiport Adapters : macbook (reddit.com)
 
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ian87w said:
Is this for real?
I guess I'll wait for the second revision... :(
Click to expand...

See above - not specific to M1 models.

IMHO if you stick with a known name-brand dock/hub/power-source you're not going to have an issue caused by the dock.
 
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pshifrin said:
I've had an M1 MBP since launch day it's actually never been charged by the official apple adaptor, which is still sitting in my bag for travel (which isn't happening right now). Either via an Anker 2 port USB-C charger when in the bedroom or via the LG UltraFine 4k when at my desk.
Click to expand...
Yup. Mine's either on my Caldigit TS3+, sometimes on a CableMatters 72W multiport, and sometimes on the Lention hub I use with my work laptop - fed with a lenovo USBC power brick.

No doubt that there've been some issues out there affecting models from various years, though I'd also mention that I've not seen any evidence of causation other than circumstance - i.e. difficult to know if the failure was internal and would've happened with any power source and now just one running through a hub.

*shrug* Per my above post, I wouldn't be concerned if using with known name-brand hubs/docks/power.
 
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geejay9876 said:
Tons of users who bricked their Macs in this thread with power through the hub. Its obvious that Macs have insufficient protection against such PD malfunctions. Why take chances?
Click to expand...
Same reason we drive cars despite ~1600 traffic fatalities last year in my state alone.

The convenience of single-cable docking outweighs the small chance of an issue occurring while using proven name-brand products.
 
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