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Havelock_Vetinari

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 3, 2021
12
15
I've owned my 16" M1 Max MBR for a few weeks now and I am yet to hear the fans.

So I decided to try TG Pro and run HandBrake to see what's going on. Well, I don't know what to think of the results... I know that if this was an Intel proc, I would be in a full blown panic mode, lol. I see very high CPU temps and almost no response from the fans. Would this be considered normal?

m1max-temps.png
 

metapunk2077fail

macrumors 6502a
Oct 31, 2021
634
845
What do you expect if you're running Handbrake? As long as you're not doing that all day. If you are then a laptop is not the choice no matter how amazeballs the CPUs become.

Film studios when they encode master copies use dedicated servers with dedicated encoding chips, not laptops with Handbrake.
 

Havelock_Vetinari

macrumors newbie
Original poster
Nov 3, 2021
12
15
The issue is not HandBrake, I just used it to put some decent load on the CPUs. Although, let's not forget that this is supposed to be "Pro", not MB Air, it should be expected to run under load most of the time.

My worry is that the CPUs are running 97-98C sustained,and the fans are barely coming on. You would think that at those temps I would see at least 50% load on the fans??
I'm not sure what kind of longevity could be expected when the CPU temps are allowed to run like this with barely any cooling attempt.
 

white7561

macrumors 6502a
Jun 28, 2016
934
386
World
Cpu is made to run on those temps. Apple is trying to push it to the hottest as they can without thermal throttling and without having high fan noise.

And as usual it's tjunction temp is usually way higher than what they allow the temp to go up to..

As for longevity. I have a 2014 MacBook air. Which runs hot AF. been daily driving it since the day I bought it in 2014 for everyday. And the temp is always so high. Open a safari or chrome Tab and go load sites it'll go to 80-99c like usual. It runs on those ranges and the machine is still fine till now. The battery is shot which made sense but everything else.. works as perfectly as the first day I bought it.

Also. Considering how with these new MBPs, Most of the time. The fans won't actually turn on, it is a very good thing because it means less power usage, less noise, less chance of dust getting inside which will cause less efficiency in the thermal exchange overtime..also usually the new MBPs only start the fans and keep it on the lowest fan speed which is awesome. i think the old Intel MacBooks always have the fans turned on .

So I think we don't really need to worry about such stuff since IMO they already thought of em before we do.
 

hefeglass

macrumors 6502a
Apr 21, 2009
760
423
The issue is not HandBrake, I just used it to put some decent load on the CPUs. Although, let's not forget that this is supposed to be "Pro", not MB Air, it should be expected to run under load most of the time.

My worry is that the CPUs are running 97-98C sustained,and the fans are barely coming on. You would think that at those temps I would see at least 50% load on the fans??
I'm not sure what kind of longevity could be expected when the CPU temps are allowed to run like this with barely any cooling attempt.
so you're assuming apple didnt test these and your CPU is going to fail prematurely?
id say thats highly unlikely..
 

AndyMacAndMic

macrumors 65816
May 25, 2017
1,084
1,632
Western Europe
The issue is not HandBrake, I just used it to put some decent load on the CPUs. Although, let's not forget that this is supposed to be "Pro", not MB Air, it should be expected to run under load most of the time.

My worry is that the CPUs are running 97-98C sustained,and the fans are barely coming on. You would think that at those temps I would see at least 50% load on the fans??
I'm not sure what kind of longevity could be expected when the CPU temps are allowed to run like this with barely any cooling attempt.

As long as I know that is Apple's cooling strategy. They value silence more than heat. On Intel Mac's the strategy is the same: Kick in the fans at the last moment (also at a temperature far above 90 degrees celcius). Apple seems to use exactly the same strategy for Apple Silicon. Speculating about longevity of a relatively new product is like looking in a crystal ball. It did not seem to hurt the longevity of Intel based Macs though, so why now?
 
Last edited:

mi7chy

macrumors G4
Oct 24, 2014
10,495
11,155
I like to keep temps below 70C and get concerned when it hits 80C. Around 100C is just nuts. That's what happens when marketing overrides thermal and reliability engineering so they can market it as fanless when it's really overcooked. Reminds me of how Jobs wanted the early Apple II revision and also III to be ventless for aesthetics and it caused overheating and longevity issues. Later II revisions corrected overheating with vents and work fine still over forty years later while III ended up in landfill.

Just pay for TG Pro and set your own fan profile to keep it no more than around 70 to 80C. Use Blender CPU as stress test to find upper temperature.
 
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dimme

macrumors 68040
Feb 14, 2007
3,124
29,435
SF, CA
I have a 24"iMac M1 and when I run Xplane my temps are similar. I too am concerned about long term health of the computer. For now I have set a custom fan curve so the fan kick in a bit sooner, and the temps go down a bit quicker.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,360
19,432
My worry is that the CPUs are running 97-98C sustained,and the fans are barely coming on.

Your worry is unfounded.

You would think that at those temps I would see at least 50% load on the fans??

Why waste energy on fans if it’s completely unnecessary?

I'm not sure what kind of longevity could be expected when the CPU temps are allowed to run like this with barely any cooling attempt.

The same kind of longevity if you run the machine in any other way. Really, let’s stop once abs for all with these “temperature myths”.
 

iPadified

macrumors 68000
Apr 25, 2017
1,968
2,181
I like to keep temps below 70C and get concerned when it hits 80C. Around 100C is just nuts. That's what happens when marketing overrides thermal and reliability engineering so they can market it as fanless when it's really overcooked. Reminds me of how Jobs wanted the early Apple II revision and also III to be ventless for aesthetics and it caused overheating and longevity issues. Later II revisions corrected overheating with vents and work fine still over forty years later while III ended up in landfill.

Just pay for TG Pro and set your own fan profile to keep it no more than around 70 to 80C. Use Blender CPU as stress test to find upper temperature.
I really never understood the 100 Deg C limit. What is destroyed?
 

cmaier

Suspended
Jul 25, 2007
25,405
33,473
California
I like to keep temps below 70C and get concerned when it hits 80C. Around 100C is just nuts. That's what happens when marketing overrides thermal and reliability engineering so they can market it as fanless when it's really overcooked. Reminds me of how Jobs wanted the early Apple II revision and also III to be ventless for aesthetics and it caused overheating and longevity issues. Later II revisions corrected overheating with vents and work fine still over forty years later while III ended up in landfill.

Just pay for TG Pro and set your own fan profile to keep it no more than around 70 to 80C. Use Blender CPU as stress test to find upper temperature.

There is no technical basis for your claim. Germanium-doped silicon can operate just fine even up to 200 C with no problem (but with reduce performance over the modelled temperature, which is usually 100C.). The package solder is designed to operate at well over 100C as well.
 

leman

macrumors Core
Oct 14, 2008
19,360
19,432
I really never understood the 100 Deg C limit. What is destroyed?

There is evidence that at temperatures above 105C electromigration rapidly accelerates, damaging the chip, see table 2 and the corresponding discussion in the linked paper.

https://www.ti.com/lit/an/sprabx4b/...65528&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F

I like to keep temps below 70C and get concerned when it hits 80C. Around 100C is just nuts. That's what happens when marketing overrides thermal and reliability engineering so they can market it as fanless when it's really overcooked. Reminds me of how Jobs wanted the early Apple II revision and also III to be ventless for aesthetics and it caused overheating and longevity issues. Later II revisions corrected overheating with vents and work fine still over forty years later while III ended up in landfill.

Just pay for TG Pro and set your own fan profile to keep it no more than around 70 to 80C. Use Blender CPU as stress test to find upper temperature.

Utter and completely nonsense. What you sell as "engineering" is in fact superstition and urban myths.
 

dimme

macrumors 68040
Feb 14, 2007
3,124
29,435
SF, CA
I am not a expert, in fact I know nothing about designing chips or even how they work. I just use them, but forgive me I just have to ask. Why do builders of PC gaming computers go through the trouble, expence and extra work to liquid cool their rigs, if high temperatures is not a issue?
 

bsamcash

macrumors 65816
Jul 31, 2008
1,033
2,623
San Jose, CA
I am not a expert, in fact I know nothing about designing chips or even how they work. I just use them, but forgive me I just have to ask. Why do builders of PC gaming computers go through the trouble, expence and extra work to liquid cool their rigs, if high temperatures is not a issue?
High temps are an issue, but 100C is usually within operating conditions for CPUs. Liquid cooling are usually to allow overclocking with would otherwise be outside operating conditions.
 

iPadified

macrumors 68000
Apr 25, 2017
1,968
2,181
There is evidence that at temperatures above 105C electromigration rapidly accelerates, damaging the chip, see table 2 and the corresponding discussion in the linked paper.

https://www.ti.com/lit/an/sprabx4b/sprabx4b.pdf?ts=1637225065528&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com%2F



Utter and completely nonsense. What you sell as "engineering" is in fact superstition and urban myths.
Thank you. Little surprised that this it is enhanced even at relatively low temperatures. Here TI talk about 105 Deg C for 24/7 operation for 10 years. Should be sufficient for expected life time.
 

nastysailboat

Cancelled
May 7, 2021
306
259
so you're assuming apple didnt test these and your CPU is going to fail prematurely?
id say thats highly unlikely..
I’m kinda with this, I’m curious if the machine feels really hot or not. Mine gets a little warm when working with video but I wouldn’t call it hot.
 

diamond.g

macrumors G4
Mar 20, 2007
11,238
2,521
OBX
Those temperatures are not high at all. CPUs are designed to run at 100 C continuously for the entirety of their operating lifespan. When we model them for performance and correct operation, we assume the temperature is 100C, in fact.
Gonna bookmark this response for when folks tell others not to mine coin on their macs because the heat will destroy them, thanks!
 

Homy

macrumors 68020
Jan 14, 2006
2,294
2,170
Sweden
Also TG Pro seems to show higher temperatures than actual. The CPU heat sensors lie deeper than such software can reach according to many people.
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,780
4,504
Those temperatures are not high at all. CPUs are designed to run at 100 C continuously for the entirety of their operating lifespan. When we model them for performance and correct operation, we assume the temperature is 100C, in fact.
So what you are saying is that when my M1 MBA reaches 101° C I should be worried? /s
 

jdb8167

macrumors 601
Nov 17, 2008
4,780
4,504
Also TG Pro seems to show higher temperatures than actual. The CPU heat sensors lie deeper than such software can reach according to many people.
These temps are coming from the SMC on the SoC. They are accurate enough to keep the SoC within its specification.
 
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