M2 Chip Rumored to Arrive in 2022 With Redesigned MacBook Air

[Fomalhaut]

I'm sorry that you want this to be a forum where people who have no knowledge on a subject can throw around uninformed opinions and get congratulations for them. People who pay attention correct the inaccuracies and impossibilities, and then get shouted at about MUH OPINION. As much as you may want the internet to be a place where all ridiculous opinions are given equal standing, it isn't. Just like, you know, the real world.

I think the downvotes and angry-emojis against your posts should give you all the information you need to know about what other people here think. As I said, this isn't the forum for you....

Naming calling or denigrating others' opinions on a public forum is really not a very pleasant or mature way to communicate. Nor are excessively arrogant statements of your correctness or superior reasoning - even if you are right. If others are misinformed, then *politely* provide correct information; if they have an opinion that is erroneous in your opinion, then provide a counter-argument.

A little humility would go a long way to actually contributing constructively to a forum such as this.

 

[Lemon Olive]

Nor are excessively arrogant statements of your correctness or superior reasoning - even if you are right.

As I said, you'd rather be agreed with and back-patted, even when you're wrong.

 

[09872738]

As I said, you'd rather be agreed with and back-patted, even when you're wrong.

I‘m sorry but I need to weigh in at this point. Your track record of being correct is evidentially rather poor. Your arrogant comments on other posters/comments therefore are very much unwarranted and rude.
I suggest you consult the forum rules (code of conduct) on how to interact with people in the forum.

 

[Lemon Olive]

I‘m sorry but I need to weigh in at this point. Your track record of being correct is evidentially rather poor. Your arrogant comments on other posters/comments therefore are very much unwarranted and rude.
Maybe you consult the forum rules (code of conduct) on how to interact with people in the forum.

First of all, false. My "track record" with paying attention to what Apple does, what reliable sources say they are going to do, and then applying that to the next thing that is happening, is unremarkably correct most of the time, because most of the time Apple follows their own patterns, and most of the time reliable sources are right. I'm rarely ever claiming anything from an opinion standpoint, but from an informed observational standpoint. More often than not, this is correct, because it is the most likely outcome.

This forum is filled with people who do not pay attention to either, and then weigh in as if their ideas made from whole cloth are valid and interesting. They are not.

 

[09872738]

First of all, false. My "track record" with paying attention to what Apple does, what reliable sources say they are going to do, and then applying that to the next thing that is happening, is unremarkably correct most of the time, because most of the time Apple follows their own patterns, and most of the time reliable sources are right. I'm rarely ever claiming anything from an opinion standpoint, but from an informed observational standpoint. More often than not, this is correct, because it is the most likely outcome.

This forum is filled with people who do not pay attention to either, and then weigh in as if their ideas made from whole cloth are valid and interesting. They are not.

Thank you for proving my point.

 

[transpo1]

First of all, false. My "track record" with paying attention to what Apple does, what reliable sources say they are going to do, and then applying that to the next thing that is happening, is unremarkably correct most of the time, because most of the time Apple follows their own patterns, and most of the time reliable sources are right. I'm rarely ever claiming anything from an opinion standpoint, but from an informed observational standpoint. More often than not, this is correct, because it is the most likely outcome.

This forum is filled with people who do not pay attention to either, and then weigh in as if their ideas made from whole cloth are valid and interesting. They are not.

An informed observational standpoint but you frequently never say what that standpoint is, only that Apple’s going to do what it’s going to do, you’re right, and everyone else is wrong.

Most people on this forum like discussing and tossing around ideas (which is the whole point of a forum) but you apparently do not.

If you make more of an effort to outline your opinions and be open minded (or at least maintain your positions and debate instead of trying to shut down discussion), people would be much more welcoming. Food for thought.

 

[Lemon Olive]

An informed observational standpoint but you frequently never say what that standpoint is, only that Apple’s going to do what it’s going to do, you’re right, and everyone else is wrong.

Apple is going to do what Apple is going to do, and when all available information from history and current sources indicate that that is what they're going to do, then that is the only reasonable perspective. Saying, "Nah, what if this" is not interesting to me, and not worth taking seriously. I think people should recognize the difference in value between what logic says is going to happen and what they come up with on their own, and expect it to be received accordingly.

Most people on this forum like discussing and tossing around ideas (which is the whole point of a forum) but you apparently do not.

Discussing ideas does not mean coming up with alternative options that have no chance of being possible and then treating them as if they are. Again it is about applying appropriate amounts of consideration to a perspective. It is inappropriate to expect a conversation to be taken seriously when it follows the tone of, "Well, that may be the thing they do every single time and have never deviated from and never would for any conceivable reason, but I think it would cool if they did this completely opposite thing, so let's talk about that as if it has just as great a chance of happening". No.

If you make more of an effort to outline your opinions and be open minded (or at least maintain your positions and debate instead of trying to shut down discussion), people would be much more welcoming. Food for thought.

People don't like being disagreed with, or told that they're wrong. Especially when they are wrong. And until they are definitively wrong (e.g. after a product is released, or tested, etc.), they fight to be considered as possibly right, even when they are only possibly right in the sense that aliens could appear tomorrow to deliver the new MBP. Sure, it's possible.

I'm more than happy to have civil conversation, but I'm not going to take seriously ideas that have no chance of happening. I think it is more than a little unfair to expect that.

 

[bradl]

Apple is going to do what Apple is going to do, and when all available information from history and current sources indicate that that is what they're going to do, then that is the only reasonable perspective. Saying, "Nah, what if this" is not interesting to me, and not worth taking seriously. I think people should recognize the difference in value between what logic says is going to happen and what they come up with on their own, and expect it to be received accordingly.



Discussing ideas does not mean coming up with alternative options that have no chance of being possible and then treating them as if they are. Again it is about applying appropriate amounts of consideration to a perspective. It is inappropriate to expect a conversation to be taken seriously when it follows the tone of, "Well, that may be the thing they do every single time and have never deviated from and never would for any conceivable reason, but I think it would cool if they did this completely opposite thing, so let's talk about that as if it has just as great a chance of happening". No.


People don't like being disagreed with, or told that they're wrong. Especially when they are wrong. And until they are definitively wrong (e.g. after a product is released, or tested, etc.), they fight to be considered as possibly right, even when they are only possibly right in the sense that aliens could appear tomorrow to deliver the new MBP. Sure, it's possible.

I'm more than happy to have civil conversation, but I'm not going to take seriously ideas that have no chance of happening. I think it is more than a little unfair to expect that.

Your problem: You do not have any idea of what has a chance of happening or not happening, so you are already coming in to any conversation - civil or otherwise - with flawed logic. That was pointed out to you in various arguments in PRSI, and apparently that type of thinking still carries over to the rest of the forum.

Again, you are proving the point that was mentioned above, and the continuation of what you are doing further proves that point and exposes the flawed logic of any bias you bring into any argument on this or any other forum.

BL.

 

[Lemon Olive]

Your problem: You do not have any idea of what has a chance of happening or not happening, so you are already coming in to any conversation - civil or otherwise - with flawed logic. That was pointed out to you in various arguments in PRSI, and apparently that type of thinking still carries over to the rest of the forum.

Again, you are proving the point that was mentioned above, and the continuation of what you are doing further proves that point and exposes the flawed logic of any bias you bring into any argument on this or any other forum.

BL.

Well, that's simply not true. I know the same things anyone else can know. And there is often more than enough information available to know what is going to happen. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.

 

[bradl]

Well, that's simply not true. I know the same things anyone else can know. And there is often more than enough information available to know what is going to happen. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.

Yet you say that you watch trends and depend on reliable sources, and those reliable sources - and therefore you - are always right. Yet those same "reliable sources" are wrong, leading you to be wrong.. yet you refuse to entertain conversations with other people about things that ideas that have no chance in happening, even when your own predictions and sources have been proven to not happen. You can't have that both ways, especially with not even wanting to entertain a conversation about them, let alone wanting to outline what you think will happen and why it will happen.

You can't have it both ways, and that further goes to not only undermine your opinion in this or any other conversation, but again proves the other posters right in your ability to discuss what may or may not happen.

BL.

 

[transpo1]

Well, that's simply not true. I know the same things anyone else can know. And there is often more than enough information available to know what is going to happen. Pretending otherwise is ridiculous.

”Ridiculous….not worthy of discussion…no chance of happening…logic.”

These are the marks of someone who wants to be right with no further discussion.

Try outlining what you think is going to happen and keep the discussion alive instead of trying to shut it down and be right every time.

Please help us all understand what you think Apple will do with regards to this topic, once and for all, instead of simply claiming to be “right.”

 

[Fomalhaut]

I'm more than happy to have civil conversation, but I'm not going to take seriously ideas that have no chance of happening. I think it is more than a little unfair to expect that.

completely and totally wrong.

No it doesn’t, and we really need a moratorium on these types of posts.

Just tired of being right amongst a sea of wrong.

That's a really obnoxious way to admit that you're wrong, but I don't expect any better.

You have no idea what you're talking about. Just leave it at that.

It isn't confusing to anyone. Your derangement is beyond help at this point.

There is really nothing to discuss with you. You're more concerned with letters and numbers than you are actual microarchitecture that determine the letters and numbers, and it is so obvious (even to you) how wrong you are, that your posts have become frightened and defensive. It is ok. I assure you. No one cares.

This constant complaint that it is using x chip when y chip is only n months away is ridiculous. Apple doesn't think this way. Only whiny blog followers.

You're literally talking about the problem of letters and numbers bothering people.
You have yet to actually talk about anything even remotely interesting or coherent at all.

FYI - there is no "debate on here on". Just a bunch of nonsense delusion you have conjured and continue to inject into the conversation as if it matters at all.

As I said, you'd rather be agreed with and back-patted, even when you're wrong.

If the above is you having a "civil conversation", then I can't imagine what an argument with you would sound like....

You must be a bundle of laughs to study/work with....

 

[theorist9]

@Lemon Olive. I don't think your views about Apple products are unreasonable. But here's the problem: You are attempting to claim a level of certainty you simply don't have. E.g. you don't say "I think it is highly likely" the MBP will ship with the same core architecture as the M1. Instead, you say "That's exactly what's happening..."

So do you think that the MBP will ship with the same core architecture as the (by then) 1 year old M1? ...

That's exactly what is happening...

But that's not yet known for certain. Thus it is inaccurate to present your current view as "the only reasonable perspective."

It's possible the core architecture of the new MBP chips will be different. Indeed, on May 18, 2021 (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/rumored-pro-chip.2296634/?post=29901708#post-29901708), in the thread discussing the new MBP chip, you said exactly that:

Based on all available evidence, the Lemon Olive of July 12 knows it's simply obvious that the MBP chip will have the same core architechture as the M1. But that same evidence was present on May 18—there's been no new evidence since then (rumors yes; evidence, no). Given this, would the Lemon Olive of July 12 like to tell the Lemon Olive of May 18 that the analysis he did at that time was "ridiculous", adding he "has no knowlege of the subject" and tends to "throw around uninformed opinions"? [These are all quotes from you.]

For good measure, I suppose the Lemon Olive of July 12 could also tell the Lemon Olive of May 18 that "As much as you may want the internet to be a place where all ridiculous opinions are given equal standing, it isn't". [Another quote from you.]

I wouldn't say those things to the Lemon Olive of May 18, but it seems, with your absolutist positions, that you would.

 

[Fomalhaut]

@Lemon Olive. I don't think your views about Apple products are unreasonable. But here's the problem: You are attempting to claim a level of certainty you simply don't have. E.g. you don't say "I think it is highly likely" the MBP will ship with the same core architecture as the M1. Instead, you say "That's exactly what's happening..."

But that's not yet known for certain. Thus it is inaccurate to present your current view as "the only reasonable perspective."

It's possible the core architecture of the new MBP chips will be different. Indeed, on May 18, 2021 (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/rumored-pro-chip.2296634/?post=29901708#post-29901708), in the thread discussing the new MBP chip, you said exactly that:



Based on all available evidence, the Lemon Olive of July 12 knows its simply obvious that the MBP chip will have the same core architechture as the M1. But that same evidence was present on May 18—there's been no new evidence since then (rumors yes; evidence, no). Given this, would the Lemon Olive of July 12 like to tell the Lemon Olive of May 18 that the analysis he did at that time was "ridiculous", adding he "has no knowlege of the subject" and tends to "throw around uninformed opinions"? [These are all quotes from you.]

For good measure, I suppose the Lemon Olive of July 12 could also tell the Lemon Olive of May 18 that "As much as you may want the internet to be a place where all ridiculous opinions are given equal standing, it isn't". [Another quote from you.]

I wouldn't say those things to the Lemon Olive of May 18, but it seems, with your absolutist positions, that you would.

This is a perfect response. Calm, measured, reasoned, courteous and referencing historical data. And with a nice "burn" to the argument!

Pretty sure the mods will shut this down soon, so thanks for your contribution.

It would be nice to get it back on-topic though - the rumors we have seen so far point to 3 possible options now:

1) next MBPs will indeed have an M1X with identical core micro-architecture to the M1 - just more performance cores and GPU cores and maybe fewer efficiency cores. This somewhat pessimistic view would be supported by the idea that there is insufficient design commonality or time between the A15 and M1X releases to do both a core architecture upgrade as well as scaling up the M1 to twice its current performance (& even more for the GPU). My possibility "hunch-o-meter" - 50-70% likely

2) Next MBPs SoC have been in development along with the A15 for some time and will be ramping up production a couple months later than the iPhone 13, featuring a larger "M2X" SoC with both new core micro-arch and more cores. I see this as somewhat less likely than option (1) but still possible - assuming we see an A15-based iPhone in September and "M2X" (or whatever it's called) 2-3 months later. 30-50% likely

3) Next MBP SoC is a "process improvement" on the 5nm M1 that lies somewhere between the first 2. This possibility has gained some traction with recent rumors. The would be a sort of M1X+ with may 5-10% IPC improvements over M1 - not to be sneezed at, but less exciting than a 15-30% improvement between A14 & A15 (wild-ass guess in line with recent generational increase for the A-series). 40-70% likely

I only have the same sources as everyone else for these conclusions, i.e. a collection of rumors of varying "quality".

If anyone has any data-points, or engineering knowledge that would favor one of the above, we'd love to see it!

 

[harivyoma]

The day Apple provides a laptop with touchscreen, I will buy. I am sorry.. they are wrong to tell me touch display is not the way I should use. I have ton of applications for touch screen displays.

 

[09872738]

The day Apple provides a laptop with touchscreen, I will buy. I am sorry.. they are wrong to tell me touch display is not the way I should use. I have ton of applications for touch screen displays.

Yeah, well, if they‚d offer touch only Macbooks I‘d never buy a Macbook again

 

[ProfessionalFan]

if they‚d offer touch only Macbooks I‘d never buy a Macbook again

Why would they be touch only? A touch screen MacBook would allow inputs from a mouse and keyboard as well. It'd be an addition, not a replacement.

 

[09872738]

Why would they be touch only? A touch screen MacBook would allow inputs from a mouse and keyboard as well. It'd be an addition, not a replacement.

Yes, sorry. What I was trying to say: if they only offer MBs with touchsceens. Because touchscreens need to offer different surfaces and are more bulky. Problem is those are glossy, glass-like. Inferior quality.

 

[kenaustus]

Looking at the projected changes I wish that the wedge shape was retained, with the "extra space" it gives used for MagSafe, SD Card Slot (which should be a favorite for consumers that are still using cameras), and maybe even selected I/O slots from the MacMini.. That makes it more comfortable for the "consumer" range - where it would be perfect as long as the consumers continually praise the size & speed. And YES, iMac colors would work well.

I've started comparing options for myself and the wife. She Who Must be Obeyed has dan rely generation MBA and it is clearly slowing down. I had an original year for the G5 iMac and, sadly, it died, but I can remember the huge dis-play. I do have an Apple display (20" IIRC) the I could match up with a Mac mini or I could go with another MacBook Pro. Both options work for me. Problems & decisions that will be fun to endure over the next 12 months!

 

[transpo1]

The day Apple provides a laptop with touchscreen, I will buy. I am sorry.. they are wrong to tell me touch display is not the way I should use. I have ton of applications for touch screen displays.

Agreed. 95% of the time I use my iPad Pro on the Magic Keyboard and touch the screen for certain tasks. Why couldn’t I do the same with a MacBook? If they could tweak the form factor, it could be incredibly versatile. Apple says they keep them separate for product integrity reasons (laptops make the best computers and iPads make the best tablets) but I suspect the real reason is market segmentation and the desire to sell both separately to their customers. They don’t ever have to change this habit in my view, just release one ☝️ hybrid device priced high enough that is capable of doing both. Done.