M3 iMac Rant

[SoYoung]

I just ordered a 16/1TB Yellow (nifty color !!!) iMac to replace my perfectly capable 2019 21.5 16GB Intel i9. Hobbyist purely. In reality 8/256 is all one NEEDS if using the beast for eMail and Internet cruising. I get a Veterans Discount (Thank you Apple...) and used that 10% for my upgrades. I wish I had opted for the "base", but it is not available in Yellow. I have ordered, and already received, a color matched USB hub that sports "C" ports, "A" ports and card ports as well as having a base that will accommodate a 2TB NvME drive.

It always make me laugh when someone justify the base model by saying "its perfectly fine for those who just need to check their e mails or browsing the web". The reality is those people who just do this simply use their phone or use a tablet. I think gone are the days where the average grandma buy a whole desktop computer to do this kind of stuff. Not to mention the price is way too high for the base spec model without some obvious omission like the ethernet port that should be a standard for desktop computer. Even consoles like a PS5 or Xbox have a basic ethernet port lol.

And every serious people will tell you that 256GB is simply not enough these days especially for a computer that is made to last for several years to come. Eventually people will have to stock photos, apps, some files here and there, updates etc. 256GB can be topped real fast.

Yes they clearly made the iMac an entry level computer now, but the price don't reflect this. The base configuration is way to basic at a point I can't recommend this even for my dad and just tell him to buy a newer iPad and use a keyboard case if needed.

 

[Gudi]

Yes they clearly made the iMac an entry level computer now, but the price don't reflect this. The base configuration is way to basic at a point I can't recommend this even for my dad and just tell him to buy a newer iPad and use a keyboard case if needed.

$1,199 iPad Pro M2 (12.9-inch, 256GB, WiFi)
$79 Apple Pencil (USB-C)
$349 Apple Magic Keyboard
= $1,627 + tax

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

Yes they clearly made the iMac an entry level computer now, but the price don't reflect this

Well, if we look at iMac prices from 20 years ago, we'll find that the base spec G4 iMac (Sept 2003) was £999. With inflation, that's equivalent to £1746. I bought my first Mac, an Indigo G3 DV+ in the summer of 2000, and that cost me £799, so £1450 in today's money. The base model was £699, so £1270. The 2021 M1 iMac base model was £1249, so I'd say about right if you consider inflation. So the current £1399 for the base M3 iMac is inline with price inflation too, perhaps a teeny bit steeper than it should be tbh. £1299 would have been a better price. That is the price for an 'entry level' Mac desktop computer. Also worth noting that original iMac prices were actually higher in 1998 than in 2000 or 2003. The original US selling price was $1299 in 1998, which apparently was equivalent to $2332 in 2022. So your claim doesn't really stack up tbh.

 

[kagharaht]

Way back buying Macintosh Plus then SE, 1986-87 with double Floppy and external SCSI HD. I think that came close to $4500.00 or so. Maybe a little less. If memory serves me right. So buying an iMac M3 today.
Apple M3 chip with 8‑core CPU with 4 performance cores and 4 efficiency cores, 10‑core GPU, and 16‑core Neural Engine
2TB SSD storage
24GB unified memory
Should be about $3,004.66 with Tax in my location. Looks like a good deal to me.

 

[BeatCrazy]

It always make me laugh when someone justify the base model by saying "its perfectly fine for those who just need to check their e mails or browsing the web". The reality is those people who just do this simply use their phone or use a tablet. I think gone are the days where the average grandma buy a whole desktop computer to do this kind of stuff. Not to mention the price is way too high for the base spec model without some obvious omission like the ethernet port that should be a standard for desktop computer. Even consoles like a PS5 or Xbox have a basic ethernet port lol.

And every serious people will tell you that 256GB is simply not enough these days especially for a computer that is made to last for several years to come. Eventually people will have to stock photos, apps, some files here and there, updates etc. 256GB can be topped real fast.

Yes they clearly made the iMac an entry level computer now, but the price don't reflect this. The base configuration is way to basic at a point I can't recommend this even for my dad and just tell him to buy a newer iPad and use a keyboard case if needed.

Apple knows exactly how many people on the low-end (read, Intel) iMacs use the Ethernet port. If it was a huge percentage, they would have included it on the base models. But it's not! Because Wi-Fi.

Also, Apple has zero motivation to bump up base storage >256GB for the entry level. Because iCloud!

 

[Mr.Fox]

Another calculator for 1299 bucks

 

[Gudi]

Apple knows exactly how many people on the low-end (read, Intel) iMacs use the Ethernet port. If it was a huge percentage, they would have included it on the base models. But it's not! Because Wi-Fi.

MacBooks have no Ethernet port and therefore iMacs don’t necessarily need them either. It’s probably indeed quite a little bit cheaper to build a power-only cable without data transfer and that’s why a simple $30 upgrade on the base configuration buys you the feature. They could’ve used the Ethernet port to force sales of the mid-tier iMac, but they didn’t.

 

[BeatCrazy]

It’s probably indeed quite a little bit cheaper to build a power-only cable without data transfer and that’s why a simple $30 upgrade on the base configuration buys you the feature. They could’ve used the Ethernet port to force sales of the mid-tier iMac, but they didn’t.

Indeed. A (very reasonable) $30 up charge for those who need it. Yet still people moan.

 

[FreakinEurekan]

It always make me laugh when someone justify the base model by saying "its perfectly fine for those who just need to check their e mails or browsing the web". The reality is those people who just do this simply use their phone or use a tablet. I think gone are the days where the average grandma buy a whole desktop computer to do this kind of stuff. Not to mention the price is way too high for the base spec model without some obvious omission like the ethernet port that should be a standard for desktop computer. Even consoles like a PS5 or Xbox have a basic ethernet port lol.

And every serious people will tell you that 256GB is simply not enough these days especially for a computer that is made to last for several years to come. Eventually people will have to stock photos, apps, some files here and there, updates etc. 256GB can be topped real fast.

Yes they clearly made the iMac an entry level computer now, but the price don't reflect this. The base configuration is way to basic at a point I can't recommend this even for my dad and just tell him to buy a newer iPad and use a keyboard case if needed.

I consider myself a “serious” person and 256GB is plenty for me, I seldom top half that on my computers. And I haven’t used Ethernet in years.

Of course I’m not too cheap to pony up a few bucks a month for iCloud, which certainly helps.

The vast majority of users unbox their Mac, plug in the power, and are done. Very, very few use Ethernet or external storage or extra displays or peripherals of any kind. For a significant percentage of those users, a base config is fine.

If you find yourself saying, “in this day and age a base config oughta include” whatever… then you’re not a base config user. Get over it.

 

[Gudi]

The vast majority of users unbox their Mac, plug in the power, and are done. Very, very few use Ethernet or external storage or extra displays or peripherals of any kind. For a significant percentage of those users, a base config is fine.

I'd bet money that the vast majority of users on Mac and PC use some kind of external storage, regardless of how much internal storage they have. One shouldn't assume that the average user is considerably dumber than oneself.

 

[FreakinEurekan]

I'd bet money that the vast majority of users on Mac and PC use some kind of external storage, regardless of how much internal storage they have. One shouldn't assume that the average user is considerably dumber than oneself.

You’d lose.

 

[Gudi]

You’d lose.

So all the electronics markets with their shelves full of external HDDs, SSDs and USB sticks never sold anything to the average user?

 

[2fx1989]

As usual with a new Apple product release, there's so much whinging and whining about the price.
Apple is not forcing anyone anywhere to buy any of their products. If you can't afford their product then buy a PC or other equivalent product. I'd love to buy a brand new Golf GTI but I can't afford it so I drive a used older normal VW Golf and guess what... my life is not ruined by this and in the end the normal VW Golf is a great car and I love driving it. I think modern consumers (especially tech consumers) have become very greedy and entitled and feel they have a right to own what they want. Like I said, if you can't afford it or if you think it's overpriced then don't buy it. Why can't people just be happy with what they can afford and enjoy it?

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

You’d lose.

I really don't think so. See Gudi's post above. Plus; increasing numbers of people are now using cloud-based storage services. I can't imagine a working environment that doesn't use some kind of data back-up system. Anecdotally, pretty much everyone I know uses some form of external or cloud-based storage.

 

[2fx1989]

Also I was in a similar situation as I had used a 2009 iMac 24 inch for 12 years and I loved it but it was finally too old for what I needed so after the M1 release I waited for what I hoped was going to be the Apple Silicon equivalent of the 27 inch iMac and I was disappointed when they only released the 24 inch M1 iMac. So I had to make a list of the things I wanted most form my new iMac like a 27 inch Retina display and Bootcamp (I'm a casual gamer) so I bought a 2020 27 inch iMac i7. Even though I knew that the Intel processor was inferior to the M1 for lots of day to day tasks, it's still plenty of power for what I want like a reasonably large Photos library and just general day to day apps. The screen is gorgeous and I love having Bootcamp because the beauty of Intel chips in Macs is that you can game on your lovely slim iMac and not have to get a separate ugly loud PC box that takes up space for just a few hours a gaming a week.
So I do understand the OPs disappointment as I had it too but I've been enjoying my Intel iMac for a while now and have no regrets

 

[FreakinEurekan]

I really don't think so. See Gudi's post above. Plus; increasing numbers of people are now using cloud-based storage services. I can't imagine a working environment that doesn't use some kind of data back-up system. Anecdotally, pretty much everyone I know uses some form of external or cloud-based storage.

Sure, cloud-based. I have iCloud plus a cloud backup.

Of course, most “working environments” would use a network backup, there’s no need to plug in peripherals for that - and it’d be counterproductive from a data management and security perspective. But businesses buy what they need, they don’t bother with the whinging and hand-wringing going on here.

PERSONAL buyers (for the most part) don’t back up their @#$& at all. They often use iCloud or DropBox or OneDrive to expand their storage, but that’s not a backup. They just go on “a wing & a prayer.” Or the ones who are SERIOUS about backup (like me) use a cloud or network backup device because they know that if you have to plug in to back up, backups will become less frequent (talking laptops at that point; of course you could plug a Time Machine drive into an iMac or Mac mini and just leave it there.)

But, whether plugging in or using a network or cloud drive - the most basic Macs support that, so it’s not really relevant to the discussion.

 

[Racineur]

I still think intel based macs were better machines than M-series Macs. Those machine were more complete with the possibility of boot camp and was more powerful with dedicated graphic card, ability to add ram by ourselves etc.

Nowadays I have the impression Macs computer are targeted towards creators and photo/video editors more than ever or for those who just want a simple computer for their daily workflow. When the time will come when I'll have to change my computer, I'll probably go back to the PC world. The way mac computers are going isn't what I needed anymore.

Have the same iMac and still has very very little complain to do. My iMac is even older (2013) with 24g RAM, internal FD and external SSD. Mostly I miss being able to move to any macOS above Catalina. I always wonder if it's a big deal.

 

[Fedsbackhand]

I'm still running my late 2009 with 12GB but have now "upgraded" with some more RAM so will max out at 16 later this week. Switched out the HD for SSD a few years back. Not had problems using Affinity, InDesign, etc.

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

Sure, cloud-based. I have iCloud plus a cloud backup.

Of course, most “working environments” would use a network backup, there’s no need to plug in peripherals for that - and it’d be counterproductive from a data management and security perspective. But businesses buy what they need, they don’t bother with the whinging and hand-wringing going on here.

PERSONAL buyers (for the most part) don’t back up their @#$& at all. They often use iCloud or DropBox or OneDrive to expand their storage, but that’s not a backup. They just go on “a wing & a prayer.” Or the ones who are SERIOUS about backup (like me) use a cloud or network backup device because they know that if you have to plug in to back up, backups will become less frequent (talking laptops at that point; of course you could plug a Time Machine drive into an iMac or Mac mini and just leave it there.)

But, whether plugging in or using a network or cloud drive - the most basic Macs support that, so it’s not really relevant to the discussion.

You're making massive assumptions, yet showing no evidence to back up your claims. On one hand, you're saying people DO use backups, on the other, you're making a bold claim that "PERSONAL buyers (for the most part) don’t back up their @#$& at all". I mean, which is it? 🤷‍♂️

You're claiming Gudi would lose such a bet. I'm not so sure. I'm not claiming the following is 'evidence', but it's some information that suggests more people ARE backing up their data anyway:

Survey Asks: How Often Do People Backup Their Computers?

There are a lot of things that get in the way of backing up: managing a household, job(s), taking care of children, travel, and social activities.

www.backblaze.com

Nearly all consumers are backing up their computers, but data loss is here to stay - Help Net Security

Despite increasingly backing up, 65.1% of consumers lost data as a result of an accidental deletion, hardware failure or software problem.

www.helpnetsecurity.com

U.S. computer owners: data backup frequency 2018| Statista

The figure shows the frequency of data backups among adult computer owners in the United States in 2008 and 2018.

www.statista.com

Given those surveys are a few years old now, and taking into account the trend, I'd wager that even more people are backing their stuff up now than 4-5 years ago. So I'd say Gudi's money would be pretty safe.

 

[hans1972]

I'd bet money that the vast majority of users on Mac and PC use some kind of external storage, regardless of how much internal storage they have. One shouldn't assume that the average user is considerably dumber than oneself.

They use cloud or streaming services so they don't have to have everything local.

Most non-technical people I know who uses a Mac doesn't use any external storage directly connected to a Mac. A few of them used to with Time Machine, but after the prevalence of cloud services they even stopped doing that, even though iCloud isn't an replacement for Time Machine.

My girlfriend's children (around 20) and my sister child (20+) have never owned an external HDD or SSD. Or thumb drive.

My girlfriend's youngest daughter didn't even know what Lightning was until a week ago and she has been using iPhones since iPhone 5.

 

[Abdichoudxyz]

They use cloud or streaming services so they don't have to have everything local.

Most non-technical people I know who uses a Mac doesn't use any external storage directly connected to a Mac. A few of them used to with Time Machine, but after the prevalence of cloud services they even stopped doing that, even though iCloud isn't an replacement for Time Machine.

My girlfriend's children (around 20) and my sister child (20+) have never owned an external HDD or SSD. Or thumb drive.

My girlfriend's youngest daughter didn't even know what Lightning was until a week ago and she has been using iPhones since iPhone 5.

'External storage' simply means storage that is external. Regardless of method of connection. A cloud based storage service is just as 'external' as a USB thumb drive.

Most non-technical people I know who uses a Mac doesn't use any external storage directly connected to a Mac

The problem with using anecdotes is that it only tells YOUR story, not the WHOLE story. I accept this myself; as I've mentioned above, my experience is different to yours. That doesn't mean either of us is wrong, it just means we have different experiences. And as you suggest yourself, the people you know use cloud-based external storage systems. Those systems will themselves use HDDS, most likely. So Gudi's Wager™ still stands up.

 

[Gudi]

My girlfriend's children (around 20) and my sister child (20+) have never owned an external HDD or SSD. Or thumb drive.

But we’re talking about actual Mac users, not the smartphone generation who never saw a file system.

 

[skottichan]

But we’re talking about actual Mac users, not the smartphone generation who never saw a file system.

Okay, so my parents (67 medical field, 74 electrical engineer) both are computer literate, have a couple thumbdrives for installers but no external drives. Everything is in iCloud for them.

Hell, I'm 40-something and the vast majority of my stuff is on DropBox and iCloud, and I used to be the Queen of Externals. The only externals I use anymore are; a network drive for Time Machine, the media NAS and the thumb drives I use for my resin printers.

I'd mention my wife, but she's part of the "Smartphone generation" at 30.


Edit: full transparency, we're all Mac users. Parents have upgraded their 2017 27" i5 iMac with a new purple M3, I have a M2 Pro Mini and my wife has her 2014 15" i9 MBP.

 

[Gudi]

Okay, so my parents (67 medical field, 74 electrical engineer) both are computer literate, have a couple thumbdrives for installers but no external drives. Everything is in iCloud for them.

Hell, I'm 40-something and the vast majority of my stuff is on DropBox and iCloud, and I used to be the Queen of Externals. The only externals I use anymore are; a network drive for Time Machine, the media NAS and the thumb drives I use for my resin printers.

So all Mac users in your family use external storage. 👍

Now let’s check for Ethernet, extra displays and any kind of peripherals! Can you honestly say that you never use the USB ports at the back of your Mac?

Two ports are probably enough most of the time for most people, but four are definitely not excessive connectivity, which the average user will never make use of.

 

[Adelphos33]

But we’re talking about actual Mac users, not the smartphone generation who never saw a file system.

The vast majority of Mac users came to the platform as iPhone users that then bought Macbooks…

I for one have never used an external SSD, never used any port on a MacBook outside of a USB A or C port, etc. I have owned Macs for the last 10 years or so, largely laptops. I work every day in a financial firm office on two 27” screens on Windows. At home, I remote in on my 24” iMac. Super powerful for all my needs. The ports on my iMac are used for charging (mainly Apple Watches and iPhones). I do have flash drives I have been given (documents, etc) but those are just files