M4 32GB or M4 Pro with faster 24GB?

[Populus]

Hello.

Im starting to guess what’s a better future proof machine, as I plan to use it for the next 8years.

An upgraded M4 mini with 32GB and 1TB is 1.640€, and the base M4 Pro with half the storage, binned SoC and “only” 24GB of much faster RAM is 1.670€, just 30 more euros although I’d likely upgrade the storage to at least 1TB, which would put it at 1.900€.

I mean, almost 2.000€ is A LOT of money for a machine with 24GB of RAM isn’t it? And I’m not sure if staying with 512GB would cut it for me.

Im going to use it mainly for Handbrake so the 8 performance cores would come in handy, but I’m not sure how well does Handbrake parallelize the CPU load. Maybe I’d be better with the M4 SoC? What do you think?

A good move would be waiting for an Amazon deal on the base M4 Pro, despite having only 512GB of storage …

BTW: the M4 being lighter than the M4 Pro (670g vs 730g) and potentially being cooler and quieter is another benefit of getting the M4 instead of the M4 Pro.

EDIT: I have the feeling that many potential 2024 Mac mini buyers will face the same dilemma, so please feel free to use this thread to post your use case or your advice. And if mods want to pin the thread, it could also be useful.

EDIT 2: Personal review after two months of usage.

 

[Beau Slim]

Do we have any indication of SSD performance on the different storage configurations? Might be worth waiting on that data before choosing.

 

[Populus]

At this point, I’m leaning towards the M4 chip with 32GB of RAM.

Sure, Handbrake won’t be as fast, but I have hopes that for everything else, it will be enough. Even for light video editing.

Any other opinion wil be much welcomed

 

[EugW]

I haven't used Handbrake in ages, but does it even need much RAM? I thought all you need is like 8-16 GB. Also, can it even adequately use 8 cores, or 14 cores as it were? I thought not. If it can't use all those cores, then I'd get a M4 with 16-24 GB RAM, 512 GB storage, and external SSD. If it can make use of the extra cores, then M4 Pro with 24 GB RAM, 512 GB storage, and external SSD.

 

[Chancha]

Do we have any indication of SSD performance on the different storage configurations? Might be worth waiting on that data before choosing.

M4 is going to be only two NAND pads no matter what, that's what it has on the board, judging by the 2TB total cap.
M4 Pro will inherit the 8 NAND pads from M2 Pro, also judging from the 8TB option.
The question is if the base model M4 Pro with 512GB, will it use only 2x256GB like the M2 Pro mini, or 4x128GB like the M3 Pro MacBook Pro. Chances are the latter but we need to wait for tests.

 

[EugW]

M4 is going to be only two NAND pads no matter what, that's what it has on the board, judging by the 2TB total cap.
M4 Pro will inherit the 8 NAND pads from M2 Pro, also judging from the 8TB option.
The question is if the base model M4 Pro with 512GB, will it use only 2x256GB like the M2 Pro mini, or 4x128GB like the M3 Pro MacBook Pro. Chances are the latter but we need to wait for tests.

Good point re: chips, but either way it’s not going to affect Handbrske performance.

 

[Populus]

I haven't used Handbrake in ages, but does it even need much RAM? I thought all you need is like 8-16 GB. Also, can it even adequately use 8 cores, or 14 cores as it were? I thought not. If it can't use all those cores, then I'd get a M4 with 16-24 GB RAM, 512 GB storage, and external SSD. If it can make use of the extra cores, then M4 Pro with 24 GB RAM, 512 GB storage, and external SSD.

Thanks for your insight, @EugW

The extra RAM, from 24 to 32GB, I want it for a) future-proof (I know, I know), and b) in case I want to use it for more demanding tasks. Also I don’t like to rely on swapping because I want to keep the SSD health as long as possible. And finally, I’m a pathological multitasker, and I like to have several apps open and Safari with lots (40-50) of tabs.

I guess I’ll have to ask in Handbrake forums whether the extra performance cores on the M4 Pro will be effectively used by the program. For me the ideal setup would be the 1TB/48GB M4 Pro, but that’s whooping 2,360€. And 1) I can’t afford that, or at least I shouldn’t spend that money 2) I don’t have a professional use to justify that level of expense, and 3) even if I buy a powerful machine like this, future base chips will reach that performance level in a few years, so it isn’t a wise investment.

By the way, why do you recommend 512GB Instead of 1TB? I’ve been using a 1TB Mac mini for many years and, even though I never filled it completely, I like to have that headroom just in case (especially looking towards the future years), especially if we take into account that the device where I produce the content that I will later compress/transcode in the mac is a 1TB M2 iPad Pro. Also I’m a bit paranoid about SSD health. And finally, I don’t like to have an SSD constantly plugged in.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Im going to use it mainly for Handbrake so the 8 performance cores would come in handy, but I’m not sure how well does Handbrake parallelize the CPU load. Maybe I’d be better with the M4 SoC? What do you think?

Handbrake scales well up to 6 cores, then after that, returns are not as great, but they are being used. This is highly dependent on settings and codecs used also.

 

[Populus]

Handbrake scales well up to 6 cores, then after that, returns are not as great, but they are being used. This is highly dependent on settings and codecs used also.

Many thanks for that piece of information! Do you have any guess on whether, on a regular M4, Handbrake will mainly use all 6 efficiency cores and won’t barely use the 4 performance cores? Or maybe the machine will prioritize the 4 performance cores over the efficiency cores for CPU intensive tasks?

I’m more and more leaning towards the regular M4 with upgraded storage and RAM… Especially in case that the M5 or M6 comes with more hardware encoding engines such as AV1. Maybe doing a huge investment on an M4 Pro with upgraded storage and RAM is a waste of money for me.

 

[EugW]

Thanks for your insight, @EugW

The extra RAM, from 24 to 32GB, I want it for a) future-proof (I know, I know), and b) in case I want to use it for more demanding tasks. Also I don’t like to rely on swapping because I want to keep the SSD health as long as possible. And finally, I’m a pathological multitasker, and I like to have several apps open and Safari with lots (40-50) of tabs.

I guess I’ll have to ask in Handbrake forums whether the extra performance cores on the M4 Pro will be effectively used by the program. For me the ideal setup would be the 1TB/48GB M4 Pro, but that’s whooping 2,360€. And 1) I can’t afford that, or at least I shouldn’t spend that money 2) I don’t have a professional use to justify that level of expense, and 3) even if I buy a powerful machine like this, future base chips will reach that performance level in a few years, so it isn’t a wise investment.

By the way, why do you recommend 512GB Instead of 1TB? I’ve been using a 1TB Mac mini for many years and, even though I never filled it completely, I like to have that headroom just in case (especially looking towards the future years), especially if we take into account that the device where I produce the content that I will later compress/transcode in the mac is a 1TB M2 iPad Pro. Also I’m a bit paranoid about SSD health. And finally, I don’t like to have an SSD constantly plugged in.

SSD health of Apple OEM SSDs is a non-issue for 99% of the population if they have enough RAM. Even with your described multitasking usage, you are likely not going to have much swap with 24 GB. You may only have some compressed memory, which has no impact on SSD health.

In my case 1 TB storage is either too little or too much. My Photos Library alone is nearly 700 GB. If I put it on the internal drive, then 1 TB is not enough, since I need about another 250 GB. If I put it on an external drive then 1 TB is overkill. 2 TB from Apple costs way too much, but an excellent alternative for many people is to stick with 512 GB internal storage and add a lot more with an external SSD. This is fine for a Mac mini since it’s a desktop. (It’s a different story if it’s a laptop.) This also has the added benefit of saving wear on your internal drive if all your Handbrake exports are to the external SSD. However, if you think 1 TB suits your needs better, then there’s nothing wrong with getting that, esp. if you prefer internal storage over external.

BTW, my wife’s 2017 MacBook Air and my daughter’s 2015 MacBook Pro both came with just 128 GB SSDs. I swapped them out with used Apple OEM Samsung SSDs to bring them to 256 GB years ago and they’re both still totally fine.

 

[Populus]

I want to thank you all for providing your opinion. I’m almost certain to get the base M4 with the upgrades I want/like, instead of an M4 Pro, but I hope this thread helps other people, because I’m pretty sure the M4 with 32GB vs the M4 Pro with 24GB is going to be a recurring topic for this little great machine.

So feel free to post here and use this thread for this particular disjunctive, if you’re facing the same dilemma!

In my case 1 TB storage is either too little or too much. My Photos Library alone is nearly 700 GB. If I put it on the internal drive, then 1 TB is not enough. If I put it on an external drive then 1 TB is overkill. 2 TB from Apple costs way too much, but an excellent alternative for many people is to stick with 512 GB internal storage and add a lot more with an external SSD.

Yes, this is usually a case by case scenario, and I’m almost settled on the idea of having 1TB of storage, for many reasons. For me it is like a base amount of storage, and we still have to see the speeds between the two capacities. But yeah your point is still valid and many people will benefit from it.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

Many thanks for that piece of information! Do you have any guess on whether, on a regular M4, Handbrake will mainly use all 6 efficiency cores and won’t barely use the 4 performance cores? Or maybe the machine will prioritize the 4 performance cores over the efficiency cores for CPU intensive tasks?

No, and I haven't been able to find any information on it either.

I’m more and more leaning towards the regular M4 with upgraded storage and RAM… Especially in case that the M5 or M6 comes with more hardware encoding engines such as AV1. Maybe doing a huge investment on an M4 Pro with upgraded storage and RAM is a waste of money for me.

The general consensus at this point is that Handbrake software encoding produces better quality results, compared to hardware encoding (Which is faster though), so I wouldn't put my bet on that personally. That being said, even if Handbrake is priority, I wouldn't use it as a reason to go for the M4 Pro.

Personally I saturate 6 cores in my 2011 iMac, which is doing more than fine with 8GB RAM, even when I do other things. Handbrake never seems to use more than about 1,1GB RAM, when encoding 1080p content.

 

[Populus]

The general consensus at this point is that Handbrake software encoding produces better quality results, compared to hardware encoding (Which is faster though), so I wouldn't put my bet on that personally. That being said, even if Handbrake is priority, I wouldn't use it as a reason to go for the M4 Pro.

Yep, absolutely. After using both on my ancient 2014 Mac mini and on a borrowed M2 MBA, the software encode looks much better and IIRC, it ends up taking less space than the hardware encoding. And I also agree on the M4 instead of the M4 Pro. Especially given how much powerful is this year’s base SoC.

 

[EugW]

Apple updated the media encoders. I wonder if the hardware encoding quality has been improved compared to the M2 media encoder.

 

[iSuzan]

If you plan to use it 8yrs I would invest in a M4 Pro. Remember you can only have Thunderbolt 5 with the Pro machines.

But the best is to wait for the real tests of real users. Interesting what they say about how silent and cool the machine is ... or not is.

 

[EugW]

If you plan to use it 8yrs I would invest in a M4 Pro. Remember you can only have Thunderbolt 5 with the Pro machines.

But the best is to wait for the real tests of real users. Interesting what they say about how silent and cool the machine is ... or not is.

The new Thunderbolt ports on the M4 Pro offer two advantages:

1) Thunderbolt 5 speed. However, Thunderbolt 4 already offers 3100 MB/s file transfer speeds real world. TB5 offers >6000 MB/s, but it’s a matter of diminishing returns, and it won’t affect Handbrake at all.

2) DisplayPort 2.1. However, DisplayPort 1.4 on the M4 Mac mini already supports 8K 60 Hz. And so does the HDMI 2.1 port.

 

[Populus]

Apple updated the media encoders. I wonder if the hardware encoding quality has been improved compared to the M2 media encoder.

Wow, even the mainstream ones such as the h.264 and h.265 (HEVC)? Interesting.

If you plan to use it 8yrs I would invest in a M4 Pro. Remember you can only have Thunderbolt 5 with the Pro machines.

But the best is to wait for the real tests of real users. Interesting what they say about how silent and cool the machine is ... or not is.

Yeah yeah, the video output ports such as DisplayPort 2.1 are exclusive of the M4 Pro, but honestly, I don’t plan to use more than one single 4k screen plus (occasionally) my 11” M2 iPadPro as a secondary display via SideCar. Also if in the far future I need support for an 8k display, all the Mac minis come with HDMI 2.1 (EDIT: yep, what @EugW said merely seconds before me).

And regarding Thunderbolt 5, honestly, all my Samsung T5 and T7 SSDs max at USB 3.2 gen 2 and I think the Thunderbolt 4 ports will be plenty for the next 5-6 years. And from that point onwards, think it still be enough for me, as I don’t plan on replacing my 1TB T5 or my 2TB & 4TB T7 external Samsung SSDs

 

[Populus]

By the way, here’s an interesting preliminar opinion of Art, a really good reviewer of M series Macs and iPads:

And interestingly, one of the things he points out (minute 13:05) regarding the possible advantage that the 273GB/s bandwidth of the M4 Pro faster RAM compared to the 120 GB/s memory bandwidth on the base M4 or the slightly higher 150GB/s bandwidth on the M3 Pro, is that currently there’s no app/software capable of saturating it, even using simultaneously the CPU, GPU and NPU. So currently it is just a number that we know but with not many implications.

 

[EugW]

Wow, even the mainstream ones such as the h.264 and h.265 (HEVC)? Interesting.

I don’t know what they updated exactly (besides adding AV1 decode support). This is what Apple states for the new media encoder that was introduced with M3:

And, a new media engine now includes support for AV1 decode, providing more efficient and high-quality video experiences from streaming services.

And regarding Thunderbolt 5, honestly, all my Samsung T5 and T7 SSDs max at USB 3.2 gen 2 and I think the Thunderbolt 4 ports will be plenty for the next 5-6 years. And from that point onwards, think it still be enough for me, as I don’t plan on replacing my 1TB T5 or my 2TB & 4TB T7 external Samsung SSDs

I’ve been using a 10 Gbps 2 TB USB 3.2 Gen 2 Samsung T7 Shield, but I plan on replacing it with a 40 Gbps USB 4 external 4 TB SSD (NVMe SSD in USB 4 enclosure). Real world the USB 4 drive should be about 3X the performance. Truthfully I don’t really need the added the performance of USB 4 (much less Thunderbolt 5), but I wanted to get a bigger 4 TB drive so I figured I would go with USB 4 at the same time.

 

[srikat]

To OP: what config did you end up with?

 

[Populus]

To OP: what config did you end up with?

I finally got the M4 Pro with 24GB of RAM. It was the option that was available at the store to pick up. The alternative, the M4 with 32GB of RAM, wasn’t at the store and I would have had to order it online.

I will test it thoroughly during the next two months to see if the 24GB of RAM behave correctly and are plenty for my usage. If not, I will return it and order the M4 with 32GB.

To be fair, I do think that the regular M4 with 24 or 32GB would be the best purchase decision, now that I’m watching benchmarks. But I didn't want to order it and wait for it.

 

[galad]

HandBrake isn't limited to 6 cores. It can scale quite well, especially when encoding 1080p and 4k, so more cores are better than 32 GB of RAM.

The only encoder that requires more RAM is SVT-AV1 at 4k, but 24 GB will be more than enough.

 

[srikat]

I finally got the M4 Pro with 24GB of RAM. It was the option that was available at the store to pick up. The alternative, the M4 with 32GB of RAM, wasn’t at the store and I would have had to order it online.

I will test it thoroughly during the next two months to see if the 24GB of RAM behave correctly and are plenty for my usage. If not, I will return it and order the M4 with 32GB.

To be fair, I do think that the regular M4 with 24 or 32GB would be the best purchase decision, now that I’m watching benchmarks. But I didn't want to order it and wait for it.

Here are a couple of reviews of your config:

Apple Mac mini (2024, M4 Pro)

Meet the mightiest mini desktop—period

au.pcmag.com

 

[dhy8386]

Im going to use it mainly for Handbrake so the 8 performance cores would come in handy, but I’m not sure how well does Handbrake parallelize the CPU load. Maybe I’d be better with the M4 SoC? What do you think?

I got he new M4 Pro 12 core with 24gb ram. Depending on the encoder, gains are signifi ant over my M1.

On a 4K Remux of Avatar 2, using x265 10
Bit encoder, FPS more than double M1. Encode times cut in half. I had the M4 on high performance Which is a new setting to allow fans to spin faster to minimize thermal throttling. Every single core was stressed. CPU usage showing 1000%+. That said, using videotoolbox which uses a separate chip on SOC didn’t have same performance gains. Was maybe 25% better than M1. CPU usage was only 250% which makes sense given the offload.

I very happy with it however I don’t traditionally use software encoding. So performance gains aren’t as dramatic for me. But I am running 20 docker containers and typically have 4/5 Plex streams being used at night my family so appreciate how much of a beast this thing is.

With regards to your RAM question, even with the above usage I don’t ever approach the limits of what’s being used. So imo 24gb plenty.

 

[T'hain Esh Kelch]

I had the M4 on high performance Which is a new setting to allow fans to spin faster to minimize thermal throttling. Every single core was stressed. CPU usage showing 1000%+. That said, using videotoolbox which uses a separate chip on SOC didn’t have same performance gains. Was maybe 25% better than M1. CPU usage was only 250% which makes sense given the offload.

Do you see much gains from the Performance mode, compared to normal settings, when encoding? Have you done a direct comparison? Based on what I have read so far, there's not much to gain from the setting other than significant increases in power usage, and video encoding would be one of the best indicators.